Tejas grounds Medium Combat Aircraft project

[sancho]

actually,in other case,I'd support parallel research..but you know,its HAL and ADA..couldn't oppose their decision.but I think after making Tejas MK-II,we mustn't delay for AMCA project,2025 should be the deadline for that project(though I hope we could atleast finish within 2028,realistic approach)

If the project is in hold now, it would make even more sense for IAF, since it might be developed now as an MKI replacement by 2030...
...however, a development for the navy is still more important and if we do it the right way, it don't need to take that long too.

1) AESA radar is already under development, no matter if it will be ready for MK2 or not
2) NG design know how via FGFA and AURA development
3) Bound Rafale deal with Dassault being design and development partner for a naval AMCA
4) get a foreign partner for the engine development
5) get as much system and weapon commonality between LCA/FGFA and AMCA as possible


When we take the opportunities that we have, we can do it fast and efficient, but when we keep the attitude of developing everything alone, we won't get anywhere!

What's the MK.1 combat radius with one fuel tank, with 2 and without any?

Can't tell you that since the specs are keep changing. There were some specboards shown on some air shows, but without mentioning with what load.

 

[liontk]

Good step by the IAF, allocating their speciality into one area of development instead of multiple stagnant development Also if any inde person can elaborate, why is IAF not sticking with indigenous engine, it might not be on par but it is still indigenous, which is much more reliable as far as parts go in a case of war

 

[Dillinger]

If the project is in hold now, it would make even more sense for IAF, since it might be developed now as an MKI replacement by 2030...
...however, a development for the navy is still more important and if we do it the right way, it don't need to take that long too.

1) AESA radar is already under development, no matter if it will be ready for MK2 or not
2) NG design know how via FGFA and AURA development
3) Bound Rafale deal with Dassault being design and development partner for a naval AMCA
4) get a foreign partner for the engine development
5) get as much system and weapon commonality between LCA/FGFA and AMCA as possible


When we take the opportunities that we have, we can do it fast and efficient, but when we keep the attitude of developing everything alone, we won't get anywhere!



Can't tell you that since the specs are keep changing. There were some specboards shown on some air shows, but without mentioning with what load.

And why not let the Private sector take care of the MRO- given the poor record of the DPSUs, the DDP has already sanctioned that private companies can now bid for MRO work and get the required M-TOT.

We've got the broad framework for an AESA radar- one way or the other we are already manufacturing T/R modules so the biggest relative hurdle is over.

F-414 GE-INS6 or the EPE version with 120Kn wet thrust could be used. That would mean handling a known engine where the repair and maintenance infra is already present in country.

As we had thought of before..if one were to cannibalize the current AMCA design and re-orient it as a pure naval fighter..then it could even use the FGFA engine..assuming that we go for a heavy naval fighter instead of the current medium AMCA.

There so many building blocks within hand...the IN should be asked for a briefing and a requirement cum feasibility study..see what it throws up.

 

[S-DUCT]

Good step by the IAF, allocating their speciality into one area of development instead of multiple stagnant development Also if any inde person can elaborate, why is IAF not sticking with indigenous engine, it might not be on par but it is still indigenous, which is much more reliable as far as parts go in a case of war

Kaveri still has serious wet thrust shortfalls and is overweight by more than 150kg.

 

[Dillinger]

Kaveri still has serious wet thrust shortfalls and is overweight by more than 150kg.

Is it a design issue, a material issue. What actually ails the Kaveri? I believe we've forged single crystal blades of the 1st and 2nd gen already and displayed them in this aero-India exhibition?

 

[S-DUCT]

Is it a design issue, a material issue. What actually ails the Kaveri? I believe we've forged single crystal blades of the 1st and 2nd gen already and displayed them in this aero-India exhibition?

Most probably material isssue,because once it is sorted out you can increase OPR and Turbine inlet temperature to incrase thrust.SCB tech is only needed for blades in turbines.
Weight issue can be resolved if develope lighter materials or decrease stages.Developing lighter materials is the only option because doing the later will decrease thrust output.

 

[Dillinger]

Most probably material isssue,because once it is sorted out you can increase OPR and Turbine inlet temperature to incrase thrust.SCB tech is only needed for blades in turbines.
Weight issue can be resolved if develope lighter materials or decrease stages.Developing lighter materials is the only option because doing the later will decrease thrust output.

