Taliban Want to Annex Parts of Pakistan to Afghanistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

India seeks conventional military parity with China and in the distant future with maybe even USA. Pakistan is sucked into this game on its own accord.

I made no comment regarding this.

Any military operation b/w India and Pakistan will necessitate a response from India which will seek to keep its intensity within check so as not to escalate/ exacerbate the situation and give Pak an excuse to declare nukes are an option.

Whether a military operation is instigate by India or Pakistan, a prosperous Pakistan ensures a conventional deterrent that will not allow any significant advantage to India, as happened in Op. Parakaram, and I would argue that was at one of the heights of conventional disparity between the two.

Pak has nukes, missiles to deliver them, and all its enemies within its missile ranges.. why the need for conventional parity??

Opreration Parakaram - Nukes are a last resort, and their use almost certainly ensures MAD. Much better to also have a conventional deterrent, to prevent even any small scale military operations or threats.

Like most Indians I believe Pak supports cross-border terrorism and Jihadist policy because the ultimate reason is that Pak is not prosperous and neither has right policies.

So it is in India's interest to Help Pak achieve economic growth and have a democratically elected govt. that's why Bhutto was loved by Indians.

Obviously I think that is a ridiculous rationale - sort of instep with the "Muslims are jealous of US freedoms" cockamamie argument.

Its a wonderful argument for the GoI and Indian media to sell to their populace - it dehumanizes Pakistan and Pakistanis, and removes the likelihood of looking at history and events to understand the dynamics between the two nations since Independence that have molded our history and driven our relationship.

I would strongly wager, however, that the GoI and Indian Military are not quite so naive. Prosperity for Pakistan, they realize, makes Pakistan stronger as a nation and as a military - that is not good news for India so long as the India-Pak relationship remains hostile.

Re-Unification??? I believe some ultra-rad Hindu groups with their idea of Akhanda Bharata believe in annexation of areas under the so-called Indosphere and (I don't think they like Muslims so) for them concern is for land not people.

In any case I don't think Indians even those with Pak heritage desire their ancestral homeland. I think what most Indians want to do is bury differences and have a closer relationship(something like Nepal-India, Eu-esque, Canada-US etc) which Pakistanis also want (at least the ones I met last week told me so).

Whether Partition was wrong/right is a thing left to historians, Internet forums and the Older generation, perhaps.

Pakistanis want a friendly relationship with India as well. I don't necessarily see people as an issue.My reference to a "lack of desire to see a stable and prosperous Pakistan" is from the perspective of the GoI and Indian Military.

Also, its not just the "ultra rad Hindu Groups", a lot of "secular" posters implicitly suggest the same, but I will take your word that the majority of Indians have accepted Pakistan's existence as a separate nation.

 

[Neo]

Kabul has to realise that the Durand Line is now IB and its there to stay not matter what, we will never compromise a single inch of our territory.

Its time we took matters into our own hands and enter Afghanistan to finish the job.

 

[solid snake]

Kabul has to realise that the Durand Line is now IB and its there to stay not matter what, we will never compromise a single inch of our territory.

Its time we took matters into our own hands and enter Afghanistan to finish the job.

I agree. We must go there and wipe out these enemies of Pakistan ourselves.

 

[Malang]

Whether a military operation is instigate by India or Pakistan, a prosperous Pakistan ensures a conventional deterrent that will not allow any significant advantage to India, as happened in Op. Parakaram, and I would argue that was at one of the heights of conventional disparity between the two.

AM, I feel the conventional difference b/w Pak and India will continue to widen at least over the next 3 decades.

Op Parakaram, Brazen Chariots etc. are all Chest-thumping measures to show the world that India will not follow the Path of Gandhi if provoked. (If Pakistan's retaliates in a similar manner I feel it'll help India I think)

Opreration Parakaram - Nukes are a last resort, and their use almost certainly ensures MAD. Much better to also have a conventional deterrent, to prevent even any small scale military operations or threats.

I differ here, Pak can threaten to use Nukes as and when it feels the need to do so, this is deterrent enough. No country on earth can invade Pak and conquer it nor I think India feels the need to attack Pakistan (first and not in retaliation). Kargil War was proof of nuke deterrence.

Obviously I think that is a ridiculous rationale - sort of instep with the "Muslims are jealous of US freedoms" cockamamie argument. its a wonderful argument for the GoI and Indian media to sell to their populace - it dehumanizes Pakistan and Pakistanis, and removes the likelihood of looking at history and events to understand the dynamics between the two nations since Independence that have molded our history and driven our relationship.

