Tamil Civilization - the Origins

[Bhairava]

Says who? You? are you a linguist? or even an Archaeologist?
We found an entirely new civilization that we had no idea existed purely with linguists.
And besides, we do have archaeological evidence.The Aryians brought with them things like the chariot. There is no mention of chariots in India before the Aryans. And we have found similar chariots in Iran/Central Asia.

Did Americans really invade you to give their F-16s ? Why not the chariot could have been a simple item of trade between neighboring communities ? No you dont have an answer to that. You "assume" ( amighty big assumption) that chariots were introduced only through invasions. WRONG.

So? No one said that the Aryans replaced the local population.
They Theory is that the Aryans invaded India, gave the Indians their language and other things and then melted into the population. Let me ask you, how many of those Indians tested had Mughal genetic markers? Does that mean the Mughals never invaded? Once again, motor oil does not prove that water does not exist.

Once again, lets not conflate "theory" with "facts". There are enough theeories going around that OBL was never found in Abbottabad and that 9/11 was an inside job with the Jews not coming to work that day. So again spare us your "theories".

Also the thing is Mughal invasion is a historically documented fact which cant be disproved while there exists no documentation to any "Aryan invasion". Moreover the genetic studies have proved not only the absence of any unique Aryan marker in the present population, but they have also proved that the Indian population had a common genetic character going back to 40,000 years. Now these are "facts". Not theories.

I understand that India is still a poor county that maybe things like archaeological and linguistic science is not that developed, but you have to understand that the Vedas are not the sole source of history. And making silly statements like that make you look like you just came out of some village and for the first time saw a street light and thought it was due to magic.

We might not know the motives be we do know that facts. That is how archaeology works. And no, we won't lay off it because we are not emotionally vested in keeping this a secret in order to spare your victim mentality and even your culture.

By that logic, Africans are the true owners of India since they came to India first. So you want to give up your house to an African?
Besides, irrelevant to the topic.

irrelevant balderdash for covering up the lack of facts.

And didn't you say linguistics is bunk? why do you believe the Sinic Altaic-Tungisc divide? I am sure using genetics we can find that those people do have similar genetic history.

I never disputed the existence of an Indo-Aryan vs Dravidian language system. Are you that thick not to understand the difference between language systems and races ?

 

[Bhairava]

Again instead of trying to answer the question put forth about the gaping holes in the AIT, all we get is stupid, irrelevant strawman arguments totally unrelated to it.

Again, mis-characterization of the theory.
"Hindus think that idols are literally Gods who can give them magical powers, but they can't even defend themselves since I can just knock one over and destroy it. Thus this is the proof that Hindus are wrong"
would you accept this characterization of Hindus?

Your interpretation of how Hinduism characterizes idols is wrong. Ok let me as ask you another ~ you say Allah is all-powerful. I say Allah is dumb. Nothing happens to me now. Does that mean Allah is not all-powerful ?

Hindus think of the idols as reflection of Gods, a gateway to Gods just like Muslims think of Kabba. It is easier to pray to God by looking at him as a physical entity than imagining some abstract form.


ps.s Just using an example, no need for anyone to get into a twist for me using Allah.

 

[I spikes therefore I am]

Again, mis-characterization of the theory.
"Hindus think that idols are literally Gods who can give them magical powers, but they can't even defend themselves since I can just knock one over and destroy it. Thus this is the proof that Hindus are wrong"
would you accept this characterization of Hindus?

Shall we launch missiles towards Mecca/Medina building your Allah/crap no 786 able to defend it? Big NO ryt tis is the proof that Muslims believes were wrong abt their religion.

 

[Yeti]

Death of the Aryan Invasion Theory


Aryan Invasion theory has been debunked for many years now its old news.

 

[Yeti]

Responses | The Story of India - Ask Michael Wood | PBS


This is a good link.


The question is, of course, very complex and is hotly argued over, and there is no question that the ‘Aryan theory' in the 19th century was subject to many racial interpretations in Europe where there was a fundamental antipathy to Hindu culture among many in the colonial class (this is recounted in a fine book by Thomas Trautmann — 'Aryans and British India' Vistaar Publications New Delhi,

 

[Neuro]

^^^
Once again go through this thread genetic evidences already provided wic proving Aryan-Dravidian theory. Sanskrit belongs to Indo-European/Indo-Iranian class but dravidian languages not belongs to such category. You want 2 say more?

 

[Yeti]

^^^
Once again go through this thread genetic evidences already provided wic proving Aryan-Dravidian theory. Sanskrit belongs to Indo-European/Indo-Iranian class but dravidian languages not belongs to such category. You want 2 say more?

That is the debate that some believe Sanskrit has it's roots outside of India and others who do not.




Hi Girish, thanks for your comments and your question. These are difficult questions as you can see from my answer above to Kamla, I stress I am no expert. I simply took the advice of experts, including I should say scholars like the great BB Lal and Prof SP Gupta who don't believe in an ‘Aryan' (or Indo-European speaking) migration. To be honest, it's one of the frustrations for a filmmaker of never having enough time to go into things in enough depth. The question of the Indus cities and the so-called ‘Aryans', Sanskrit and where it came from, etc., would be worth a big documentary film on its own. Inevitably we can only deal in broad strokes. But remember in all this the time scale that we rushed over in a few minutes: the spread of ancestral proto-Indo-European languages took place over several millennia (maybe from the Anatolian region — others disagree) starting maybe nine thousand years ago or more (others disagree!): the spread from Central Asia towards the Bactrian Margiana region well after 4th millennium BCE; and then into Iran and India (again, if you believe this version of the theory!) after 2000 BCE. Some experts think it possible that proto-Sanskritic speakers were already in Afghanistan and the NW Frontier before the Indus cities collapsed: but most experts believe that the earliest level of the Rig Veda hymns, shows no awareness of a great city civilisation like the Indus/Harappan world; nor does the Indus civilisation show any real similarity with the world portrayed in the Rig Veda hymns. All of which fits with complex interconnecting linguistic evidence suggesting the Rig Veda hymns go back to around 1500 BCE.



http://www.pbs.org/thestoryofindia/ask/answers_1.html

 

[Bhairava]

^^^
Once again go through this thread genetic evidences already provided wic proving Aryan-Dravidian theory. Sanskrit belongs to Indo-European/Indo-Iranian class but dravidian languages is unique. You want 2 say more?

