Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

[My-Analogous]

Still they pile up their inventory with Russian junks

These Russian junks protect you since 1947. Truly Indian can't be trusted

 

[ziaulislam]

IAF will not accept any govt orders before they get rafales that is the real story, PAK FA needs more money that is where India is with it at the moment, F35 will be a long wait and IAF wants 400+ fighters before 2025, govt would be forced to bow down to IAF requirements, IAF is waiting for 2019 elections and then if Congress comes they will get the 126 rafales they we're promised, F16's are highly unlikely as PAF is in and out of F16 they know everything about it, gripen is not bad either and we can have AMCA together both Sweden and India can operate them or we have a French and German 5 gen coming up....both, Tejas will reach there when IAF gets satisfied, right now they want high end fighters when they have them they would definitely fill the interceptor section with Tejas....

For armed forcing doing poltics is highly un professional ...you cant change an aircraft endurance, range or maintaince without a majir design change which will take a at least 5 years and likley 10 years..so if tejas is not right IAF should just ask to scrap the project and sanction a new project from experience gained from tejas..

PAKFA is cheaper than rafale so its not the money some other issues

Gripen is needed as india needs 800+fighters by 2030 and only the su30 and rafale will be operational by than...may be the mirages can be stretched to 2040 and may be the MIGs but that would still mean 300+ fighter requirement

 

[My-Analogous]

You misunderstood,
This is called high standards of evaluation,
Only the airforces who can afford the best can set such standards,

However there are few who have inducted JF17, compare specs and performance of Tejas and JF17,
PAF has inducted JF17, lesser performer than Tejas,

Its shows the difference in standards of tow airforces,
One which says F18/ Tejas doest not suit its requirements and other which inducts JF17

How do you know it is lesser performance? Do you fly those birds?

 

[ziaulislam]

I highly doubt what you wrote about Turkey being light years ahead of India. Turkey has assembled F-16s we have done that with Russian jets more than even Turkey even completely made Su30. We also have our own 4th gen fighter Tejas which they don't have . India also has a fifth gen program AMCA and another collaboration 5th Gen with Russia PAK-FA /FGFA.
I don't have a cheeky sense of humor as you accused me of but I asked a pertinent question to that certain Turkish gentleman calling India racist profanities .




The report is not bogus neither is the general lying , see India has money to spend 45-50 billion dollars for 400 fighters to replace the old jets by 2030 and no sanctions are on India and OEMs have agreed to make their jets in India If F-16 blk70 is chosen it will be made in India if JAS-39 gripens or the future Gripen NG will be made in India if sufficient orders are given. So what will you choose ??

You know F-16blk70 and the Gripen are the most advanced single engined non stealth fighter in the world and you have 20 billion dollar for this program so the answer is obvious .

What if for example somebody gave PAF 20 billion to buy any aircraft that money cannot be spent for any thing else
what will PAF do will it still go for Jf-17s or will rather order 120+ stealth J-31s to be made in PAC Kamra and inducted in PAF in future.

Non of that it is an excellent small single engine fighter with state of the are ELTA AESA radar and GE engines. Just that it is not equal to F-16 blk70 nor JAS-39 gripen.

This happens to an airforce that has lot of money and is spoiled for choices.

You are just doing circles
There is one thing fighter has limitations there us one thing calling it maintaince and operational night mare

Turkey has not only been.assembling f16 but also patnered the project and the f 35 ..what india is about to do today is what Turkey was already doing in 90s

They have developed all sort of basic airplanes, and now will soon end up with working helios

The exports speaks for them selves

 

[ziaulislam]

Forget every thing and tell me does your JF in its current Block have laser guided bombs , or precission guided or glide bombs or BVR (with EL-M2032 & I DERBY ER/DERBY combo)or short range multi seeker head (IIR+electro optical WVR) bombs or missile firring capability(paveway 2 & griffin& spike family) with them or 4 channell digital fly by wire or the 90 degree high off bore sight (HOBS) with Israeli DASH-3 HMDS & HUD with PYTHON-5 & LITENING 3 G3 laser designation POD compatiabily in Tejas MK1 as of now ... YES or NO .... forget what it WILL HAVE im asking what does it HAS RIGHT NOW


does you PAF or your air force planners think so ?