What you mention is a motive/or the fundamental reason for it but the circumstances that allow one to pursue those motives are a lack of opportunities or educational facilities or rise of Islamism or unemplyment etc.

For eg. Hindu zealots tore down Babri Masjid.
Now a rich Muslim person who has his business etc. will not likely take up arms to fight, He may give money, may write in the newspapers etc.
A poor, uneducated, unemployed Muslim may be incited to fight and most likely he will take up arms.

Even in the case of '84 riots against Sikhs or Khalistan movement the middle and upper class Sikhs(incl. the high caste and urban ones) were not affected by riots nor supported Khalistan but were along with Hindus made targets of extortions and killings by the terrorists.

I would strongly wager, however, that the GoI and Indian Military are not quite so naive. Prosperity for Pakistan, they realize, makes Pakistan stronger as a nation and as a military - that is not good news for India so long as the India-Pak relationship remains hostile. Pakistanis want a friendly relationship with India as well. I don't necessarily see people as an issue.My reference to a "lack of desire to see a stable and prosperous Pakistan" is from the perspective of the GoI and Indian Military.

though I feel otherwise but even if its a possibility the absolute lack of political will, will ensure that it remains a desire only.
I don't think India wants to see Pak doing better than them but not that badly that it creates a pressure on them. competitiveness spurs excellence.
and ultimately India cannot interfere if Pak decides to follow a road to prosperity and vice versa, one may create lil' hiccups but once the juggernaut starts rolling, it rolls over everything.

Also, its not just the "ultra rad Hindu Groups", a lot of "secular" posters implicitly suggest the same, but I will take your word that the majority of Indians have accepted Pakistan's existence as a separate nation.

This is from my interactions. You may assume their enmity/hatred/refutations to be desire to conquer. But ultimately reunification/conquering is unfeasible and undesirable.

Though I have seen quite a lot of Pak posters seeking a desire to crush India which naturally face to face interactions was not present.

offtopic/

I still don't see anti-Pak propaganda in the Indian media. In fact people whom I have met said that Pak was better off than India in the 60's and 70's and even till the early 90s be it in terms of economy, society, military, infrastructure, cricket team etc.
When cable tv was unveiled in India, it had ads of all the latest gadgets being sold in Pakistan which Indians thought were only available abroad. Ladies still go mad over Libas magazine, Pak designers and Bareeze Suits. Pak food is considered the ultimate so are the traditional costumes(tailors, design etc), Pak TV at one time pre-Cable was very popular in North India, Pak singers, actors, models are also very popular in India.
NDTV is totally pro-Pak at times. People still speak of the hospitality shown during cricket series and this hospitality I am told is irreplicable in India.
Many Indians(esp below Punjab and Himachal) are totally unaware that India at the moment controls only 40% of Kashmir and that Jammu region is actually Hindu Majority and that Ladakh has 40%+ Muslims. If you talk to an uninformed Indian or one who has not interacted with Kashmirs may actually be apologetic about Indian presence in Kashmir.

finally: by any chance is your fav book oxford's english dictionary?

 

[haviZsultan]

Kabul has to realise that the Durand Line is now IB and its there to stay not matter what, we will never compromise a single inch of our territory.

Its time we took matters into our own hands and enter Afghanistan to finish the job.

I second that!

 

[mujahideen]

I agree. We must go there and wipe out these enemies of Pakistan ourselves.

The enemy is inside Pakistan. Those millions of Afghan refugees are the enemy. I gaurantee you the day they are kicked out of Pakistan, 50% of our porblems will be solved.

 

[haviZsultan]

The enemy is inside Pakistan. Those millions of Afghan refugees are the enemy. I gaurantee you the day they are kicked out of Pakistan, 50% of our porblems will be solved.

I tend to agree

2000-3000 fighters of Pakistani taliban who were fighting us are afghans according to PN.... Every afghan pashtun will talk to you about pashtunistan and how Pakistan should be broken. 80% of crime in Peshawar is due to Afghans. They bring terrorism and the idea of Pashtunistan is solely their idiocy. The patriotism shown by pak pashtuns is well known and i would like to model my own upon theirs but still they try to divide us... Every afghan i met on youtube has never said anything good about us but has always been swearing at us. It does'nt matter if hes not pashtun either. They all want to kill us and want us dead. First thing they throw a lot of bullshit about Isi and taliban...

YouTube - Re: Pashtuns, Waziris, Swatis, Tajiks,Uzbeks, Hazaras, DIE !

