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Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset

Sir according to me the state and religion cannot be separated specially when you are living in a country which was created in the name of Religion.

The Australian parliament which is an arrant secular democracy starts its proceedings with the reciting of Bible.

Its just a small example and you know how things are like in pakistan don't you , changing people's mindset is a one hell of task.

We cannot just transform the whole nation from one mindset to another within few months it wont work , considering that Pakistanis though part time Muslims are still very emotional about their religious sentiments and they believe that State and Religion cannot be separated.

Current Pakistani youth wont let it happen either , provided the mullah factor will make it even tough , the country will yet again fell into some deep trouble because of it.

Your commentary although obviously relevant does not answer my specific questions. I'll reserve my remarks on this commentary for later. I happen to be working on a study of separation of religion and state (to what extent?) and liberal interpretations or religio-political ideology in Muslim majority nations for a personal understanding.

I dont know sir that what was your youth time in Pakistan but my time spent in Pakistan which is almost 16 years gives me a flavor of religious sentiments and people's wishes of the Govt to be a guardian Their religion.

I'm 21 and studying in the US. The UN defines youth as "those persons between the ages of 15 and 24 years". I'm still in the youth period.

This is why i am saying again that Secularism which is a total separation of religion from state and a Fanatic and Radical Islamic laws are a Big no no.

While the realist demand in our case can never be for true separation of religion and state, it does not matter whether daily proceedings of our parliament start with recitations of the Quran, whether legislators use religious references in their speeches for this is their personal matter. Religion is a major force in our region and it cannot be somehow removed from our society altogether. There is hardly any such any demand nor has anybody ever seen it as practical. I was trying to establish that our social values dictated our attitudes for long and establishment of religion as a state functionary has caused friction in the governance process besides allowing for victimization of minorities and use for vendetta as well. If our cultural values which were in line with religious demands dictated our social values, there was and is no need for the shadow of Zia to hang over us.
 
I am 100% agreed with Emo Girl. and would like say one ward from A person who was 1400 years ago become the victim of, Which i would like to say terrorism sponsor by state.

" People like Yazed is harming Islam by putting the fake and incorrect teaching of Islam in the mind of people by the so called Allems,Mufti, Hafiz Al Quran, and heroes of Islam(Sponcer by state) fore to their(Yazedi) mindset of Islam. To make Islam beautiful need blood of those who love Islam and it will be a long Process may be the Centuries required but I Can Guarantee you that these Yazedi will not be Tolerated longer and will be brought to Justice and their Names will be written in dark memories"

These word was given before leaving Madinah.

And i would like to say Name of Imam Hussain (AS) is still a Light to those who Love Islam and who knows the meaning of Islam. and name of Yazed to remind these terrorist that their days will be end soon.

God Said In Quran" Lantullah he Ala Koom-az-Zalameen"
 
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I think this article needs a thread, the matter of fact is that Pakistanis are still confused on the identity of enemy which lies within ourselves & are unable to decide their real enemy out of shear mentality of superiority in case of religion & conspiracy theories which are been thrown at us about US/West/Zionists :blah::blah:
people see a conspiracy against Islam & Pakistan almost every where!!!

Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset​

As I write these sentences, the details of the most shameful attack on thereligious sites of Ahmedis in Lahore are unfolding. However, this is not new as Pakistan has been the victim of this brazen behavior repeatedly. The thirty years of state sponsored “true” Islam is showing its colors. In Pakistan all the minorities are constantly harassed and state’s protection has often proved completely ineffective when a serious attack occurs. Although the counterargument can also be made that state is not also able to protect even when Muslims are attacked.

In case of Ahmedis it is a well known fact that they have been victims of state induced discrimination also apart from being openly hated by the public. In fact even today as this most in human barbarity was unfolding I had the opportunity to actually hear people in my office saying that though terrorism is bad Ahmedis deserved it. Muslims are an extremely intolerant group and yet extremely sensitive when it comes to their own religious sensitivities. And when such minorities are under attack the state protection has often been particularly inadequate and public condemnation virtually absent. After all we all remember Gojra where the government was completely unable to provide protection to the Christians when attackers attacked their houses and literally burnt people alive. In that incidence, there was no “sudden’ attack but mob actually first assembled after being provoked by the religious clergy and then systematically executed the attack. But even much more horrific was the aftermath where instead of widespread condemnation, the public response was apologetic. That incidence was not a political failure alone. It was national shame and depicted weakness at every level of our society’s moral fabric.