well point is Tejas is last of your planners worries but just out of sher jelousy and frustation pakistani internet fanboys keep making fun of tejas to keep ther egos boosted

now let me give you some facts

we have already tested GaA UTTAM AESA on Tejas but we want a GaN based AESA radar with forward looking IRST sensor and GaN AESA based Growler type EW+ECM+internal jammer suite (already RFI goven and international contest on between ELTA , Raython and Thales for 120+systems) and already thats in works to lower the gross wieght at least by 500-800 kilos

so do you know what it means in a fighter jet which is already most compact and lightest in its catagory with 98% of its skin in electromantic pulses /radar waves cheating carbon compsites skin layered with desi RAM coating with a Y duct that compeltli shrouds the engine and its hot parts/blades from front making its over all RCS almost 1/3rd as that of Mirage2000 which is lesser than that of your F16 in clean configuration ... rest you can spculate yourself as LCA also has 7+1 hardpoints (7 weapons &1 pods station) and stull has a decent combat radius of 400 KM in low flight altitude of 6km ... do you know what is the deapth of pakistani air space ... 275 KM maening........


no IAF already orderred 40 MK1 and 120 MK1A and the cabapllitues what MK1 has right now your beloved JF17 wants to have in 2019 need i say more now go and check them like HOBS , 4 chanell digital fly by wire , BVR capbilty or LDP comatiability with LGB firring capbility and PGM or glide bomb firring cpability which tejas is time and again tested in day & night and all kinds of weather and can take of with full internal fuel(2.45) tonne and weapons load 3.5 tonne from a very short runnway from very high altitude runways like those in leh or laddhak to those in andaman or nickobar to those in desrt of bikaner can you JF17 do all that right now .....


LCA Tejas if very small point defnce fighter not a bomber its primary job is air to air engagemnets or defend air bases if ever enemy bombers suceed to intrude indian airspace but it can also perfors supression or enemy air defnce or destruction or enemy air defnce roles or precission bombimgs as a secondry roles and in this age of smart bombs the ammount of load is not important but type of load is and tejas can take 1 LITENING3 G3 LDP and 5 heavy LGBs in a single sortie with 2 WVRs can your JF17 do that think again View attachment 436167

Answer is yes...please go to info thread
It has precision weapons BVRs surveillance and excellent advance wvr missles

The upcoming block wil AESA and IRST

HMD as well with off bore missles through ability vs cost of this addition is highly debatable.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan and India both needed to replace their fleets of MIG-21/F-7 jets. Pakistan froze the design at a stage and then inducted the plane, which is undeniably better than the old MIG-21/F-7 platform. India is still flying the old MIG-21 and spending money on them.

I don't think that is a good approach. What it clearly looks like a state of "analysis paralysis" for the Indian armed forces.



What AUKAT does India have when it is still flying the MIG-21s?

Well whether its the f35 or typhoons or rafale every plan is built in blocks and verified ...
This what we did
India wanted a unique approach that has not been done anywhere i.e build plan than just scrap and build again

 

[MultaniGuy]

The Tejas is not a very good fighter plane.

 

[Indian Jatt]

For armed forcing doing poltics is highly un professional ...you cant change an aircraft endurance, range or maintaince without a majir design change which will take a at least 5 years and likley 10 years..so if tejas is not right IAF should just ask to scrap the project and sanction a new project from experience gained from tejas..

PAKFA is cheaper than rafale so its not the money some other issues

Gripen is needed as india needs 800+fighters by 2030 and only the su30 and rafale will be operational by than...may be the mirages can be stretched to 2040 and may be the MIGs but that would still mean 300+ fighter requirement

Sir I completely understand the problem but Tejas is a good fighter, till date only $2.3 billion have been spent on plane from it's starting phase till now, constant deviations and requirement changes were made, IAF never really wanted a home grown fighter, they want high tech planes first and then a single engine fighter like F16 or gripen and then if some room is left they would fill that up with Tejas....
Tejas is still a good plane if you want them to replace Mig 21's...
FGFA or PAK FA ha not yet demonstrated it's full potential, we will wait for more powerful engine and a next gen sensor integration suit and few new armaments.
A future order for rafales is expected as reliance is getting ready to make them here in India and Tata is ready to pounce upon the chance to make the legendary F16 with Lockheed Martin, India will have it's Air force ready for a war, but it won't be an indigenous force.....