Aryan-Dravidian theory regarding language and linguistic families...NOT races. Genetic evidences have proved that there was NO Aryan race or their intermingling with the native Indian race for the last 40,000 years.

Neuro, westerners AIT kondu varadhukku oru mukkiya karanam, namma madhathayum avanga oru veli naatula irundhu vandha madhama maatha paakaraanga...adhavadhu indiyavula irukkira ella madhamum veli naatula irundhhu vandhadhu thaan.....adhunala romba naal munnadi aryan (ஹிnத&#3009 pannunadha thaan pinnadi naal la thulukkargalum, vella karanagalum pannunaanga....avanga veli aalugana, ஹிnது vum veli aalu thaan. Just a divide and rule policy....purinjukko.

 

[Neuro]

Self delete

 

[Srinivas]

Dravidians exist every where in India, they adopted languages and culture based on the land they inhibited. This may be the very reason we see holy places through out India irrespective of language. There is a mix of culture happened in the due course of history in India.

 

[Srinivas]

Aryan-Dravidian theory regarding language and linguistic families...NOT races. Genetic evidences have proved that there was NO Aryan race or their intermingling with the native Indian race for the last 40,000 years.

Neuro, westerners AIT kondu varadhukku oru mukkiya karanam, namma madhathayum avanga oru veli naatula irundhu vandha madhama maatha paakaraanga...adhavadhu indiyavula irukkira ella madhamum veli naatula irundhhu vandhadhu thaan.....adhunala romba naal munnadi aryan (ஹிnத&#3009 pannunadha thaan pinnadi naal la thulukkargalum, vella karanagalum pannunaanga....avanga veli aalugana, ஹிnது vum veli aalu thaan. Just a divide and rule policy....purinjukko.

Aryan Invasion theory has no evidence, But throughout history people from north west and north east migrated to main land India in hordes and adopted customs and culture of this land. There is no clash of civilizations because of the migrated people as they accepted customs and civilization of this land, But clash occurred when these guys brought new religion called "Islam" and used it as a tool to subdue Indian subcontinent and tried to change religion and faith which will suit their rule. Again these migrants are very insignificant number compared to the indigenous people at the instant of their arrival into main land India.

There is no concrete evidence that Sanskrit originated in Central Asia or outside India, Every significant events associated with sanskrit and Vedic period happened inside main land India.

 

[Android]

I just dont understand pakistanis always support AIT on the other hand they claim they are the scion of IVC and indians shouldnt claim it

 

[scorpionx]

There is no concrete evidence that Sanskrit originated in Central Asia or outside India, Every significant events associated with sanskrit and Vedic period happened inside main land India.

According to some German philologists like Adelung,Muller etc there are evidences.

The people who belonged to Indo-Germanic family came to the North west India and spread to the rich,tropical Gangetic plain with time did not came to invade.This word is too harsh to explain their migration from a place still debated(Germany,central asia minor,east or west urals whatever). There used to be clashes with others but not as a clash between an invader and defenders. The hymns in the earliest hindu texts depicts the sanskrit speaking people truly seeing the vast region spreading from the far north west to the gangetic east as their own land,worshipping the main rivers of the region would be the best proof of which.

 

[Srinivas]

According to some German philologists like Adelung,Muller etc there are evidences.

The people who belonged to Indo-Germanic family came to the North west India and spread to the rich,tropical Gangetic plain with time did not came to invade.This word is too harsh to explain their migration from a place still debated(Germany,central asia minor,east or west urals whatever). There used to be clashes with others but not as a clash between an invader and defenders. The hymns in the earliest hindu texts depicts the sanskrit speaking people truly seeing the vast region spreading from the far north west to the gangetic east as their own land,worshipping the main rivers of the region would be the best proof of which.

Aryan word is derived from the place called "Aria" in the present day Afganistan adjacent to Iran. There is a huge controvery regarding who is Aryan, In Rigveda Aryan means "Noble" and there is prayer which says to GOD to convert non Aryan to Aryan. There is no evidence that these migrant people from north west own Sanskrit. As Hindi and other North Indian languages resemble close to Sanskrit than any other central asian languages and Germanic languages.

 

[scorpionx]

Aryan word is derived from the place called "Aria" in the present day Afganistan adjacent to Iran. There is a huge controvery regarding who is Aryan, In Rigveda Aryan means "Noble" and there is prayer which says to GOD to convert non Aryan to Aryan. There is no evidence that these migrant people from north west own Sanskrit. As Hindi and other North Indian languages resemble close to Sanskrit than any other central asian languages and Germanic languages.

This topic is vast and time consuming. Researchers still haunting for a concrete solution.Some philologists say Hindu-persian group of the original Indo-germanic family living in the north of Sogdiana,on the cold highland of Belurtag and mustag travelled the least and zend along with Sanskrit are the closest two branches to the common original stock.But there are counter arguments too. there are many contenders to confuse us here and sadly,most of them are with valid arguments.