Talking to the Taliban

[Pk_Thunder]

[/U][/B]
What happened to the 'freedom' that you were preaching earlier? HOw typical! This is exactly what i am talking about. what happened to the copyright of pashto language belonging to pakistan? lol...
Urdu language is imposed upon the pashtuns living in NWFP exactly the same way as you are imposing your own rules here, not the rule of the forum. If someone wants to speak with his/her pashtuns in pashto, she/he should go to private according to u. This is the same way as if someone wants to learn his/her mother lanugage pashto, should go and learn it. GO WHERE?! lol. They should have every right to learn their mother because mother tongue is precious. For how long are you going to dictate people. Remember one thing my pakistani friend, some people were born to be enslaved, for instance being part of colonial british army while others are born to LIVE FREE whom the mighty british couldn't conquer.

now how on earth u say that urdu is being imposed on us in NWFP???????i m from NWFP and have studied pushto as well along with urdu in school..being a pukhtun i m very very proud to be a pakistani and whatever u say,i m a pakistani first..have u ever been to peshawar????????if no then how come u say that we pukhtuns are living oppressed life here.we are not deprived of our rights we enjoy full freedom here,and why exactly should i tell u about that..u first free ur own country from the clutches of US and NATO forces and live with freedom then ask about others. this is the flag we live for and this is the flag we pukhtuns will die for.
BTW do u know jansher khan,jehangir khan,younas khan,umer gul,shahid afridi,zersanga,khayal mohammad,rahim shah and the list goes on and on...they all are pukhtuns.

 

[blain2]

In my humble opinion, Nangialay puts forward the same views as those that I have encountered in meeting many Afghans (mostly young) in the West who have suddenly re-discovered their nationalism. So very big on "Afghan" nationalism and not much else. Living in the past recalling the history of the great Afghans (which you have a right to, all have a right to claim their heritage), and a great sense of superiority over others (especially Pakistanis...believe me the SDRE Indians (pun intended guys) have nothing to worry about the Pakistani claims of superiority..they have yet to run into the high and mighty Afghan sense of superiority)

The days of Zahir Shah are the glory days for them and they can't seem to get past those days. Pakistan is definitely on the $hitlist because of the Taliban issue and there is typically no understanding of the Pakistani compulsions, reasons for doing this, and usually never any effort to understand it either nor is there any motivation to understand what Pakistanis have gone through due to the problems in Afghanistan. The hate for Russians and their misadventures pales in comparison to the disdain they have for Pakistan (most Pakistanis have got used to ignoring this disdain .

Overall only time can remove this ill-will.

However I must say that I have had excellent friendships with both Darri and Pashtu speaking Afghans over the years. Politics aside, Afghans are some of the most hospitable and loving people around. Just keep the politics out!

 

[Awesome]

In my humble opinion, Nangialay puts forward the same views as those that I have encountered in meeting many Afghans (mostly young) in the West who have suddenly re-discovered their nationalism. So very big on "Afghan" nationalism and not much else. Living in the past recalling the history of the great Afghans (which you have a right to, all have a right to claim their heritage), and a great sense of superiority over others (especially Pakistanis...believe me the SDRE Indians (pun intended guys) have nothing to worry about the Pakistani claims of superiority..they have yet to run into the high and mighty Afghan sense of superiority)

The days of Zahir Shah are the glory days for them and they can't seem to get past those days. Pakistan is definitely on the because of the Taliban issue and there is typically no understanding of the Pakistani compulsions, reasons for doing this, and usually never any effort to understand it either nor is there any motivation to understand what Pakistanis have gone through due to the problems in Afghanistan. The hate for Russians and their misadventures pales in comparison to the disdain they have for Pakistan (most Pakistanis have got used to ignoring this disdain .

Overall only time can remove this ill-will.

However I must say that I have had excellent friendships with both Darri and Pashtu speaking Afghans over the years. Politics aside, Afghans are some of the most hospitable and loving people around. Just keep the politics out!

Our relations with them weren't good before the Taliban either. They were I think only good when they were in trouble with someone else.

