Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[IND151]

1. Pakistan has actually used 2 engine fighter jets until recently and India's acquisition of Rafale might change their stance on 2 engine fighter jets. Although I believe Rafale is for countering China and not Pakistan.

2. Cost is likely to be lower as ruble value has fallen. Also, the Flyaway cost is believed to be in between $40-65M and that is before the fall in ruble value.

3. The Su-35 is a multi-role air superiority and the Su-35S which Pakistan has shown interest in is lighter than the Su-27 and the Su-30.

Its life cycle cost which matters and you didnt reply to 3rd point?

And Russia cant afford to sell SU 35 to Pakistan as India is biggest Operator of Flankers (barring Russia) and main partner in FGFA project which needs money seriously.

The SU 35 offer seems to be pressurising tactics aimed at India.

 

[SipahSalar]

please don't follow the Russian example and troll the Indians otherwise this thread will look like just any other thread in next few pages.

there is nothing to this news. re SU-35 it will be just the talks . nothing more than that. just look at what we operate and level of Indian and Russian relationship in defence.

the reality is the Mi-35 Hinds that will be used against smugglers and insurgents in Baluchistan, KPK and tribal areas.

Russia doesn't give a rat's *** if weapons are used against India or not. Russia sells a shitload of weapons to China, which are very likely to end up being used against India, these weapons include S-400 missiles, Su-27s and what not and that does not seem to have jeapordised Russian-Indian relationship. So surely Russia can sell it's best weapons to Pakistan without any conscience issues.

That being said, Pakistan may be reluctant to buy these Su-35's since buying them does not make any sense. The lesser variety of planes you fly, the easier the training of new recruits, the cheaper the logistics and maintenance.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

99% chance is PAF wont buy Su 35.

Reasons-

1. PAF Docrine-

PAF doctrine operate single engine, meduim/ light weight fighter only.
Now J 6 was twin engined but was a lightweight fighter.

SU 35 is a heavy multirole fighter.

2. Cost- It will be very costly, judging that in recent MKI order, each MKI costed India 102 Million Dollars.

Even with discounts, the SU 35 will cost no less than 90 Million dollars (lifecycle cost+ weapons).

3. Its Flanker- Su 35 belongs to flanker familiy. There are similraities between both SU 35 and Su 30 MKI and after Super MKI upgrade the difference will be very less.

Plus IAF has operated flankers more than 10 years which means it knows weaknesses and stengths thoroughly, a fact PAF cant overlook.

you summed it up well. its nothing more than just showing interest and having conversation (tea/ coffee, vodka talk ) on what Russia got and what Pakistan might have had if it had a different doctrine etc.

Mi-35 is no issue since its sale has no impact on relations and is insignificant and strictly against those terrorists that are Pakistan and Russian common enemies like Chechen etc operating in Pak/ Afghan border area

Russia doesn't give a rat's *** if weapons are used against India or not. Russia sells a shitload of weapons to China, which are very likely to end up being used against India, these weapons include S-400 missiles, Su-27s and what not and that does not seem to have jeapordised Russian-Indian relationship. So surely Russia can sell it's best weapons to Pakistan without any conscience issues..

you make a compelling point re what I bolded in your quote. but I still think Russia is different to USA.. it does care about India and even after easing relations with Pakistan, it refused to sell jets to Musharraf when we only had older block F-16s.

 

[cmpk1]

please don't follow the Russian example and troll the Indians otherwise this thread will look like just any other thread in next few pages.

there is nothing to this news. re SU-35 it will be just the talks . nothing more than that. just look at what we operate and level of Indian and Russian relationship in defence.

the reality is the Mi-35 Hinds that will be used against smugglers and insurgents in Baluchistan, KPK and tribal areas.

4 is the initial batch. Just like we've paid for just 2 AH-Z1 vipers.

There is just too much pessimism. I don't think deputy FM of Russia is making statements just for fun. Times change & so do strategies. I have no doubt that Russia will have a closer working relationship with Pakistan. Already have quite a few Russian equipment. Do you think we got JF17 engines without the approval of Russian higher ups? It has taken over a decade of diplomacy, such things take a lot of time. be patient.

 

[batmannow]

If we can manage to get two squadrons of SU-35 it would change entire scenario in fact I am pretty sure if we soon sign the deal even USA will offer us lot more F-16 and most latest version. USA and Russia specially after CPEC can't afford to ignore us.

