AgNoStiC MuSliM
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merging thread with existing one. Please look around the forum for threads on similar subjects before starting new ones.
Taliban says Polish hostage beheaded in Pakistan
- Thread starter Flintlock
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roadrunner
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That's true pirz.
Sadly there's a war on, there's all sorts of highly charged loyalties on in Pakistan currently.
Afghanistan's destabilization by the Soviets, the Arabs, the US for their Great Games has fed its way across the border. Wouldn't have happened if Afghanistan was stable.
Also sad is that many innocent Piotr's are killed by US drones, but don't receive this attention.
One shouldn't deflect from the obvious problem that these militants cause. However, to deny the war in Afghanistan had anything to do with this, I think would be putting on a pair of rose tinted specs.
RescueRanger
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This is truly sad news, it will of course come with implications for trade and operations in Pakistan, especially in the Oil and Gas & Energy Sector.
As i am sure anyone following this story will know that Mr Stanczak was an employee of polish surveying and charting company "Geofizyka Kraków", in days leading up to the kidnapping both the Ministry of Interior (Pakistan) and the companies security consultants had issued warnings about the volatility of the area of operation.
Geofizyka Kraków had a long term contract with OGDLC Pakistan: ::OGDCL - Offical Web Site dating back to 1998 primarily focusing on 3d seismic surveys.
Now really we have to look at this in the broader perspective, why was Mr. Stanczak operating in an area that was bordering areas highlighted as high risk by the Ministry of Interior.
Perhaps his better judgement he or his immediate superiors felt that since Attock is in the presumably neutral Punjab Province all would be safe Just days prior to the kidnapping of the engineer, the Ministry of Interior (Government of Pakistan) issued a notification banning all foreign experts assigned to nongovernmental and corporate entities from operating outside the catchment of FCT/Rawalpindi District with the exception of Abbottabad and Mansehra Districts. The Official Website of Ministry of Interior
Map of Attock Distrct approx distance from Islamabad 82Km.
Kidnap for Ransom is on the rise in Pakistan, with the Taliban adopting tactics commonly used by groups such as FARC in Colombia, what is interesting to observe is the fact that just three weeks prior to the Kidnapping of Mr.
Stanczak reports broke of the abduction of the two Chinese engineers working for Huawei Pakistan in Dir District. Reuters AlertNet - One Chinese kidnapped in Pakistan recovered
This was shortly followed by the kidnapping of a prominent factory manager with links to foreign companies: Tobacco factory manager Kidnapped in Attock | Pakistan News
The same month TTP warned hotels in Attock to shut down what it claimed to be "hen-den's" or prostitution. Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
According to the US State Department Overseas Security Advisory Service: The terrorist threat emanating from the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region, including Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier provinces and the Federally Administered Tribal Area, remained a top security concern for Asia and the rest of the world.
Groups in the area routinely conspired to kidnap and assassinate workers from nongovernmental organizations, including the assassination of a USAID contractor in November.
These extremists also have conducted suicide attacks on Western interests in the area, such as the September 2008 vehicle bomb at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad and the January 2008 assault on the Serena Hotel in Kabul.
https://www.osac.gov/Reports/report.cfm?contentID=95600
It is also very interesting to note that despite the heightened threat level the foreign expert was assigned only one FC guard, now unless the opposing force is actively employing surveillance or humint operations it would be difficult to determine the number of people composing the PDS or Protective Security Detail.
Sadly as is the case, the TTP and other groups have developed considerable strength in conducting covert surveillance operations and have a well established humint network based of sympathisers and collaborators.
Their recent alliance with a few of the corrupt and unscrupulous maliks of NWFP have given then carte blanche to jump in and out of tribal territories without repercussions and the inability of conducting aggressive counter surveillance operations has made the job easier for these groups.
I usually defend the government but in this case, i fear the both parties are to blame. The Government should strictly enforce the Ban on Foreign workers operating in areas such as Peshawar “considered sensitive” and that includes the UN and US/Diplomatic Posts. Similar to the strategy adopted by DIFD UK: Department for International Development, local staff should be hired to replace expats in high risk or non permissive environments.
