Taseer should have been more balanced, careful: Sharif

[PoKeMon]

actually it is quite unfortunate that those who know nothing about ISLAM or have a very minor knowledge( neem hakeem khatrae jaaan and neem mullah khatra eiman) are making some irrational remarks.
they want to justify an irrational matter in rational way.
1st and foremost thing, all should respect others religion and no one has right to abuse others religion.
i don,t want to criticise any non-muslim but its my request to them that it is very sensitive issue and should be delt by ISLAMIC SCHOLARS ( not even by us because our knowledge is not upto that level) .
other thing most of us are unaware of ground realities that led to that unfortunate incident.
so better leave it to ISLAMIC SCHOLARS because our knowledge is not so vast to deal this law..

Thanks for telling me that Islam is so complicate that even muslims like you cant understand it, leave the non muslims aside.
If this is the fact(which I dont think is) then this is the route cause of misunderstanding of its laws. When followers are in confusion what can be expected from others.
My intentions are very novel but I think I choose the wrong people to teach me.

Thanks though.

 

[mjnaushad]

assalam alaikum

Sir giving examples of the Prophet (PBUH) before hijra is not related after hijrah he fought he punished etc. There r things that the Prophet (PBUH) can forgive himself not me and u.

ST could have provided security for the convict and legal help nobody stopped him but he went to the prison and did media publicity. Is asa bibi is the only mazloom in pak prisons?

U put a lot of stress on uneducated woman, where in the law say uneducated can't get punishment after all we have millions of uneducated ppl can they abuse the law and this reason will prevent them from getting punished ?

Don't worry about muslims during salman rushdie day i heard the same comment and islam spread more and now it is also spreading, we need not to be apologatic.

If we r in a mess it is bcoz of ST alikes who doesnot obey the law of the land

TARIQ

And tell me did the guy who kill Salman taseer obeyed Law??? The Lawyers who today shower rose petel took any "Law of the land" route. Did these Religious parties Filed any FIR. Sunni tehreek, Shia Council, Tanzemi Islami any of these hypocrites obeyed constitution??????

Sir giving examples of the Prophet (PBUH) before hijra is not related after hijrah he fought he punished etc. There r things that the Prophet (PBUH) can forgive himself not me and u.

Prophet can forgive but we (the followers) can't ... Right? thats what you trying to say.... Now tell me who was with prophet on his visit to taif .... was he not his true follower or was he not "aashiq -e- Rasool".

 

[PoKeMon]

If anybody wanna know about islam or even discuss islam we don't have any problem as a matter of fact i m in a place where many ppl come in and abuse us call us many names and we still talk with them. But there r somethings that u can't understand them and i don't know ur intentios also, so why i waist my time and urs ?

I got pm's where jews , christians and other have insulted me i never abuse them and u can watch me on this forum i will never insult anybody and if i do just let me know i will opologize but insulting me is not when sombebody talk about our Prophet ( PBUH) IT IS VERY SENSITIVE TO US.
I hope u understand

TARIQ

I think we should not discuss your believes with you.
I have gone through the thread(on Salmaan Tasseer) by Asim Aquil and saw you thanking the extremist ideology.
We are very different in opinion so let us leave the topic aside which will cause only flames.
I hope it would be fine.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum

Yes we don't need to go on destroying idols but if a situation arise they can be destroyed

TARIQ

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

I think we should not discuss your believes with you.
I have gone through the thread(on Salmaan Tasseer) by Asim Aquil and saw you thanking the extremist ideology.
We are very different in opinion so let us leave the topic aside which will cause only flames.
I hope it would be fine.

Hello

U proved my point, I told u in the first place no point discussing this matter with u

TARIQ

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

And tell me did the guy who kill Salman taseer obeyed Law??? The Lawyers who today shower rose petel took any "Law of the land" route. Did these Religious parties Filed any FIR. Sunni tehreek, Shia Council, Tanzemi Islami any of these hypocrites obeyed constitution??????





Prophet can forgive but we (the followers) can't ... Right? thats what you trying to say.... Now tell me who was with prophet on his visit to taif .... was he not his true follower or was he not "aashiq -e- Rasool".

assalam alaikum

Brother if ST did obey the law we would not be discussing this matter in fact he was even telling the ppl if she is convicted in higher court will not be punished ( goto hello all of u , meray jootay ki nook per etc )

If u mean FIR AGAINST ST ( these ppl have a an order from the supreme court to open the case of zardari and refusing ) there goes the respect of the law.

