Tejas fires missile, hits target

[indiatester]

Dude, their knowledge base is pathetic, the only thing they are concerned with is their bonuses and their benefits - believe me, I have first hand knowledge personally of the capabilities of these pieces of cr@p. HAL and ISRO is miles ahead - ADA and NAL are a piece of cr@p.

80-20 rule dude.... 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. As long as you have that 20% doing the actual work, you are fine.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

And pray tell how did you gauge their knowledge base? They do not go about collecting aircraft trivia like me and you, if your are involved in aeronautical engineering and found their grasp of that specific disciplin

And pray tell how did you gauge their knowledge base? They do not go about collecting aircraft trivia like me and you, if your are involved in aeronautical engineering and found their grasp of that specific discipline to be lacking then that's another issue.

Dunno what sorta people you've met but my friend's father is an employee of HAL(heli division though) he is a freaking genius.
IIT-K alumnus and a staunch patriot.He holds the organisation in high regard.

 

[acid rain]

80-20 rule dude.... 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. As long as you have that 20% doing the actual work, you are fine.

and that 80% pull that 20% down so as to not highlight their own incompetencies - thats inter office poltics that exists in our fat government offices - esspecially public sectors.

 

[SQ8]

Aren't enough specimens to go around, every craft which has taken to the sky has some modification or other and is being used to validate the adherence to some parameter or the other, even if TACDE got heir hands on the bird now it would still take an appreciable amount of time to get the job done. As for the sim, its not a matter of how much time it will take or the capability to realize a sim but rather an absolute lack of foresight, the folks at ADA have treated this whole thing as a science project, to design a good flying machine not a feasible war-machine. What we are now seeing are the corrective measures being taken to mitigate that early thought process and POV that drove the project so that an employable and maintainable war-machine can be handed over to the IAF, ergo the delays.

Unfortunately the only loser in this is the IAF and a fairly nice little plane.

Well produced video? as in something on the lines of the half baked or grainy pics released by CCP of ACC's, destroyers, 5th generation fighter aircrafts? - if propaganda was the goal then this 30 year old plane would have been in production ages ago.

Regardless of CCP doing what it does.. India(or Indians) cannot look to the Chinese as some example or benchmark to gauge their performance if that is all that they wish to do.
If Propaganda has not been the goal then ADA should not be parading a half baked product around in high def videos. There is certainly an element of propaganda or PR involved whenever one announces such tests and all over the world it is done. What was surprising for me was the need to reiterate what was already successful by the news source. The Tejas, regardless of its delays is finally coming along in a cohesive manner and hence when missile tests are conducted to "reverify" what I assumed was a "successful verification" done months ago one wonders why that milestone had not been crossed yet.

 

[illusion8]

Unfortunately the only loser in this is the IAF and a fairly nice little plane.



Regardless of CCP doing what it does.. India(or Indians) cannot look to the Chinese as some example or benchmark to gauge their performance if that is all that they wish to do.
If Propaganda has not been the goal then ADA should not be parading a half baked product around in high def videos. There is certainly an element of propaganda or PR involved whenever one announces such tests and all over the world it is done. What was surprising for me was the need to reiterate what was already successful by the news source. The Tejas, regardless of its delays is finally coming along in a cohesive manner and hence when missile tests are conducted to "reverify" what I assumed was a "successful verification" done months ago one wonders why that milestone had not been crossed yet.

Equally surprising for me as it is for you - but in hindsight I am not surprised though.

 

[illusion8]

And pray tell how did you gauge their knowledge base? They do not go about collecting aircraft trivia like me and you, if your are involved in aeronautical engineering and found their grasp of that specific discipline to be lacking then that's another issue.

How did I gauge their knowledge?

Yeah I tried that in my own way - by trying to begin a conversation on the recently selected rafale - I was surprised when they did not know that rafale had won the competition also was equally surprised when I told them about HAL buying up land to put a whole new production line to manufacture rafales in the near future - they had no idea about that as well - when practically HAL facilities is right next door to their offices. -that was sacrilege in my books that not knowing rafale won the MMRCA and that HAL is increasing its facilities to start a production line.