So the lack of which materials has got us bogged down..as in which materials which the US and Russia and EU have but we don't? Any ides? Also the whole Kaveri K9+ engine and K10 engine has got me confused- what's the difference?

 

[Tshering22]

Tejas started when I was in school.. now I am married and am expecting my first child soon.

Just hope my kid doesn't ask the same question "papa, Tejas kab induct hoga"?

 

[maniac@666]

all i wanna is say is that a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. just concentrate on tejas for timebeing.

 

[Anony]

But sources pointed out that the LCA still lacks certain critical capabilities, including a reliable radar, and is deficient in at least 100 technical parameters. “The plane cannot fly on its own. It needs a lifeline in the form of support and monitoring of its systems from the ground by technicians,” they said.

The LCA, in fact, gave creditable flying displays during the AeroIndia show in Yelahanka in Bangalore in February this year, and followed it up with weapons firing to hit both ground and aerial targets during the Iron Fist fire power display by the IAF in the Rajasthan’s Pokhran ranges, again in February this year. “The common man thinks the plane is doing fine, its engine sounds great and the manoeuvres are perfect. But those flying and weapons firing displays are done with ground monitoring and support. The plane is still not ready to flying on its own,” sources stressed.

“Normally, a combat plane is ready for its next sortie following a 30-minute attention from ground service personnel soon after it has returned from a mission. In the case of LCA, after a single sortie of about an hour or so, it needs three days of servicing before it can go for its next sortie,” they said.

Reading the article, one can understand the knowledge our journo posses in the field. It is alright for Tejas to use ground radar to fire weapons, because the whole weapon firing program was to check the weapon releasing aspect of the aircraft and it's stability at the time of releasing the weapon.

Secondly, it can't fly on it's own, simply because the sensors and radars are not integrated in LSP. Only in LSP-3 radar has been integrated.Foolish journo.

The reason for doing a sortie with LSP is to record different paramaters and to check if all the parts is functioning as expected. So it requires 3-4 days to evaluate the data. What is so sensational about it?

And lastly, though I am not quite sure, from where these journos learn about 100 deficient parameters and who is their reliable source. I doubt these idiots know even 10 parameters of evaluating an aircraft.

 

[S-DUCT]

So the lack of which materials has got us bogged down..as in which materials which the US and Russia and EU have but we don't? Any ides? Also the whole Kaveri K9+ engine and K10 engine has got me confused- what's the difference?

single crystal blades, bladed disk and EBPVD (electron beam plasma vapour deposit coating), all critical areas that the Kaveri engine has failed to find solutions to within the country.
K-9 now will power AURA and K-10 program are now dead.GTRE has issued global tender to codevelope Brisk fan for 75/110KN GT

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Tejas started when I was in school.. now I am married and am expecting my first child soon.

Just hope my kid doesn't ask the same question "papa, Tejas kab induct hoga"?

Congrats bro,something to cheer after all

 

[Dillinger]

single crystal blades, bladed disk and EBPVD (electron beam plasma vapour deposit coating), all critical areas that the Kaveri engine has failed to find solutions to within the country.
K-9 now will power AURA and K-10 program are now dead.GTRE has issued global tender to codevelope Brisk fan for 75/110KN GT

But we did produce SCBs, not a third gen though only 2nd gen..you mean Blisk right? Ok wait at 82Kn wet thrust which it already produces isn't it sort of already ready to power the AURA?

 

[S-DUCT]

@Dillinger
It seems we have master Single crystal technlogy ,only technological hurdle is to develope Brisk fan that can with enormous temperature in Hot turbine section.
For a turbine both are required no doubt, but for the modern compressor stages, blisk manufacturing tech is a vital (while SCB is not) factor.

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger
It seems we have master Single crystal technlogy ,only technological hurdle is to develope Brisk fan that can with enormous temperature in Hot turbine section.
For a turbine both are required no doubt, but for the modern compressor stages, blisk manufacturing tech is a vital (while SCB is not) factor.

What is the thrust of the F-404 variant powering the MK.1, 49Kn dry and 79Kn wet at 1050 Kg weight..isn't the Kaveri already producing around 51 Kn dry and 82 Kn wet at 1235 Kg? So isn't it almost good enough to power the MK.1 NOW?