Brother before hijrah it was only tableegh and the companian of the Prophet (PBUH) obey the Prophet. simple

Elected officials and high govt. officials should start respecting the law and lead by example

TARIQ

 

[mjnaushad]

assalam alaikum

Brother if ST did obey the law we would not be discussing this matter in fact he was even telling the ppl if she is convicted in higher court will not be punished ( goto hello all of u , meray jootay ki nook per etc )

If u mean FIR AGAINST ST ( these ppl have a an order from the supreme court to open the case of zardari and refusing ) there goes the respect of the law.

Brother before hijrah it was only tableegh and the companian of the Prophet (PBUH) obey the Prophet. simple

Elected officials and high govt. officials should start respecting the law and lead by example

TARIQ

Where he disobeyed to such level that he deserved death?????

If no one want to go the legal way and say that we know we wont get justice as zardari case(who is president and have immunity) then we all should start killing each other.... I have quite an enemies out there.....would be really helpful for me


Plus His point was those who misuse it get the same punishment......And its procedure should be improved.

 

[PoKeMon]

double post.........

 

[Spring Onion]

RIP to NS head

 

[All-Green]

Wa/salaams,

Just read the references in the article (forget abt the rest of article just references)

Jang Multimedia

if you have any doubts regarding the authenticity of Hadiths in this article, plz let us know.

The few cases mentioned are those of habitual blasphemy perpetrated by individuals who did it without provocation or ignorance (since the Prophet PBUH was alive and infront of them as an example) and the Prophet PBUH was diviney guided in the decision regarding their fate.
Mind you these are nearly all the instances where death was decreed by the Prophet PBUH.

I say divinely guided because otherwise the hypocrites in Medina did a lot worse, yet somehow no mention of such a punishment for the chief hypocrite and slanderer who should have met the same fate if this was indeed a general punishment as decreed by Quran.

Abdullah bin Ubaee was not punished despite his mention even in Quran:
“They (hypocrites) say: If we return to Al-Madinah, indeed the the more honourable (Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul, the chief of hypocrites at al-Madinah) will expell therefrom the meaner (i.e. Allah’s Messenger Muhammad, PBUH).” (Surah Al-Munaafqun 63: 8).

Nauz U Billah He called himself ‘honourable’ and the Holy Prophet ‘mean’ despite being a Muslim and a very learned man, surely his crime was ghastly because he himself met the Prophet PBUH and saw the signs of a true messenger of Allah and converted to Islam.
Yet he spewed poison with his tongue.

The son of Abdullah-bin-Ubai himself approached the Holy Prophet (peace be on him) and sought his permission to kill his father with his own hands so that he would not be moved by revenge if someone else kills his father.
The Holy Prophet refused to grant his request, nor did he permit anyone else from among his companions to punish the hypocrite, in any manner whatsoever.
(Narrated by Ibn-e-Ishaq:Al-Seeratun-Nabawiyya by Ibn-e-Hisham Part III, p 155)

It is interesting to note that Abdullah-bin-Ubai continued to live in peace in the city of Madinah which was ruled by the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and populated by the best of Muslims, yet he did not receive the bloody retribution we so heartily seek today.
What more, when he died a natural death, his funeral prayer was led by the Holy Prophet himself!

Rest assured i can present a lot more examples but my question has not been answered by any of you.

If someone is provoked, is he to blame entirely for an ugly verbal encounter...since after all no murder has been committed, the crime is word of mouth only and that too in anger and people who stand witness are bound to be biased since mostly it is some existing feud or enmity which is being pursued under the guise of religion.

If someone today who has no idea about the Prophet PBUH is acting in anger and reacting in an unfit frame of mind, is it the same as someone who writes elaborate poetry against Allah and his Prophet PBUH even when the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is alive infront of him and warns him?
To me the answer seems clear to me.

May Allah help us reach the true conclusion and may we have enough wits to value human life and think about such things with patience.

