Tejas, JF-17 among 108 Aircraft confimed to be participating at the Bahrain International Airshow.

[Manindra]

according to what I read 1 'averages between 6500 hours between in flight events' or something. So I guesstimated overall life might be above 7000 hours.

They change engine after 6000 hrs (It could be more but safety would be on Ram Bharose)

 

[Guynextdoor2]

A correction,
GE F-404 have 6000 hrs. of Engine life but in India's tropical condition it would be between 5000 to 5500 hs.
RD-33MK have 4000 hrs of engine life but RD-93 variant used in JF-17 have 2200 hrs of life(sacrifice some engine life for the sake of extra thrust) but can't comment on its but can't comment on its engine life in sub continent's tropical condition.

That is an incredibly $hitty decision. The only way they can manage now is:
- frequent engine maintenance and multiple engine changes during life - they can't do this coz they don't have the money
- reduce overall flight time and keep it inside the hangar to curb maintenance costs

Congrats again @Windjammer your bases can attract tourists as JF 17 museums too.....

They change engine after 6000 hrs (It could be more but safety would be on Ram Bharose)

Effectively where LCA does one original engine and one later (total 2 engines), JF 17 will have to do about 6 engines? WTF? How the hell did I miss this incredible GEM of an information for so long? This really is a joke of epic proportions

 

[Saurabh jindals]

JF-17 don't forget carrying YJ-83 or CM-400AKG anit-ship missile on the show ! JF-17 BlockIII anti-ship capacity can attract more potential customers.

CM-400AKG is a slow and High Altitude Missile, Not very effective in present times of Anti missile defense, Countries like Banana republic can afriad with CM 400 .

 

[Manindra]

That is an incredibly $hitty decision. The only way they can manage now is:
- frequent engine maintenance and multiple engine changes during life - they can't do this coz they don't have the money
- reduce overall flight time and keep it inside the hangar to curb maintenance costs

Congrats again @Windjammer your bases can attract tourists as JF 17 museums too.....

No, its good decision as they need increased thrust & engine overhaul in short period does not give you that.

Do not worry as GE proposed F414 EPE for AMCA have same engine life

Effectively where LCA does one original engine and one later (total 2 engines), JF 17 will have to do about 6 engines? WTF? How the hell did I miss this incredible GEM of an information for so long? This really is a joke of epic proportions

LCA need only 1 engine in her whole life as its official airframe life is 3000 hrs which can be near double in MLU.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

No, its good decision as they need increased thrust & engine overhaul in short period does not give you that.

Do not worry as GE proposed F414 EPE for AMCA have same engine life

You gotta gimme the gunpowder to troll a bit man . But you forget that AMCA is twin engined so there is a redundant option. Reason why russian jets can have lower engine life. Single engine jets- low life/ reliability is bad news.

No, its good decision as they need increased thrust & engine overhaul in short period does not give you that.

Do not worry as GE proposed F414 EPE for AMCA have same engine life


LCA need only 1 engine in her whole life as its official airframe life is 3000 hrs which can be near double in MLU.

I don't think we have a habit of keeping our jets within the official life. I mean, look at the Bisons- 40 years. I'm pretty sure the early batches of Su 30s are approaching their air frame life- we will keep them for over a decade at least.

 

[Saurabh jindals]

That is an incredibly $hitty decision. The only way they can manage now is:
- frequent engine maintenance and multiple engine changes during life - they can't do this coz they don't have the money
- reduce overall flight time and keep it inside the hangar to curb maintenance costs

Congrats again @Windjammer your bases can attract tourists as JF 17 museums too.....



Effectively where LCA does one original engine and one later (total 2 engines), JF 17 will have to do about 6 engines? WTF? How the hell did I miss this incredible GEM of an information for so long? This really is a joke of epic proportions

But you missed GE 404 cost 4 times then RD -93, but GE is far advance and relaible then RD . since its single engine it is v dangerous if engine failed.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

But you missed GE 404 cost 4 times then RD -93, but GE is far advance and relaible then RD . since its single engine it is v dangerous if engine failed.

yes, losing a pilot is more expensive and never worth the risk.

 

[GoldenRatio1618]

How Tejas has a BVR superiority over JF17...