The best way to deal with the Afghans, is their greed. These days India has them bought, tomorrow it should be us. Once the Americans leave, they can't even get basic food items in and out of their country. Bribe whoever seems to be in power and keep them loyal to Pak.

The country is already destroyed beyond repair.

 

[DarkStar]

I second to what you just said, blain. But I must mention, that I have had the pleasure of the company of certain AFghanis who love Pakistan, and are grateful for what Pakistan and Pakistanis have done to help them in the past three decades. I was told how many AFghans even named their sons ZIA after the Pakistani Leader General Zia ul Haq.

And, God Forbid, I have heard even a farsibaan tajik sing the praises of "Ameerul Momineen", so one can say that people like nangialay do not represent the whole afghan nation.

 

[DarkStar]

Asim Aquil, the Russians say the AFghan cannot be beaten, they can only be bought. I guess they were a bit short of cash which is why it all went hay-wire for them.

 

[Neo]

You're right about the conquering part. Before the USA launched it's attack on AFghanistan, it sought advice from many countries. Russia was also asked, considering its vast experience in the AFghan theater. The advice given by Putin was simple and poignant. Don't look to defeat them, look to buy them. Guns and Dollars is the only way to do it. A million dollars and a satellite phone per commander did the trick. The afghans then withdrew from the front lines, leaving the ARabs, Chechens and Pakistanis in the lurch, as the last stand in Kunduz unfolded. At one time, afghani Talibs actually attacked the ARab and Pakistani positions themselves, to force them to surrender.

So broke the myth of the AFghan warrior. There are no more Ghauris, Ghaznavis, Baburs in you. They migrated east a long time ago, and the rest do not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the above.

What do you expect from a nation that survives on narcotics ?

 

[BATMAN]

Urdu language is imposed upon the pashtuns living in NWFP

I think it was indian movies which has promoted Urdu language in Afghanistan more than any minority immigrants living in Pakistan.

Majority of migrants (much more than 5&#37 were Punjabi speaking and not Urdu speaking and the Urdu which is our national language is far different than any Urdu being spoken among indians or Karachities.
Urdu is a Turkish word and it means military and it is the language of indian rulers, who were from Afghan-Turk-Persian ethnicity.
We are a multiculti nation so is our national language Urdu!

 

[Neo]

President Karzai and Mullah Umar​

What should one make of Afghan president Hamid Karzai’s appeal to the Taliban leader Mullah Muhammad Umar that he should “return home” under guarantees of safety and “help bring peace to Afghanistan”? President Karzai says he has been “sending messages to the Saudi Arabian king requesting him, as a world Muslim leader, to help us bring peace in Afghanistan”. On the other hand, Mullah Umar seems least inclined to return home to Mr Karzai’s embrace. His latest statement is that he can engage in negotiations to give the NATO-ISAF forces “safe passage” out of Afghanistan.

What was the intent of the Karzai statement? On the face of it the appeal looks like a non-starter, but becomes meaningful because General David McKiernan, the commander of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) supports it with the observation that “the solution in Afghanistan will ultimately be a political one”. Has he supported the Karzai initiative because he senses some tribal opposition in Afghanistan and Pakistan to the attacks mounted by the Taliban elements? He has also pointedly sent for more troops for what he said is an increasingly “tough fight” in eastern and southern Afghanistan.

Has the war against terrorism reached the “tipping point” in Afghanistan? Not at all, if you look at the casualty figures on the NATO-ISAF side. In fact the year 2008 has been declared “the bloodiest so far in Afghanistan for the NATO and US since the Taliban were removed from government in 2001”. Senior defence officials in the UK admit that “the Taliban are proving more resilient than expected”. As far as the British troops are concerned, “British forces are now being killed in Afghanistan at a faster rate than during the invasion of Iraq”. Britain has 7,800 troops, stationed mainly in Helmand Province, while the US has some 33,000 troops in Afghanistan in total, with 13,000 of those serving as part of the NATO-led coalition.