 

[afriend]

taseer is himself responsible for his death. the big mouth shudn't had provoked the religious feelings of the majority.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Tommrrow..somebody say you have said something against islam.. and knock your head off.. These jackassess are billittling islam.. as if.. if he dosent act.. islam is going to perish.. these guys dont know the purity of islam.. and the way its growing.. its not because of guns.. but its because of love..

so whoever says anything against islam.. is saying coz of its ignorance.. but then again ignorance dosent warrant death...

 

[a.dagha]

Don't worry about muslims during salman rushdie day i heard the same comment and islam spread more and now it is also spreading, we need not to be apologatic.

If we r in a mess it is bcoz of ST alikes who doesnot obey the law of the land

TARIQ

Sir, first off this has nothing to do with Salman Rushdie so please stop making connections where none exist. Secondly, if you think that Islam is growing and that it is an amazing thing, well, some of the poorest and worst governed countries in the world are muslim majority. Do you know how many muslims are leading supremely difficult lives? At this stage, the fact that we are growing so fast only means that we will all starve together.

Furthermore (and back to the topic) Islam itself does not permit people killing other people on grounds of blasphemy. The Holy Prophet s.a.w did not order killing people when they disrespected him. Remember Taif? Remember the conquest of Makkah and all the forgiveness? Remember the woman who used to abuse him every day? If you don't, read up and then think about the significance of these actions. What was he trying to teach us? Definitely not this. Not killing someone who 'hurts your sentiment'.

To say that only Holy Prophet has the right to forgive is very convenient. Basically what you are doing is finding a convenient excuse to ignore his examples.

People rooting for the blasphemy law are just ignorant and don't know that it was put in place by Zia. Yes, it is a man-made law, not divine. Did you know that? I bet you did not. And if you did, why do you think it should be untouchable. Surely a law made by man, can be struck down by man too. Alternatively, show me ONE verse from the Quran which says kill people who disrespect Islam or its Prophet. Just ONE.

Unfortunately, Pakistanis always want some 'muft ka sawab' and support anything that is 'supposedly' Islamic. No one thinks and if you question religion, you are either a Kaafir, Munafiq or my personal favourite 'Waajib-ul-Qatl'.

What a joke we Pakistanis have become in the eyes of the world.

Shameless murderous jokers completely out of sync with Islamic history, values and critical thinking.

FYI - Taking law into your own hands is also not permitted in Islam and is in-fact a severe crime.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Sir, first off this has nothing to do with Salman Rushdie so please stop making connections where none exist. Secondly, if you think that Islam is growing and that it is an amazing thing, well, some of the poorest and worst governed countries in the world are muslim majority. Do you know how many muslims are leading supremely difficult lives? At this stage, the fact that we are growing so fast only means that we will all starve together.

Furthermore (and back to the topic) Islam itself does not permit people killing other people on grounds of blasphemy. The Holy Prophet s.a.w did not order killing people when they disrespected him. Remember Taif? Remember the conquest of Makkah and all the forgiveness? Remember the woman who used to abuse him every day? If you don't, read up and then think about the significance of these actions. What was he trying to teach us? Definitely not this. Not killing someone who 'hurts your sentiment'.

To say that only Holy Prophet has the right to forgive is very convenient. Basically what you are doing is finding a convenient excuse to ignore his examples.

People rooting for the blasphemy law are just ignorant and don't know that it was put in place by Zia. Yes, it is a man-made law, not divine. Did you know that? I bet you did not. And if you did, why do you think it should be untouchable. Surely a law made by man, can be struck down by man too. Alternatively, show me ONE verse from the Quran which says kill people who disrespect Islam or its Prophet. Just ONE.

Unfortunately, Pakistanis always want some 'muft ka sawab' and support anything that is 'supposedly' Islamic. No one thinks and if you question religion, you are either a Kaafir, Munafiq or my personal favourite 'Waajib-ul-Qatl'.

What a joke we Pakistanis have become in the eyes of the world.

Shameless murderous jokers completely out of sync with Islamic history, values and critical thinking.

FYI - Taking law into your own hands is also not permitted in Islam and is in-fact a severe crime.

Sir when i mentioned rushdie it was in connection that islam is given a bad name coz at that time some of our brothers were telling us it is bad for islam so it is relevent.

Since u missed the 1st point naturally miss the other , some of our brothers were telling us that time ppl will shy away from islam in west but what happened was the opposite it is not about growth of population in muslim countries. It happened again after 9/11 many were cryings for the bad name of islam but as recent report from the country u live persons embracing islam doubled during the last decade.