1.The RADAR
The Elta 2052 is an advanced airborne Active electronically scanned array fire control radar for fighter aircraft. It is suitable for F-15, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and LCA Tejas. The EL/M-2052 is an advanced Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air superiority and advanced strike missions.The FCR is based on fully solid-state active phased array technology. This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. The EL/M-2052 radar incorporates operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

The radar introduces improvements to the Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea operation modes of the aircraft. In the Air-to-air mode, the radar enables a very long-range multi targets detection and enables several simultaneous weapon deliveries in combat engagements.

In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging. In Air-to-Sea missions the radar provides long-range target detection and tracking, including target classification capabilities (RS, ISAR).

AESA radar is resistant to jamming. JF17 jammers can't jam AESA radar
JF17 KLJ-7 uses a mechanically-steered planar array antenna and bears similarities with the various Russian radars imported in the 1990s.

>>>>>>Better radar.

2. THE RADAR cross-section
Tejas employs various features to keep the RCS low, including Y-shaped air inlets, extensive use of composite materials (which do not reflect radar waves) and a generous coating of radar-absorbing materials over the control surfaces.

JF17 has metallic body, so it has higher radar cross section.

3. The Propulsion
The General Electric F414 is an after burning turbofan engine in the 22,000-pound (98 kN) thrust class produced by GE Aviation. The F414 originated from GE's widely used F404 turbofan from the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, enlarged and improved for use in the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

Maximum speed: Designed max speed Mach 1.6. Achieved in tests.

JF17 has
RD-33 Russian
Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.
Life expectancy: 4,000 hours
or
Chinese WS-13 somehow achieves 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner, But life span of 2,200 hours only. Chinese have sacrificed engine lifespan to un-economical levels to achieve thrust. JF17 with WS-13 will need frequent engine replacement.

>>>>>>So better engine.

4. The Jammers
" They carry an Israeli jammer on it would practically make them invisible to our legacy
radar(non AESA) in the F-15 and F-16."(quoted by Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof on Indian Mig 21 bison with Israeli jammer).

Better Israeli jammer on Tejas will make it invisible to non AESA radars like KLJ-7 on JF17.

5. The Missiles

Russian R77 --- Operational range 80 km (R-77), 110 km (R-77-1) fire-and-forget missile

Indian Astra --- Operational range 80 km in head on chase ----- 20 km in tail chase

JF17 has
Chinese PL-12 active-radar BVR air-to-air missile --- Operational range 70 km - 100 km.

==================================================================

So Tejas has BVR edge over JF17. Here follows an BVR engagement scenario :

1. Tejas Elta 2052 AESA radar will track and lock on JF17. remember Tejas has lower radar cross section due to
composite body and better AESA radar.

2. Tejas will fire a pair(India can spend more missiles) of R-77-1 at 110km.

3. Israeli jammer will start jamming JF17's KLJ-7(non AESA radar). JF17 jammer fails to jam Israeli AESA radar(AESA radar speciality).

4. R-77 missile comes within 20km of JF17, the R-77 missile switches to its active radar mode.

5. Tejas makes a U-turn and fires chaff and escapes into Indian S400 range. Starts terrain hugging flight to evade radar and escape.

Tejas will repeat the above strategy again and again, and kill many JF17s.
India can afford to buy better BVR missiles in larger numbers from west. India should buy a large stockpile of BVR missiles.

How Tejas has a BVR superiority over JF17...

1.The RADAR
The Elta 2052 is an advanced airborne Active electronically scanned array fire control radar for fighter aircraft. It is suitable for F-15, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and LCA Tejas. The EL/M-2052 is an advanced Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air superiority and advanced strike missions.The FCR is based on fully solid-state active phased array technology. This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. The EL/M-2052 radar incorporates operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

The radar introduces improvements to the Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea operation modes of the aircraft. In the Air-to-air mode, the radar enables a very long-range multi targets detection and enables several simultaneous weapon deliveries in combat engagements.

In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging. In Air-to-Sea missions the radar provides long-range target detection and tracking, including target classification capabilities (RS, ISAR).

AESA radar is resistant to jamming. JF17 jammers can't jam AESA radar
JF17 KLJ-7 uses a mechanically-steered planar array antenna and bears similarities with the various Russian radars imported in the 1990s.

>>>>>>Better radar.

2. THE RADAR cross-section
Tejas employs various features to keep the RCS low, including Y-shaped air inlets, extensive use of composite materials (which do not reflect radar waves) and a generous coating of radar-absorbing materials over the control surfaces.