That's the policy is !

 

[Irfan Baloch]

4 is the initial batch. Just like we've paid for just 2 AH-Z1 vipers.

There is just too much pessimism. I don't think deputy FM of Russia is making statements just for fun. Times change & so do strategies. I have no doubt that Russia will have a closer working relationship with Pakistan. Already have quite a few Russian equipment. Do you think we got JF17 engines without the approval of Russian higher ups? It has taken over a decade of diplomacy, such things take a lot of time. be patient.

again highlighting a very valid point

BUT

Su-35 is a completely different beast. its a top tier heavy weight fighter. there is simply no comparison to it against an engine sale approval for a modest light weight jet.

there is no pessimism from my side, just reality re our past and Indian factor. Russia Pakistan relationships are improving and they don't have to be military in nature.

 

[batmannow]

please don't follow the Russian example and troll the Indians otherwise this thread will look like just any other thread in next few pages.

there is nothing to this news. re SU-35 it will be just the talks . nothing more than that. just look at what we operate and level of Indian and Russian relationship in defence.

the reality is the Mi-35 Hinds that will be used against smugglers and insurgents in Baluchistan, KPK and tribal areas.

Sure then next time when any Russian depty FM talks on any thing we should consider it just hearsay ?
BTW Russia has the best military hard ware next to america , we won't be buying patatos from them ?
Russians & Chinese feel Indian policies in the region as a threat to thier national interests & they feel that by opening up Iran Americans are making a new political & economical block so they are pushing INDIA as the new god father in south east Asia ?
With that said China as the key financial player in the region will never support any of political or economical edge of India through its military might ?
There for it will directly or indirectly support pakistans defences .
Su 35 is just another step on that !

 

[Pindi Boy]

We rejected American Fighter F16 and F18 because we knew either we can fly Su30 or F18s in one time.

That's why we choose neutral France .




That's what I am quoting. It's all business. Pakistan would have to sell itself to match Indian business with Russian Hardware. Isn't $250billionGDP of Pakistan ?



We see some translation discrepancy in that article. Article mentioned pakistan as Russia's closest ally which is non-sense. Let some time pass, truth will emerge.

P abay tu kyun jal rha hai ?????

 

[Yaduveer]

Sure then next time when any Russian depty FM talks on any thing we should consider it just hearsay ?
BTW Russia has the best military hard ware next to america , we won't be buying patatos from them ?

"The Russian Deputy FM Ryabkov referred to Pakistan as Russia's closest partner " Do you believe this line ?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If we can manage to get two squadrons of SU-35 it would change entire scenario in fact I am pretty sure if we soon sign the deal even USA will offer us lot more F-16 and most latest version. USA and Russia specially after CPEC can't afford to ignore us.

as the Punjabis always say to me

گل ای کوی نی

you made it seem way too easy. we might as well ask sorry I mean demand F-35 as well while we are at it

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think the su is dual engine. Didn't turkey offered us some dual engine for students?


Why are we going for dual engine and Russian crafts? Focus on getting f16s, make jf better and start working on a 5th/6th gen fighter (they take 10-15 years) or spend money on drone which come out cheaper.

New and used F16s are needed.

 

[Yaduveer]

P

I won't lie , we are surprised !
But luckily this time,we have enough cards to stall any such deals.

but blind trust on Ruskies has disappeared as fart in the wind.

 

[nomi007]

 

[cmpk1]

again highlighting a very valid point

BUT

Su-35 is a completely different beast. its a top tier heavy weight fighter. there is simply no comparison to it against an engine sale approval for a modest light weight jet.

there is no pessimism from my side, just reality re our past and Indian factor. Russia Pakistan relationships are improving and they don't have to be military in nature.

i would've sided with you, but since US is now taking defence orders from India, situation has changed. Russians are now open to deal with us, India will have no reason to whine & cry.

plus, another favourable factor is the fact that both countries have been engaged in talks since Gen Musharaf days, & we've come a long way in past decade, now things will move to the next level for sure.

Russians have huge investment opportunities now .i.e energy sector, defence & the CPEC. They just can't ignore Pakistan anymore, specially the way India back stabbed Russia & hugged US.

 

[batmannow]

"The Russian Deputy FM Ryabkov referred to Pakistan as Russia's closest partner " Do you believe this line ?

For now yes , countries policies changes with their national interests for now russias national interests are with China & for them Pakistan is far more trusted allay then of India ?