Second discussion I had with them was when I mentioned AMCA and they did not have a clue about it, was surprising to me because ADA was fighting tooth and nail to handle that project and it's been two and a half years and they have still not come up with a working design for the AMCA. Not surprising though was the central government moved to curtail their pension and bonuses for lack of performance and they opposing that and the fact that they have been working on the tejas (their only project) for the last few decades with an no end in sight.

I seriously suggest that you make a visit to NAL's facility in Bangalore - you would be surprised as well that between the one hour late reporting time, one hour gossiping time, one and a half hour tea break, two hours lunch breaks - as to when do they get the time to do any productive work. I have seen Govt facilities many times before - but one where children are playing around and wives of the employees roaming around freely enjoying the subsidized Rs.2.50/- non veg lunch platter would come as a surprise even for the average Indian who knows that nothing fruitful gets done in government offices.

No wonder that NAL has been working on the Saras (their only project) for the last 26 years and their only prototype crashed and burned and they are still building the second one and ADA has been designing the Tejas for the last few decades and it's taken them two and half years yet they haven't come up with a workable design for the AMCA, when I think a bunch of engineering kids who are paid a 100 crores a year would have thrown at us a hundred prototype designs.

 

[neehar]

How did I gauge their knowledge?

Yeah I tried that in my own way - by trying to begin a conversation on the recently selected rafale - I was surprised when they did not know that rafale had won the competition also was equally surprised when I told them about HAL buying up land to put a whole new production line to manufacture rafales in the near future - they had no idea about that as well - when practically HAL facilities is right next door to their offices. -that was sacrilege in my books that not knowing rafale won the MMRCA and that HAL is increasing its facilities to start a production line.

Second discussion I had with them was when I mentioned AMCA and they did not have a clue about it, was surprising to me because ADA was fighting tooth and nail to handle that project and it's been two and a half years and they have still not come up with a working design for the AMCA. Not surprising though was the central government moved to curtail their pension and bonuses for lack of performance and they opposing that and the fact that they have been working on the tejas (their only project) for the last few decades with an no end in sight.

I seriously suggest that you make a visit to NAL's facility in Bangalore - you would be surprised as well that between the one hour late reporting time, one hour gossiping time, one and a half hour tea break, two hours lunch breaks - as to when do they get the time to do any productive work. I have seen Govt facilities many times before - but one where children are playing around and wives of the employees roaming around freely enjoying the subsidized Rs.2.50/- non veg lunch platter would come as a surprise even for the average Indian who knows that nothing fruitful gets done in government offices.

No wonder that NAL has been working on the Saras (their only project) for the last 26 years and their only prototype crashed and burned and they are still building the second one and ADA has been designing the Tejas for the last few decades and it's taken them two and half years yet they haven't come up with a workable design for the AMCA, when I think a bunch of engineering kids who are paid a 100 crores a year would have thrown at us a hundred prototype designs.

why the hell does they have to know about mmrca??they are not gonna make deals anyway!!its fine as long as they are good with technical aspects.given this is our first attempt and though we have some short comings we've almost completed the project is a good note we have to remember.we still have to master crucial things like radar and power plant but i'm sure things will follow.ISRO was doing the same when it was started exploring with science and today we're all proud of them are'nt we??some day things will be good for other agencies aswell.

 

[illusion8]

why the hell does they have to know about mmrca??they are not gonna make deals anyway!!its fine as long as they are good with technical aspects.given this is our first attempt and though we have some short comings we've almost completed the project is a good note we have to remember.we still have to master crucial things like radar and power plant but i'm sure things will follow.ISRO was doing the same when it was started exploring with science and today we're all proud of them are'nt we??some day things will be good for other agencies aswell.