What is really dangerous is the complete inability of the media as well as general public to even effectively condemn, let alone stop, horrific acts like religious violence and even general terrorism. The aftermaths of every shameless incidence of hate filled religious bigotry as well as terrorism follows more or less similar pattern. A few sporadic and weak protests are raised while the majority either calls it a grand conspiracy of the West to defame Islam or gives even more hypocritical apologetic defense. Ours is a shallow society which is ready to get enraged over cartoons and Facebook but completely impotent when something far more sinister happens. Killing of so many innocent people should draw far more condemnation and yet all we do is to knit conspiracy theories. In fact our intellectual abilities are generally geared towards knitting conspiracy theories and providing apologetic defense to monsters like Taliban.

In my opinion the failure to condemn and criticize is even more horrifying than the actual tragedy because this insensitivity provides the conducive environment for future sustenance of this hate filled behavior. Our society features rabble rousers and bigots like Zaid Hamids and Dr. Amir Liaqat as the media stars who are actually patronized by mainstream media and promoted by the corporate sector through advertisements. Such characters have openly incited hatred against the Ahmedi community and have also given apologetic defense to terrorism. In civilized countries such people are hated and in our side these are actually adulated. It is this shameless insensitivity, not the grand conspiracies of the West, which breeds terrorism and religious bigotry.

There will be people who would say that in Pakistan even the Muslims are target of terrorism and so therefore this time reference to religious bigotry should not be made. After all, the incident is likely to have been carried out by Pakistani Taliban who have also conducted suicide attacks in the Sunni majority areas. MY RESPONSE WOULD BE THAT WE ARE NOT EVEN ABLE TO CONDEMN THESE MONSTERS WHEN THEY ATTACK US. Therefore to expect that our public will condemn when they attack minorities is actually expecting too much and in fact I know that when it comes to minorities like Ahmedis and Shias, actually such incidences are not even construed as something wrong. Due to hatred against the minorities such incidence would actually find little to no condemnation.

And even when such attacks are conducted against the general public they are conveniently blamed on the grand conspiracy of USA. THE CENTRAL ISSUE IS OF OUR MINDSET WHICH IS DELUSIONAL AND HAS BEEN NURTURED THROUGH ISLAMIC MYTHOLOGY ACCORDING TO WHICH MUSLIMS ARE SUPERIOR IN CALIBRE AS WELL AS VIRTUE AND THEREFORE CANNOT INDULGE IN ANYTHING SINISTER LIKE TERRORISM. In Pakistan, this pattern of thinking is also supplemented by a strong dose of ultra nationalism which assumes Pakistan with its nuclear arsenal to be spearheading the revival of the lost glory of Islam. Primarily this mindset is outward looking and assumes that due to Pakistan’s “supreme” importance in the above context, all the non Muslim forces are jealous and therefore trying to create a conducive environment to purge our nuclear arsenal through planting extremism. According to this delusional mindset, the key conspirator is USA which due to its Jewish appeasement and own insecurities against resurgence of glorious Islam is trying to destabilize Pakistan to find an excuse to purge its nuclear arsenal. INHERENTLY RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY IS ALSO STRONGLY IMBEDDED IN THIS MINDSET BECAUSE OF ASSUMED SUPERIORITY OF “PURE” MUSLIMS AND DEEP SUSPICION OF NON MUSLIMS. Consequently even those sects such as Ahmedis who identify themselves as Muslims are often called agents planted by the British and later on USA to wreck havoc in the Islamic world’s “unity”. Hatred against non Muslims and conspiracy theories become the main paradigm through which we see the world.