At the same time the foreign companies operating in Pakistan have a considerable duty of care to their employees and this does not end at providing transport, RA/TA/DA but in fact should include Risk Assessments, Security and Safety Liaison, Trainings, Threat Reporting and Alerts etc...
A Norwegian company i know but shall not name is a perfect example of a foreign company operating well in non permissive environments by limiting its exposure to potential risks.
Whilst I am deeply sceptical of the fact that these highly coordinated attacks and sophisticated information collection techniques are being conducted and masterminded by baboons in a cave, we have to as a nation be vigilant and steadfast against a growing and increasingly resilient enemy.
All in all it boils down to the meat and potatoes of security; liaison between stake holders, information sharing, action by the government, acceptance by foreign entities of duty of care to employees and discharging that duty, and just like the Chinese in Baluchistan providing all foreign workers operating in non permissive environments covert/overt PSD’s.
As i am sure anyone following this story will know that Mr Stanczak was an employee of polish surveying and charting company "Geofizyka Kraków", in days leading up to the kidnapping both the Ministry of Interior (Pakistan) and the companies security consultants had issued warnings about the volatility of the area of operation.
Geofizyka Kraków had a long term contract with OGDLC Pakistan: ::OGDCL - Offical Web Site dating back to 1998 primarily focusing on 3d seismic surveys.
Now really we have to look at this in the broader perspective, why was Mr. Stanczak operating in an area that was bordering areas highlighted as high risk by the Ministry of Interior.
Perhaps his better judgement he or his immediate superiors felt that since Attock is in the presumably neutral Punjab Province all would be safe Just days prior to the kidnapping of the engineer, the Ministry of Interior (Government of Pakistan) issued a notification banning all foreign experts assigned to nongovernmental and corporate entities from operating outside the catchment of FCT/Rawalpindi District with the exception of Abbottabad and Mansehra Districts. The Official Website of Ministry of Interior
Map of Attock Distrct approx distance from Islamabad 82Km.
Kidnap for Ransom is on the rise in Pakistan, with the Taliban adopting tactics commonly used by groups such as FARC in Colombia, what is interesting to observe is the fact that just three weeks prior to the Kidnapping of Mr.
Stanczak reports broke of the abduction of the two Chinese engineers working for Huawei Pakistan in Dir District. Reuters AlertNet - One Chinese kidnapped in Pakistan recovered
This was shortly followed by the kidnapping of a prominent factory manager with links to foreign companies: Tobacco factory manager Kidnapped in Attock | Pakistan News
The same month TTP warned hotels in Attock to shut down what it claimed to be "hen-den's" or prostitution. Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
According to the US State Department Overseas Security Advisory Service: The terrorist threat emanating from the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region, including Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier provinces and the Federally Administered Tribal Area, remained a top security concern for Asia and the rest of the world.
Groups in the area routinely conspired to kidnap and assassinate workers from nongovernmental organizations, including the assassination of a USAID contractor in November.
These extremists also have conducted suicide attacks on Western interests in the area, such as the September 2008 vehicle bomb at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad and the January 2008 assault on the Serena Hotel in Kabul.
https://www.osac.gov/Reports/report.cfm?contentID=95600
It is also very interesting to note that despite the heightened threat level the foreign expert was assigned only one FC guard, now unless the opposing force is actively employing surveillance or humint operations it would be difficult to determine the number of people composing the PDS or Protective Security Detail.
Sadly as is the case, the TTP and other groups have developed considerable strength in conducting covert surveillance operations and have a well established humint network based of sympathisers and collaborators.
Their recent alliance with a few of the corrupt and unscrupulous maliks of NWFP have given then carte blanche to jump in and out of tribal territories without repercussions and the inability of conducting aggressive counter surveillance operations has made the job easier for these groups.
I usually defend the government but in this case, i fear the both parties are to blame. The Government should strictly enforce the Ban on Foreign workers operating in areas such as Peshawar “considered sensitive” and that includes the UN and US/Diplomatic Posts. Similar to the strategy adopted by DIFD UK: Department for International Development, local staff should be hired to replace expats in high risk or non permissive environments.