Sir the only person was killed in fath makkah was a blasphmer ( i think u need to bring ur info of islamic history , values in sync i wil too)

Yes i know this law was before the partition and was refined and the death senence was recommanded by the islamic shairat court ( if i can remember) and the bill was passed in 1991 during nawaz period and zia's.

i hope u check this link
Jang Multimedia

TARIQ

 

[Irfan Baloch]

taseer is himself responsible for his death. the big mouth shudn't had provoked the religious feelings of the majority.

He never said anything that should have resulted in his death by the hands of that coward guard.


did you even bother yourself with actually finding out what the slain governor said? he requested the presidential pardon for the poor woman who was accused of blasphemy without valid proofs and personal grudges. Based on that and other incidents in the past he expressed his desire to have the law amended in a way that it cant be abused to settle personal scores. at no point he expressed his desire to change the very essence of the law. this law goes hand in hand with the Hadood ordinance which is a women specific law and even more draconian the details of which are so shameful and horrific that I dare not write anymore. Again the extreme right wing Jamaat Islami is up in arms against any amendment in it.

I say it with utter disgust and sorrow that Mumtaz Qadri abused his trust and killed an unarmed person without giving him a chance to say anything.. with such hate that he found it necessary to empty 2 clips of his sub machine gun. All in the name of a Holy Prophet PBUH who not only forgave people who insulted him, hurt him but killed his dear uncle and other followers.

why does a certain section of the Muslim society thinks that in order to assert their Muslim belief they "HAVE" to spill the Human blood? why on one hand these people dont spare a chance to not only mock all other religions but also dont spare other sects within Islam and if there is even a slight indication of a response, all hell is let loose.

tell me with all this attitude, with praising of a cold murderer, how are we showing ourselves to nonMuslims? are they not our prospect candidates for preaching Islam? with this kind of attitude do you think they will come close to us or run away in fear?

God forbid if this kind of blood thirsty mentality existed in early days of Islam then many famous Sahabah and their children would have had no chance to become Muslim. this extremist mindset reminds me of 151th to 17th century medieval Europe when political opponents, revolutionists, physicians, scientists and philosophers were lynched in the name of the Witch craft act. Joan of Arc who led the French freedom struggle was also captured and burnt alive on the charges of being a witch.

it seems that the similar attitude is going through the mindset of a certain section of Muslims who only see spilling of blood as a means to establish their faith.

my question to the fans of that coward cold killer who broke his oath is that have they ever given it a thought that shouting blasphemy without due thought is itself wrong? isnt it blasphemous of the Sunni council to say that expressing grief for the slain Governor is blasphemous? how dare they say that? they are using a word of such grave nature with such ease. at this rate it appears they will say whoever doesnt openly support Qadri is committing blasphemy.

whenever someone swears in the name of God and is actually lying. Allah says did you not find someone else and you had to drag my name in? I can imagine how Allah Subhan Ta'alah would see that His name and the name of His beloved Prophet Muhammad PBUH is being dragged in for the sake of religious hate politics. Muslims of the future would curl and cringe when they will read our history and will express sorrow that how a section of our society found it so essential to spill the blood of people just because it couldnt win the argument or prove that it was right with logic, knowledge and common sense.

 

[Abu Basit]

The few cases mentioned are those of habitual blasphemy perpetrated by individuals who did it without provocation or ignorance (since the Prophet PBUH was alive and infront of them as an example) and the Prophet PBUH was diviney guided in the decision regarding their fate.
Mind you these are nearly all the instances where death was decreed by the Prophet PBUH.

I say divinely guided because otherwise the hypocrites in Medina did a lot worse, yet somehow no mention of such a punishment for the chief hypocrite and slanderer who should have met the same fate if this was indeed a general punishment as decreed by Quran.

Abdullah bin Ubaee was not punished despite his mention even in Quran:
“They (hypocrites) say: If we return to Al-Madinah, indeed the the more honourable (Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul, the chief of hypocrites at al-Madinah) will expell therefrom the meaner (i.e. Allah’s Messenger Muhammad, PBUH).” (Surah Al-Munaafqun 63: 8).