 

[Storm Force]

I'm fraid

THE F16/70 ate COMING I expect to see THESE IN INDIA by 2022

MY WORST NIGHTMARE

god help INDIA

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir I completely understand the problem but Tejas is a good fighter, till date only $2.3 billion have been spent on plane from it's starting phase till now, constant deviations and requirement changes were made, IAF never really wanted a home grown fighter, they want high tech planes first and then a single engine fighter like F16 or gripen and then if some room is left they would fill that up with Tejas....
Tejas is still a good plane if you want them to replace Mig 21's...
FGFA or PAK FA ha not yet demonstrated it's full potential, we will wait for more powerful engine and a next gen sensor integration suit and few new armaments.
A future order for rafales is expected as reliance is getting ready to make them here in India and Tata is ready to pounce upon the chance to make the legendary F16 with Lockheed Martin, India will have it's Air force ready for a war, but it won't be an indigenous force.....

i think india should have hired consultants from west in 1990s to make sure they make something thats workable rather than building a purely indigenous platform
remeber, china and west build several types of planes, failed or inducted them in limited numebr and thus have gained alot experience, india cannot do the same, what it should do is bypass this by hiring good people who can make sure india doesnt do these mistakes

range, payload is understandable but life cycle cost is the only thing makes me skeptical, i am not sure how true this report is, but fact that it states tejas is very difficult to maintain is worrisome

current gen fighters main selling point is that they should be easy to maintain

till now i was blaming IAF for tejas fiasco but if its true that its 3x-5X worse in maintenance than 90s era f-16s and gripen than it is a disastrous, as this is a problem of f-5/f-6s/mig 19 and mig 21s era fighters

so what can IAF do, i think instead of just inducting tejas for the sake of it, it should do a technical study to see if this can be fixed, if not its just better to scrap it al together and call for new fighter

nobody is claiming thunder is better in anyway but it is atleast not a maintenance hog PAF has repeatedly said that its very close in maintenance to modern fighter/f-16

 

[My-Analogous]

You don't have to wait for MK2, its MK-1A which has all of this.

We are waiting since 30 years and in return we only get big talk. It is time for Indian to stop talking and start working.

I'm fraid

THE F16/70 ate COMING I expect to see THESE IN INDIA by 2022

MY WORST NIGHTMARE

god help INDIA

Mine too, when i see F16 with three target pods. US will kill F16 program after seeing this Indian version of F16

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

We are waiting since 30 years and in return we only get big talk. It is time for Indian to stop talking and start working.

Tejas is not our main stay fighter unlike JF-17 for Pakistan. This is why IAF can be exacting on demands of requirement. Unlike PAF which inducted a platform in Block 1 without even Air to Air refueling. Its simply that IAF wants more finished product than PAF which is ready to induct anything so long it flies.

 

[My-Analogous]

Tejas is not our main stay fighter unlike JF-17 for Pakistan. This is why IAF can be exacting on demands of requirement. Unlike PAF which inducted a platform in Block 1 without even Air to Air refueling. Its simply that IAF wants more finished product that PAF which is ready to induct anything so long it flies.

Who says that JF17 is our main fighter?. JF17 role is defensive and support attacking. Where did you get this info?

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Who says that JF17 is our main fighter?. JF17 role is defensive and support attacking. Where did you get this info?

Alright, so tell me how many new F-16 you are getting? Or J-10Bs? You dont have money for anything better than JF-17. Offense Defense all based on one platform which is short-legged.

 

[hussain0216]

Alright, so tell me how many new F-16 you are getting? Or J-10Bs? You dont have money for anything better than JF-17. Offense Defense all based on one platform which is short-legged.

Who says its short legged its simply getting better and better as time goes on

PAF understands that it takes time to get pilots trained on a jet, it takes time to develop combat doctrines.
It takes time to partake in joint airforce exercises so your jet csn be pitted against a variety of opposition jets

Pakistan knew all this so had a plan in place which it followed

JF17s have been in service for a decade.
Block 3 is just round the corner
100 jets have been built
3 export customers have placed orders

AND MOST IMPORTANT!!!!!
Pakistani pilots have had a decade to get to grips with the plane and push it to its limits, as the plane matures Pakistani pilots are ready and primed


As opposed to the utterly stupid indian policy of trying to make a race horse out of the tejas donkey and giving nothing to your pilots
So when you finally hand the flying turd to your airforce in numbers it will take them anothet decade+ to work out the plane, its limits, combat doctrines and experience flying it against better planes so you can come up with a strategy on how to fly the damn thing

Pakistan isnt perfect but buddy the JF17s are an example of how to build up a fighter jet programme properly when you have many obstacles

The Tejas is an example of how to utterly fcuk up a programme