This mindset has become particularly vigorous after 9/11. Throughout the post 9/11 period, I have just listened to non sense conspiracy theories and complete irrational apologetic defense. Everything is generally blamed on USA and in this process we end up strengthening dark nihilist forces of terrorism and religious extremism. In fact I remember when these monsters attacked Islamic International University, after two day students were protesting not against Taliban but against Kerry Luger bill!

In near past, just because USA was forcing us to take a timely action against the militants, we were all against it because in our heads it was against us and our “own” people. Those delays eventually enabled the militants to have a complete foothold in places like Swat. When news regarding the Taliban atrocities started to emerge, we refused to believe them because some of the western channels were also airing them. As late as 2009, when flogging video went on air, instead of being appalled, the entire media thrust was on proving that it was a fake. It had to be propaganda against Islam and us. The Nazam-e Adl deal was virtually endorsed by our media and a large section of sensation loving romantic nationalist urban middleclass. And when ANP successfully maneuvered the situation to expose that militants were indeed animals, almost overnight they became bad Taliban who had been created by USA. We conveniently overlooked the fact that in fact USA had been pressurizing us to take action earlier and only a few days before we were reacting violently to opposition to Nazam-e-Adl by calling it interference in our internal affairs. And not surprisingly when reality dawned about Taliban by virtue of a live speech of Sufi Muhammad, we were quick to point out to the possibility of emergence of “Bad” Taliban. In this parallel universe every fact had to be spun to be consistent with the original premise.

Our irrational and hypocritical hatred of the West which is characterized by chanting slogans against them while begging for their visas and foreign aid has now reached such gigantic proportions that even when clearer evidence is presented in front of our eyes about what creed of people Taliban are, we are completely unable to condemn them. Instead we are either calling barbarism a reaction or trying to bifurcate them into good and bad Taliban. A “strategic” asset, created by our own armed forces and defended to madness by our own media, is now believed to be partially bought over by USA. USA the devil becomes our sole point and in that hatred we completely overlook where we are heading. As blood litters our streets, rather than collectively denouncing the ideology of hate and barbarism, our sole reaction is pointing to the same premise in one way or the other. This sole reaction shows the depleted soul of the nation.

We are ready to hold rallies when a few are killed due to a drone attack but speechless when literally hundreds are killed by the Taliban monsters. Rather than trying to fight the miserable creed of monsters we are coming up with new spins of national sovereignty, reaction to US policies, nuclear arsenal, grand conspiracy of US and God knows what else. Consequently, it is becoming exceptionally difficult for the government to muster the political will to sustain this fight which is no longer physical. The hatred is misplaced, the enemy is within, but we are totally oblivious to it and in the process strengthening the forces of extremism through appeasement, apologetic defense or outright denial

Right now it has to be understood that despite differences, at least in one critical aspect, USA’s and our interests are common: we face a common enemy. And yet just because they are saying it, we are opposing it and in the process treading on a self destructive path. Our every new interpretation is contradictory to the previous one, but it does not matter; because irrational instincts are driving our introspection. It stretches beyond that. Anyone who opposes Taliban vehemently and does not buy these wild theories is labeled as an unpatriotic, liberal elitist or someone who is a sellout.

The effects of this mindset, if unchecked, will go beyond the current battle against Taliban. As the anti US rhetoric is whipped into frenzy and becomes a popular rallying point, the politics will no longer be an art of identifying core issues and striving to address them but merely expanding the borders of this parallel universe

Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset Pak Tea House

I must tell you emo!!!! You are only promoting Islam as a black religion... These people (Author) have only one agenda and that is bashing Islam.. Just give you an example.

Watch this video! and notice how they are bashing Islam.

but you know what!!!!! this video proved out as a fake video. the girl in this video was paid for this drama.. Read this
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your fighting a lone battle Emo lol

A hard fight but not alone and a worth while fight. There will always be some that no matter what will not listen but perhaps some will stop and think that there are ways things could be better.

Continuing down the path that lead to the tragedy in Lahore is simply not an option for Pakistan.

My deepest thanks to the origional author for the article, to Emo for sharing it with us and for the many who contibuted in a positive way to the disccusion.
 