This is what they think about us. Also take ur time to read the comments on that page please. Also the bastard chaudrysaab is an Indian or Afghan but is no Pakistani. Anyone who watches his videos can figure it out. His views are stupid and uses the guise of a patriotic pakistani to mislead people and divide us. He is acting like a punjabi and insulting pashtun brothers and sisters.

I have done a lot of swearing when i had an account cauz this is intolerable. The animals were celebrating during the Lahore blasts saying the more Pakistanis killed the better. "It will make it easier for us to taker over peshawar and pashtun areas of Pakistan."

 

[haviZsultan]

Question is will we continue to tolerate this idiotic behavior? We really have to do something about this. My friend in sharan has been attacked for being a Pakistani and says if u want to be killed f4 being a Pakistani then u shud go to afghanistan. I have gone to kabul and i was given a lot of bullshit about pakistani terrorism and "ISI"

 

[khanz]

The enemy is inside Pakistan. Those millions of Afghan refugees are the enemy. I gaurantee you the day they are kicked out of Pakistan, 50% of our porblems will be solved.

I don't usually sound this nationalistic but I totally agree i've said this many times on this forum afghanistan is no 1 enemy not india not israel and not even america it's the refugees we need to wall up and mine our western border and shoot any afghan trying to cross it starting asap .Do u know they were the only country to vote against our recognition in the UN and also invaded pak back in it's early days but were beaten back by the army this is exactly the same reason iran also kicks out all their afghan refugees and look how safe they are .
The most dangerous and irritating thing of all is that theres many pakistanis who still have a love affair with afghanistan and the taliban just because their muslims and defend them at all costs what they realize they only use pakistan for their own gain and will not hesitate to turn on it and destroy it when the use is over.Wake up pakistan before it's too late close the border for your own sake

 

[dabong1]

The enemy is inside Pakistan. Those millions of Afghan refugees are the enemy. I gaurantee you the day they are kicked out of Pakistan, 50% of our porblems will be solved.

I doubt that very much.........

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

one way to look at this bs article is to remember the past, before WoT. now tell me, how long as taliban been ruling afghanistan? they have been ruling for some years now and have never given pakistan any problems, no suicide bombers, no explosions, nothing.

now tell me, everytime someone occupies afghanistan, we have suicide bombers, explosions on soldiers and cities. don't tell everyone forgot the bombings during the soviet-afghan era, KGB-KHAD-R&AW nexus.

as for R&AW, i really wish it was india that was behind all this. unfortunately, india is not behind all of this. we are dealing with terrorist who are using C4's and advanced methods of encryption. we cannot even manage to destroy the supply lines of these terrorists.

doesn't anyone remember, baitullah mehsud and his brother abdullah were in guantanamo bay, cuba. can anyone tell me what he is doing in pakistan and why is he here in the first place?

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

my advice to some members here, is to actually remind the afghan refugees that pakistan has been more of a home to them than afghanistan. we shouldn't spend time blaming others, rather, we should take action. let's do what's best for the country.

let's remind some afghani's to always be supportive of pakistan, even when they return back home to afghanistan. above all things, we as muslims, should not be fighting each other. why are we letting ethnic ties separate us? this will only destroy us, just like it did in 1971. the muslims are one nation, it will do us well to remember that.

 

[mujahideen]

my advice to some members here, is to actually remind the afghan refugees that pakistan has been more of a home to them than afghanistan. we shouldn't spend time blaming others, rather, we should take action. let's do what's best for the country.
let's remind some afghani's to always be supportive of pakistan, even when they return back home to afghanistan. above all things, we as muslims, should not be fighting each other. why are we letting ethnic ties separate us? this will only destroy us, just like it did in 1971. the muslims are one nation, it will do us well to remember that.

It time to remind they that their stay is over and they must go back to their own country. And if they refuse to go quietly, well then we know how to do it forcefully.

 

[never]

what a disgraceful video by these bastards, they are backstabbing cowards, as when they enter pakistan it is with their head bowed. our neighbours are very similar.
any how the mask they wear is slipping and they will get what they diserve. rubbish nation as hazrat saadi shiraazi described them. pygmie nation.

 

[Asif Afridi]

Halfghanis are the most namak haram and ahsan farmosh nasals. i personnaly know many who recently migrated to Canada from Pakistan. From last 20 years they lived on the hand outs of Aga Khan foundation (mostly Pakistanis donated to this fund) now in Canada they still get welfare money from Canadian Govt even though they all can work.

What shamefull nation!!!!!!!