As I said ISRO and HAL are way ahead than ADA and NAL, as for not knowing the winner of MMRCA or what development they are working on for the last two and a half years? that would be pathetic.

 

[sancho]

why the hell does they have to know about mmrca??they are not gonna make deals anyway!!its fine as long as they are good with technical aspects.given this is our first attempt and though we have some short comings we've almost completed the project is a good note we have to remember.we still have to master crucial things like radar and power plant but i'm sure things will follow.ISRO was doing the same when it was started exploring with science and today we're all proud of them are'nt we??some day things will be good for other agencies aswell.

But that shouldn't be the excuse for anything! Many things in the project went wrong not because it was the first time, but we planned it poorly, based only of hope, overestimation and pride/ego. We shouldn't and can't excuse waste of time and money for such reasons, which is why managers and scientists of DRDO, ADA and co must be accountable in some ways for their mismanagement and failures too. Improvement is not only going for the next project, but also learning from the mistakes that were done!

 

[faithfulguy]

Congrats to India that LCA fire a missile and hit the target in test.

 

[neehar]

But that shouldn't be the excuse for anything! Many things in the project went wrong not because it was the first time, but we planned it poorly, based only of hope, overestimation and pride/ego. We shouldn't and can't excuse waste of time and money for such reasons, which is why managers and scientists of DRDO, ADA and co must be accountable in some ways for their mismanagement and failures too. Improvement is not only going for the next project, but also learning from the mistakes that were done!

ofcourse i agree with u.i'm not saying that they are perfect but i mean they must be given some slack and create a better environment for them to work.for example in ADA most of the posts are filled temporarily for 2-3 years on contract basis and they might or might not be made permanent.given this kind of situation why would they sweat for the organization??they'll move on to other job anyway and u dont retain the technical expertise that way so its ultimately the govt's call to give it enough resources at least financially so that they can completely support their program by their own employees who can be groomed to take up better challenges in the future of what they have learnt in the past.

As I said ISRO and HAL are way ahead than ADA and NAL, as for not knowing the winner of MMRCA or what development they are working on for the last two and a half years? that would be pathetic.

most of them are employed on a temporary basis.they move on after 2-3 years so i dont blame them really.its the fault of the govt who failed to provide them with adequate resources to run a research institution.they really dont care about mmrca or AMCA its us defence enthusiasts who are interested in them as i said they do not remain in the field for long so there will be difference in the attitude of just being a passing cloud.

 

[oFFbEAT]

 

[oFFbEAT]

An awesome video.....

Tejas is 20 yrs. late but not 20 yrs. behind......

 

[illusion8]

ofcourse i agree with u.i'm not saying that they are perfect but i mean they must be given some slack and create a better environment for them to work.for example in ADA most of the posts are filled temporarily for 2-3 years on contract basis and they might or might not be made permanent.given this kind of situation why would they sweat for the organization??they'll move on to other job anyway and u dont retain the technical expertise that way so its ultimately the govt's call to give it enough resources at least financially so that they can completely support their program by their own employees who can be groomed to take up better challenges in the future of what they have learnt in the past.


most of them are employed on a temporary basis.they move on after 2-3 years so i dont blame them really.its the fault of the govt who failed to provide them with adequate resources to run a research institution.they really dont care about mmrca or AMCA its us defence enthusiasts who are interested in them as i said they do not remain in the field for long so there will be difference in the attitude of just being a passing cloud.

If true then how productive can they be? once someone knows they are getting out in a couple of years why would they bother to do a good job or be creative?

 

[MilSpec]

Has it not conducted live tests before?? the very well produced video suggests that.

It might have fired, but target telemetrics and additional heap of data for some poor engineers nightmare might not have been compiled, this test seems for that.

I would like to see some R77 AE, R73 Astra 1/2 and Derby tests, although some might disagree with the consolidation of munitions, it think Vympel AAM's and Raduga's A2G/ASW munitions will make this plane a very potent platform...