Link: - Intolerance and her children

Intolerance and her children

Hit and run

Monday, May 31, 2010
Shakir Husain

I couldn’t bring myself to write my column last week because of the rage I felt at our government for censoring the Internet. It wasn’t that blocking Facebook or YouTube had brought life to an end but the sheer stupidity of the exercise coupled with the wider implications of censorship for the citizens of this country threw me into a funk. I decided to take a week off, breathe, and write something when I was calmer.

Then Friday happened and 80 Ahmedi worshippers were killed and 120 injured in Lahore as they offered their prayers. The TTP or the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility. The PML-N which has denied the existence of terrorist hotbeds in southern Punjab better wake up from its slumber and do something about them.

Since 2001, 30,000 Pakistani civilians and armed forces personnel have been killed due to terrorist attacks and operations against terrorists – the heaviest price paid by any nation. Yet, we collectively remain in denial about the nature of the very home-grown threat Pakistan faces today. Conspiracy theorists, half-baked “analysts”, the right-wing press, and more dangerously, the politicians within Pakistan continue to perpetuate the “hidden hand” theories along with the “RAW-CIA-Mossad” nexus as reasons for these terrorist attacks and threats.

Rational people froth at the mouth as these people spew off the numerous threats to Pakistan’s very existence. Sure, some of these theories are based on facts, and Pakistan, over the last 60 odd years, has made some international and regional enemies but these have been a result of the foreign policy we have chosen to pursue. If anyone thinks that the Pakistani state is a defenceless lamb they better think again. You reap what you sow, and we have sown the seeds of terror that have come back to haunt and kill us. Ziaul Haq’s children have turned on their masters. It’s official and if you’re in denial you better seek psychiatric help.

In 1829, German writer Heinrich Heine wrote a play called Almansor in which he referred to the burning of the Holy Quran during the Spanish Inquisition and said, “Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings.” The wheel of intolerance has come full circle and we’ve been burning people for a few decades now.

Censorship is nothing new in Pakistan with our lopsided experiments with both dictatorship and democracy. The democrats have treated Pakistan with the same sort of disdain as our dictators. It was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto under whose watch Ahmedis were declared “non-Muslims” at the behest of the religious quartet of the day. Incidentally, Pakistan is the only country in the world where the constitution calls Ahmedis “non-Muslims”. ZAB may not have believed in what he did but he did sow the seeds for Zia’s decade of madness. While there has been no period where dark laws and practices have not been perpetuated upon the people of Pakistan by it’s rulers, Ziaul Haq’s decade was nothing short of disastrous when it came to oppression of voices, people, culture – just about everything. Even after his timely death, Zia’s intolerant children continue to make their mark on the Pakistani society in every way.

By ordering the ban on Facebook, the Lahore High Court directed the PTA to ensure that the site was banned across the country. The PTA, a federal body, not only complied with the provincial court in record time but also decided to block YouTube. Experiments were carried out in blocking Google, Wikipedia, and blackberry services and the list of banned sites swelled to 600 in a few days. We cannot ban terrorist organisations which can operate freely all over the country but the Internet can be shut down within hours. As Google’s CEO Eric Schmidt said, “I’m always suspicious of these broad bans. In every case we looked at, there is an official reason, then another reason. There is an awful lot of political criticism they are blocking at the same time. I am very suspicious here.”

Incidentally, Pakistan was the only Islamic country that decided to block entire sites. Not even the Saudis or Iranians went that route – they quietly blocked specific offending pages which was the smart thing to do. No one thought of the damage we were doing by reacting the way we did. The publicity that the LHC decision and then the actions of the government of Pakistan brought to the obscure “Draw Mohammad Day” was immense. Membership to the group grew after every major network starting reporting on Pakistan’s ban. Yet no Pakistani voice could counter this on the social networking site because we had decided that we would rather not play than engage constructively.

What boggles my mind is that no one filed a petition with the Lahore High Court to change the prejudiced curriculum in government schools which is helping in churning out young people with a narrow mindset and a warped sense of history. What blows my mind is that we can spend millions of dollars on sophisticated filtering technology to police the Internet but a mullah in Swat went on broadcasting his message of hate for years because we didn’t have the jamming technology.