JF17 has metallic body, so it has higher radar cross section.

3. The Propulsion
The General Electric F414 is an after burning turbofan engine in the 22,000-pound (98 kN) thrust class produced by GE Aviation. The F414 originated from GE's widely used F404 turbofan from the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, enlarged and improved for use in the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

Maximum speed: Designed max speed Mach 1.6. Achieved in tests.

JF17 has
RD-33 Russian
Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.
Life expectancy: 4,000 hours
or
Chinese WS-13 somehow achieves 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner, But life span of 2,200 hours only. Chinese have sacrificed engine lifespan to un-economical levels to achieve thrust. JF17 with WS-13 will need frequent engine replacement.

>>>>>>So better engine.

4. The Jammers
" They carry an Israeli jammer on it would practically make them invisible to our legacy
radar(non AESA) in the F-15 and F-16."(quoted by Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof on Indian Mig 21 bison with Israeli jammer).

Better Israeli jammer on Tejas will make it invisible to non AESA radars like KLJ-7 on JF17.

5. The Missiles

Russian R77 --- Operational range 80 km (R-77), 110 km (R-77-1) fire-and-forget missile

Indian Astra --- Operational range 80 km in head on chase ----- 20 km in tail chase

JF17 has
Chinese PL-12 active-radar BVR air-to-air missile --- Operational range 70 km - 100 km.

==================================================================

So Tejas has BVR edge over JF17. Here follows an BVR engagement scenario :

1. Tejas Elta 2052 AESA radar will track and lock on JF17. remember Tejas has lower radar cross section due to
composite body and better AESA radar.

2. Tejas will fire a pair(India can spend more missiles) of R-77-1 at 110km.

3. Israeli jammer will start jamming JF17's KLJ-7(non AESA radar). JF17 jammer fails to jam Israeli AESA radar(AESA radar speciality).

4. R-77 missile comes within 20km of JF17, the R-77 missile switches to its active radar mode.

5. Tejas makes a U-turn and fires chaff and escapes into Indian S400 range. Starts terrain hugging flight to evade radar and escape.

Tejas will repeat the above strategy again and again, and kill many JF17s.
India can afford to buy better BVR missiles in larger numbers from west. India should buy a large stockpile of BVR missiles.

How Tejas has a BVR superiority over JF17...

1.The RADAR
The Elta 2052 is an advanced airborne Active electronically scanned array fire control radar for fighter aircraft. It is suitable for F-15, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and LCA Tejas. The EL/M-2052 is an advanced Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air superiority and advanced strike missions.The FCR is based on fully solid-state active phased array technology. This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. The EL/M-2052 radar incorporates operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

The radar introduces improvements to the Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea operation modes of the aircraft. In the Air-to-air mode, the radar enables a very long-range multi targets detection and enables several simultaneous weapon deliveries in combat engagements.

In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging. In Air-to-Sea missions the radar provides long-range target detection and tracking, including target classification capabilities (RS, ISAR).

AESA radar is resistant to jamming. JF17 jammers can't jam AESA radar
JF17 KLJ-7 uses a mechanically-steered planar array antenna and bears similarities with the various Russian radars imported in the 1990s.

>>>>>>Better radar.

2. THE RADAR cross-section
Tejas employs various features to keep the RCS low, including Y-shaped air inlets, extensive use of composite materials (which do not reflect radar waves) and a generous coating of radar-absorbing materials over the control surfaces.

JF17 has metallic body, so it has higher radar cross section.

3. The Propulsion
The General Electric F414 is an after burning turbofan engine in the 22,000-pound (98 kN) thrust class produced by GE Aviation. The F414 originated from GE's widely used F404 turbofan from the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, enlarged and improved for use in the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

Maximum speed: Designed max speed Mach 1.6. Achieved in tests.

JF17 has
RD-33 Russian
Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.
Life expectancy: 4,000 hours
or
Chinese WS-13 somehow achieves 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner, But life span of 2,200 hours only. Chinese have sacrificed engine lifespan to un-economical levels to achieve thrust. JF17 with WS-13 will need frequent engine replacement.

>>>>>>So better engine.

4. The Jammers
" They carry an Israeli jammer on it would practically make them invisible to our legacy
radar(non AESA) in the F-15 and F-16."(quoted by Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof on Indian Mig 21 bison with Israeli jammer).