At the same time the foreign companies operating in Pakistan have a considerable duty of care to their employees and this does not end at providing transport, RA/TA/DA but in fact should include Risk Assessments, Security and Safety Liaison, Trainings, Threat Reporting and Alerts etc...
A Norwegian company i know but shall not name is a perfect example of a foreign company operating well in non permissive environments by limiting its exposure to potential risks.
Whilst I am deeply sceptical of the fact that these highly coordinated attacks and sophisticated information collection techniques are being conducted and masterminded by baboons in a cave, we have to as a nation be vigilant and steadfast against a growing and increasingly resilient enemy.
All in all it boils down to the meat and potatoes of security; liaison between stake holders, information sharing, action by the government, acceptance by foreign entities of duty of care to employees and discharging that duty, and just like the Chinese in Baluchistan providing all foreign workers operating in non permissive environments covert/overt PSD’s.
RescueRanger
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roadrunner
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One thing I don't get about these beheadings is the attention they get.
It's almost as if it's the perfect propaganda for the time.
Here's another Pole this time getting stabbed (alright not quite to death, but perhaps the intention was there).
Polish man hospitalised after stabbing - Scotsman.com News
it's very difficult to provide adequate security for everyone, and if it's needed, the company should be providing it.
Perhaps I'm missing something here, regarding the media/political attention on foreign worker killings in Pak. Is it the brutality? If so, is a stabbing less brutal or the method a means of mitigation?
It's almost as if it's the perfect propaganda for the time.
Here's another Pole this time getting stabbed (alright not quite to death, but perhaps the intention was there).
Polish man hospitalised after stabbing - Scotsman.com News
it's very difficult to provide adequate security for everyone, and if it's needed, the company should be providing it.
Perhaps I'm missing something here, regarding the media/political attention on foreign worker killings in Pak. Is it the brutality? If so, is a stabbing less brutal or the method a means of mitigation?
Last edited:
Flintlock
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Poland cancels visit of Pak senators
* Offers $290,000 bounty for killers of Polish hostage
WARSAW/ISLAMABAD: Polands Senate on Tuesday called off a visit by Pakistani senators after their countrys negotiators failed to save Polish hostage Piotr Stanczak from execution by his Taliban captors.
The delegation had been due to visit Warsaw from February 12 to 14, according to a statement by the Polish Senate, AFP reported.
Polish officials charged that elements within the Pakistani government shared blame for the killing, AP reported.
Pakistans top diplomat in Poland rejected the accusation that members of the Islamabad government were sympathetic to extremists. Meanwhile, the government on Tuesday stopped a four-member Senate delegation from proceeding to Poland after the Polish Senate called off their visit. Senate Secretary Raja Amin said the visit was postponed on Monday evening.
Bounty: Also on Tuesday, the Polish government offered $290,000 reward for information leading to the capture of Taliban who had beheaded Stanczak. agencies/zulfiqar ghuman
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
* Offers $290,000 bounty for killers of Polish hostage
WARSAW/ISLAMABAD: Polands Senate on Tuesday called off a visit by Pakistani senators after their countrys negotiators failed to save Polish hostage Piotr Stanczak from execution by his Taliban captors.
The delegation had been due to visit Warsaw from February 12 to 14, according to a statement by the Polish Senate, AFP reported.
Polish officials charged that elements within the Pakistani government shared blame for the killing, AP reported.
Pakistans top diplomat in Poland rejected the accusation that members of the Islamabad government were sympathetic to extremists. Meanwhile, the government on Tuesday stopped a four-member Senate delegation from proceeding to Poland after the Polish Senate called off their visit. Senate Secretary Raja Amin said the visit was postponed on Monday evening.
Bounty: Also on Tuesday, the Polish government offered $290,000 reward for information leading to the capture of Taliban who had beheaded Stanczak. agencies/zulfiqar ghuman
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Flintlock
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Of course - beheadings on videotape by Pan-Islamists are a common thing - just like stabbings! They could happen anywhere!