I asked a friend if the government was going to ban books after they had banned social networking sites. His response was that there were no more libraries left so there was nothing to ban anymore. Our intolerance and what is happening in our country is a direct result of our relationship with knowledge and the fact that we remain in denial about history, the world, and our place in it
The writer lives in Karachi. Email: shakir. thenews@gmail.com
 
Sparklingway just hit the ball out of the park with his last post, we seem to have regressed ever-since Zia brought in his laws that were actually initiated by ZAB. Its a shame to see a forward thinking and progressive country fall victim to such a bastardized constitution that teaches bigotry, hate and persecution.

To progress and move forward, we have to revive our original identity and return to the laws laid by the father of our nation Jinnah. Otherwise we will end up isolated and hated in the world, one of which has already happened. I can see my country seizing to exist if we do not mend our ways. From the great and proud beginnings we had, now we are a shadow of our former selves.

My only wish is that I am able to see the Pakistan that was created on 1947 in my lifetime.

that will happen once PAK joins BAN and then Pak leave p-o-k. :)
 
Whereas the Attack on the Ahmadi mosques is an outrage against all norms of religion and humanity, Emo Girl has tried to leverage the mindless terrorist carnage in Lahore into a crude Islam Bashing session. This is even more pathetic.
 
Whereas the Attack on the Ahmadi mosques is an outrage against all norms of religion and humanity, Emo Girl has tried to leverage the mindless terrorist carnage in Lahore into a crude Islam Bashing session. This is even more pathetic.

i don't know why but people are seeing me as a conspirator against Islam & a Islam basher when the article has only first two paras with mention of minorities & then explanation of mindset....
 
I am not promoting Islam as a black religion there are enough people on the planet to do that & Muslims themselves are very good at doing it unintentionally even of the Video about that Girl been flogged is fake what difference does it makes? the people of Swat who were uprooted from their homes only because there was pressure on the Gov not to operate only because they are so called our own people, even when Naza-e-Adal was implemented we alls aw the intentions of theirs which they revealed by expanding down to Buner, if some sense would have prevailed in masses & if they were made ineffective at the right time we would not have seen millions
of IDPs

are all the Videos of soldiers & slaughter of Taliban released by Taliban fake

WARNING: Extremely Violent Content

Islamization Watch: Video: Taliban slaughter Pakistani soldiers and residents like animals

article ahs got no Ilsam bashing its only defining & talking about the bigotry & mindset which is allowing Terrorism & Extremism to prevail & eventually eat away all of us
 
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I have seen a video of a cd shop of Mingora when Radio Mullah ruled. The cd shop had dvd and vcds of executions and were distributed for free. The labels read the names of the soldiers.

This is how sick these Taliban here.

Any more Taliban apologists out there? Any more sympathizers out there?
 
And it continues

Ahmadi man stabbed to death in Narowal

Monday, 31 May, 2010
Lahore, May 29, 2010. — Reuters

LAHORE: An Ahmadi man was stabbed to death by an enraged man in Pakistan on Monday, just days after gun, grenade and suicide attacks targeting the religious minority killed more than 80 people, police said.

The stabbing took place in the town of Narowal, some 100 kilometres northeast of Lahore, where suspected militants wearing suicide vests burst into prayer halls on Friday and killed 82 worshippers.

“In the morning, a man identified as Abid Butt climbed the wall of the house of a local Ahmadi family and stabbed Naimatullah, 55, and his son Mansoor Ahmed,” local police station chief Riaz Sangha told AFP by telephone.

Naimatullah died of knife wounds and his son was rushed to hospital, he added.

The attacker escaped, the officer said.

Sangha quoted residents as saying that the assailant threatened to not leave any Ahmadi alive.

Salimuddin, a spokesman for Lahore's Ahmadi community “strongly condemned” what he called a “targeted killing”.

Pakistan declared Ahmadis non-Muslims in 1974 and 10 years later they were barred from calling themselves Muslims.

A US State Department report on human rights says that 11 Ahmadis were killed for their faith in 2009.

Religious violence in Pakistan, mostly between majority Sunni Muslims and minority Shias, has killed more than 4,000 people in the past decade.
 

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