The only encouraging sign for President Karzai would be the casualty rate of the Taliban in Bajaur where the Pakistan army is executing a successful operation to win back territory lost to foreign and local terrorists. Mullah Umar seemed to be under some pressure when he appealed recently to the Taliban that they should not destroy schools and not target women and children. Is the Karzai message telling Mullah Umar: “Look, you are getting a drubbing in Pakistan, why not come home and be my partner in bringing peace to Afghanistan?”

On the other hand, there are reasons why Mullah Umar and President Karzai are an explosive mix and will not sup together on anything. In fact, there is a vendetta between the two Pashtuns which will end only after one of them is killed. Mr Karzai lived in Quetta starting 1983 and fell foul of the Taliban in 1999 when Mullah Umar had his father assassinated in Quetta. Mr Karzai thinks the ISI had a hand in it. He was in the Mujaddidi government after the Soviets left Afghanistan. He was kicked out of the Mujaddidi government by the Tajiks, but later he fell foul of Mullah Umar too by not going along with his extremist sharia. In 1999 Mr Karzai took his dead father’s body to Kandahar to reclaim headship of the Popalzai branch of the Durranis. In 2000, Al Qaeda backed the Taliban against the Northern Alliance with its Brigade 555 culled from North African Arab fighters, IMU from Uzbekistan, Filipino Moros, jihadi militias from Pakistan and groups from Chechnya and Xinjiang. Mr Karzai was on the wrong side and after a period of eclipse came centre stage in 2001 when Afghanistan was finally attacked under the UN Charter. Today, the vendetta remains unrequited and there are no holds barred between Mr Karzai and Mullah Umar.

Is the Karzai-NATO combination growing weak? Not likely on the eve of a change of government in the United States that is promising a bi-partisan consensus on an enhanced role of the NATO-ISAF forces in Afghanistan. In Pakistan, however, there is growing sense that Afghanistan can normalise only after the Americans leave there. Meanwhile, “official” Pakistan is worried about the Indian presence in Afghanistan and is probably piqued by the fact that it went into Afghanistan seeking “strategic depth” against India and has ended up with India breathing down its neck across the Durand Line. The region needs a three-way political arrangement which puts Kabul, Islamabad and New Delhi at ease, bound as the three countries are geographically and strategically. Any new American effort must keep this in mind. The only way America can disengage from Afghanistan is by finding that delicate balance. *

 

[fatman17]

The only way America can disengage from Afghanistan is by finding that delicate balance. *

america's recent history is not too encouraging on this point. furthermore a peace in afghanistan will come under the UN flag and when both mullah umar and karzai are marginalised / sidelined. the pashtuns have to finally realise that if they want a significant share / say in any new afghan govt. it must have friendly relations with pakistan first and foremost as all its commerce is dependent on transit trade through pakistan including indian trade.

 

[Zero Bravo]

The best way to deal with the Afghans, is their greed. These days India has them bought, tomorrow it should be us. Once the Americans leave, they can't even get basic food items in and out of their country. Bribe whoever seems to be in power and keep them loyal to Pak.

The country is already destroyed beyond repair.

Its not the 'sold out' issue. Afghans see Pakistanis as resopnsible for many disputes in Afghanistan; the true enemies of Afghanistan. Thats what Afghans consider the Pakistanis.

Those were Pakistanis who supported Gulbaden Hekmatyar against Ahmad Shah Masoud during the civil war. Then came the Taleban with complete backup from Pakistanis. Afghans see both issues as their own internal disputes and Pakistan's influence in these issues as 'Interfering'.

On other hand, Indians have a clear resume in Afghanistan. Moreover, Afghans follow the global notion; "The enemy of one's enemy is the friend".

In the light of current circumstances in Pakistan, my guess is that Pakistan is heading fast where Afghanistan currently is; the full break down. If Pakistanis keep bombing their own people and America hurting the Pakistan' sovereignty, I bet Pakistan would reach the same destination in a couple of years.

At that time, we both (Afghans and Pakistanis) would be begging the Indians for basic needs of life. And this is a shame!

So dont ridicule Afghanistan, you better be praying for Pakistan along with Afghanistan. You are not far away from 'full devastation'. Accept the fact. (Dont take my assumption as a curse, please).