Its all giant conspiracy to defame Pakistan.
"Stop Clutching Kalavas"
asaad-ul-islam
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yeah, and burning fetuses, women, and children happens everywhere! the Polish govt. also sponsors mass genocide against minorities, along with France, UK, and other countries!Of course - beheadings on videotape by Pan-Islamists are a common thing - just like stabbings! They could happen anywhere!
Its all giant conspiracy to defame Pakistan.
"Stop Clutching Kalavas"
Energon
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The whole point of kidnapping someone of significance (in this case a white skinned foreigner), beheading him, making a video tape of it and then sending it to government officials, media outlets etc. is to garner as much attention as possible.
It is the kidnapper's propaganda that is being conveyed here, not anyone else's.
TruthSeeker
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Rift in Pakistan govt sealed Poles fate
DAWN, February 11, 2009
WARSAW, Feb 10: Internal divisions within Pakistans government apparatus hampered efforts to save the life of a Polish hostage beheaded by Taliban militants, Polands foreign minister said on Tuesday.
That the (Islamabad) government cannot count on the loyalty of all of its officers and officials is a sad reality, Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told a news conference after a weekly cabinet meeting dominated by the killing of Piotr Stanczak.This was an obstacle in our cooperation, but nevertheless we had cooperation (from the Pakistani side), said Mr Sikorski, who as a journalist in the 1980s spent time in the region with Afghan guerrillas battling Soviet troops.
The media have quoted Justice Minister Andrzej Czuma as saying after the beheading that Polish intelligence knew the identity of Mr Stanczaks kidnappers and their friends in the Pakistani government. Prime Minister Donald Tusk on Tuesday termed Mr Czumas comments very unfortunate and said the minister in his job barely three weeks would not be authorised to comment on this case in future.
Mr Tusk said he did not know whether Pakistan had done all it could to help free Mr Stanczak, adding: All I can say is that they were very well aware how important this issue was for us.
Mr Sikorski dismissed suggestions that Warsaw was inactive in trying to secure Mr Stanczaks release and said the militants had not been interested in ransom money.
We had to deal with people who are evil in a pure form, whose perverted sense of honour is based on cruelty, he said.
DAWN, February 11, 2009
WARSAW, Feb 10: Internal divisions within Pakistans government apparatus hampered efforts to save the life of a Polish hostage beheaded by Taliban militants, Polands foreign minister said on Tuesday.
That the (Islamabad) government cannot count on the loyalty of all of its officers and officials is a sad reality, Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told a news conference after a weekly cabinet meeting dominated by the killing of Piotr Stanczak.This was an obstacle in our cooperation, but nevertheless we had cooperation (from the Pakistani side), said Mr Sikorski, who as a journalist in the 1980s spent time in the region with Afghan guerrillas battling Soviet troops.
The media have quoted Justice Minister Andrzej Czuma as saying after the beheading that Polish intelligence knew the identity of Mr Stanczaks kidnappers and their friends in the Pakistani government. Prime Minister Donald Tusk on Tuesday termed Mr Czumas comments very unfortunate and said the minister in his job barely three weeks would not be authorised to comment on this case in future.
Mr Tusk said he did not know whether Pakistan had done all it could to help free Mr Stanczak, adding: All I can say is that they were very well aware how important this issue was for us.
Mr Sikorski dismissed suggestions that Warsaw was inactive in trying to secure Mr Stanczaks release and said the militants had not been interested in ransom money.
We had to deal with people who are evil in a pure form, whose perverted sense of honour is based on cruelty, he said.
Of course - beheadings on videotape by Pan-Islamists are a common thing - just like stabbings! They could happen anywhere!
Its all giant conspiracy to defame Pakistan.
"Stop Clutching Kalavas"
So what exactly is your understanding of "Pan-Islamists" that you constantly use in your posts? Do you really even understand this before you lump all of them under the same bin as the ***** Pashtun Taliban in the tribal areas of Pakistan?
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