Better Israeli jammer on Tejas will make it invisible to non AESA radars like KLJ-7 on JF17.

5. The Missiles

Russian R77 --- Operational range 80 km (R-77), 110 km (R-77-1) fire-and-forget missile

Indian Astra --- Operational range 80 km in head on chase ----- 20 km in tail chase

JF17 has
Chinese PL-12 active-radar BVR air-to-air missile --- Operational range 70 km - 100 km.

==================================================================

So Tejas has BVR edge over JF17. Here follows an BVR engagement scenario :

1. Tejas Elta 2052 AESA radar will track and lock on JF17. remember Tejas has lower radar cross section due to
composite body and better AESA radar.

2. Tejas will fire a pair(India can spend more missiles) of R-77-1 at 110km.

3. Israeli jammer will start jamming JF17's KLJ-7(non AESA radar). JF17 jammer fails to jam Israeli AESA radar(AESA radar speciality).

4. R-77 missile comes within 20km of JF17, the R-77 missile switches to its active radar mode.

5. Tejas makes a U-turn and fires chaff and escapes into Indian S400 range. Starts terrain hugging flight to evade radar and escape.

Tejas will repeat the above strategy again and again, and kill many JF17s.
India can afford to buy better BVR missiles in larger numbers from west. India should buy a large stockpile of BVR missiles.

indian are good in fake film making on assumptions and failed in real and outdate third generation teja how they are presenting +30 years old design in fourth and fifth generation market. its same like putting aessa on mirages....

 

[Saurabh jindals]

JFT's history must be known, Its an aircraft designed and developed directly by PAF. Its the first fighter or a few fighters which r developed specifically by an airforce itself.
JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

you have little knowledge about your own fighter , you can discuss with any senior person about this how much design , prototype manufacture and even testing done by PAF . "0"
@abdulbarijan plz this guy need some enlightenment. Plz teach him facts about jf 17.

Now tell me honestly, will you buy a car which is underdevelopment by a new start up company without any previous experience or from an established brand with years of experience like Mercedez, BMW etc

So, you are comparing your self with Mercedez, BMW or chinese are like them. Bit confusion here, gr8ful if cleared.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

you have little knowledge about your own fighter , you can discuss with any senior person about this how much design , prototype manufacture and even testing done by PAF . "0"
@abdulbarijan plz this guy need some enlightenment. Plz teach him facts about jf 17.


So, you are comparing your self with Mercedez, BMW or chinese are like them. Bit confusion here, gr8ful if cleared.

Son visit the source. Its abt the entire Data Base abt it in entire internet as well as has its chronology.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I am not countering you or anything mentioned, Read it carefully you himself get what I mentioned you .
Also Abdul has very good knowledge abt Jf 17 as I also disscused with him some times , you can chat him as well

U idiot Hindwana! the thread i shared has posts by @abdulbarijan as well.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Yawwn this is routine for JF-17 now. Can't say the same for teja.

 

[Spy Master]

A correction,
GE F-404 have 6000 hrs. of Engine life but in India's tropical condition it would be between 5000 to 5500 hs.
RD-33MK have 4000 hrs of engine life but RD-93 variant used in JF-17 have 2200 hrs of life(sacrifice some engine life for the sake of extra thrust) but can't comment on its but can't comment on its engine life in sub continent's tropical condition.

A source would be appreciated...! @Windjammer @Bratva Any info about this?

 

[#hydra#]

money is not everything, its how well you use it.
the real resource is the talent of marketing and showing larger than life through impressive presentation. I am talking the soul of bollywood which any marketing guru can use to impress people.

people with short interest span wont care about itss dimensions, lengthy specs that mean jack all to them. they will like to see its impressive flying, its impressive photography with breathtaking background. joyous and proud pilots taking talking about it and all.

Except western powers all other nations lags in marketing theire products. You see the russians,Despite of being one of the best arm manufacurer in the world their documentaries/ promotional videos and all lacks the professional touchups in video quality,sound effects,even hyping their projects. While selling their products all these things matters a lot. This is the case of a nation with decades of solid arm industry.
And newbies like us,Pakistan & China are nowhere in the picture.

 

[ConcealCarry]

JF-17 will fly to Bahrain, like it flew to Farnborough, China, Turkey, and Paris! how is india transporting Tejas?