Nauz U Billah He called himself ‘honourable’ and the Holy Prophet ‘mean’ despite being a Muslim and a very learned man, surely his crime was ghastly because he himself met the Prophet PBUH and saw the signs of a true messenger of Allah and converted to Islam.
Yet he spewed poison with his tongue.

The son of Abdullah-bin-Ubai himself approached the Holy Prophet (peace be on him) and sought his permission to kill his father with his own hands so that he would not be moved by revenge if someone else kills his father.
The Holy Prophet refused to grant his request, nor did he permit anyone else from among his companions to punish the hypocrite, in any manner whatsoever.
(Narrated by Ibn-e-Ishaq:Al-Seeratun-Nabawiyya by Ibn-e-Hisham Part III, p 155)

It is interesting to note that Abdullah-bin-Ubai continued to live in peace in the city of Madinah which was ruled by the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and populated by the best of Muslims, yet he did not receive the bloody retribution we so heartily seek today.
What more, when he died a natural death, his funeral prayer was led by the Holy Prophet himself!

Rest assured i can present a lot more examples but my question has not been answered by any of you.

If someone is provoked, is he to blame entirely for an ugly verbal encounter...since after all no murder has been committed, the crime is word of mouth only and that too in anger and people who stand witness are bound to be biased since mostly it is some existing feud or enmity which is being pursued under the guise of religion.

If someone today who has no idea about the Prophet PBUH is acting in anger and reacting in an unfit frame of mind, is it the same as someone who writes elaborate poetry against Allah and his Prophet PBUH even when the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is alive infront of him and warns him?
To me the answer seems clear to me.

May Allah help us reach the true conclusion and may we have enough wits to value human life and think about such things with patience.

As'salam o' Alaiqum,

i will request to please give full details of any incident you quoting. incomplete version will only mislead the people, like ibn Ubai's funeral, u'r version gave the impression that Prophet Muhammad Saw' always used to Pray for munafiqs. Following is the complete version:

Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 359:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

When 'Abdullah bin Ubai (the chief of hypocrites) died, his son came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Please give me your shirt to shroud him in it, offer his funeral prayer and ask for Allah's forgiveness for him." So Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) gave his shirt to him and said, "Inform me (When the funeral is ready) so that I may offer the funeral prayer." So, he informed him and when the Prophet intended to offer the funeral prayer, 'Umar took hold of his hand and said, "Has Allah not forbidden you to offer the funeral prayer for the hypocrites? The Prophet said, "I have been given the choice for Allah says: '(It does not avail) Whether you (O Muhammad) ask forgiveness for them (hypocrites), or do not ask for forgiveness for them. Even though you ask for their forgiveness seventy times, Allah will not forgive them. (9.80)" So the Prophet offered the funeral prayer and on that the revelation came: "And never (O Muhammad) pray (funeral prayer) for any of them (i.e. hypocrites) that dies." (9. 84)
......................................

You should have also told us as to why Prophet Muhammad Saw' didn't allowed his killing. Also, ibn Ubai was a munafiq (hypocrite), there's no punishment prescribed in Islamic Laws for a hypocrite. Your giving his example is totally irrelevant in this case.

btw, following is the detail, those who wanna understand will understand and those who don't, they will not.

Volume 006, Book 060, Hadith Number 428.

Narated By Jabir bin 'Abdullah : We were in a Ghazwa (Sufyan once said, in an army) and a man from the emigrants kicked an Ansari man (on the buttocks with his foot). The Ansari man said, "O the Ansar! (Help!)" and the emigrant said. "O the emigrants! (Help!) Allah's Apostle heard that and said, "What is this call for, which is characteristic of the period of ignorance?" They said, "O Allah's Apostle! A man from the emigrants kicked one of the Ansar (on the buttocks with his foot)." Allah's Apostle said, "Leave it (that call) as is a detestable thing." 'Abdullah bin Ubai heard that and said, 'Have the (the emigrants) done so? By Allah, if we return Medina, surely, the more honourable will expel there-from the meaner." When this statement reached the Prophet. 'Umar got up an, said, "O Allah's Apostle! Let me chop off the head of this hypocrite ('Abdullah bin Ubai)!" The Prophet said "Leave him, lest the people say that Muhammad kills his companions." The Ansar were then more in number than the emigrants when the latter came to Medina, but later on the emigrant increased.