May God bring prosperity and security in the whole Muslim World not just in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

 

[DarkStar]

Why don't you see Russia as interfering when so called General Abdul Rashid Dostam had no support, but they kept on supplying him arms and ammunition?? Why dont you see as Iran and India being interfering, when Ahmad Shah masood was the last man to stand between a peaceful and a divided AFghanistan? Why dont you blame the iranians and indians in supplying them weapons??

Blame Pakistan and General Zia ul Haq for putting our sovereignty, our existance, our young martyrs lives on the line to save your sorry *****.

Why dont you blame the Iranians who supported hizbe wahdat hazara militias, which stabbed the mujahideen in the back at teh opportune moment?

Pakistan's biggest fault was allowing so many refugees to come in, and have a soft heart for them. How our women would save up their money, and donate it for Afghan refugees with tears in their eyes. Even now, when I visit Pakistan, most people feel sympathy towards AFghanis, while many of them have only contempt for us.

There's a saying in Urdu "Jis par Mehrbani karo, us kay sharr say bacho" Beware of the evil of the person you have been gracious towards.

Afghanis sook refuge in Iran also, tell me how many AFghanis in USA, Germany, UK do you see who'se famlies are in Iran? Almost to a man, they came via Pakistan. Iran did not give them the opportunity to leave their rotten camps, to get jobs, or engage in commerce, which is why they are still languishing there. Maybe we should have treated you like your farsi speaking brothers, and then you'd see teh state you are in.

In pakistan, you have taken prime locations in places like hayatabad, and islamabad as your residences, increasing the amounts of rent that Pakistanis themseves have to pay. I will not speculate on how you make the rent for those places, only that Pashtun AFghans accuse them of being TAjiks, and TAjiks say they are Pashtuns.

You get your food from us, your water from us, your clothes from us, and what do you do? You use the transit shipment system, to illegally smuggle goods back across the border to make a killing on the tax margins.

Tell me, if Pakistan were to be destabilised, how many Pakistani refugees will be invited into KAbul???

 

[Zero Bravo]

Russians are not appreciated in Afghanistan either, nor are the the Iranians.

Indians have never had any sort of 'distinct' involvement in any issue in Afghanistan. This is why Afghans have 'a soft corner in their hearts' for them.

 

[Zero Bravo]

Maybe we should have treated you like your farsi speaking brothers, and then you'd see teh state you are in.

@darkstar bhai,

Here you admit how you treated and have been treating Afghans.
for your information, Farsi speaking are Afghans too. To you, we may be different, however, we consider Pashto speakers and Farsi speakers as the ONE nation!

 

[muse]

we consider Pashto speakers and Farsi speakers as the ONE nation

!

BS. No Afghan thinks of any other as nationality or ethnicuity as their nation, and vice versa - the tajik despise the Pashtun as being uncultured and ignorant, the Tajik argue that that the Pashtun are usurpers, new comers who do nothing but demand more and more in return for not terrorizing everybody else.

I don't know where we get these people from, they come on the forum and think anything will pass muster.

 

[Zero Bravo]

!

BS. No Afghan thinks of any other as nationality or ethnicuity as their nation, and vice versa - the tajik despise the Pashtun as being uncultured and ignorant, the Tajik argue that that the Pashtun are usurpers, new comers who do nothing but demand more and more in return for not terrorizing everybody else.

Every nation has 'black sheep' among it. I do accapt there are some narrowmindeds who think so. But, when it comes to talking to foreigners about fellow Afghans, we cant tolerate any resentment toward our fellow Afghans whether they are Hazaras, Tajiks or Pashtons.

In your country, I have seen many Pakistani Pashtoons who despise Panjabis and see them as tyrants. You dont believe it? Go to Chaman or Quetta, you would even see wall chalking stating; "We condemn Panjabi invasion on Baluchistan". Its usual in all nations.

I don't know where we get these people from, they come on the forum and think anything will pass muster

btw, I always try to have pleasant relations with you guyz, but I dunno why do you get mad on me?!