Taliban not the Enemy: Biden - Taliban Confirm Office in Qatar

[Abu Zolfiqar]

That is absurd. If you believe that the Taliban should have expel al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan, then you should have reasoned out that such action could not have come unless the US have been negotiating with the Taliban for years, more like a decade, to try to get that action done. So there is no 'knee-jerk' reaction about it.

Mullah Omar was keen on seeing to it that charges be brought in writing against OBL and that he be tried in an Islamic court to determine his guilt. The Americans rubbished and ridiculed this demand.


to think that EVERYTHING was honky-dorie between Mullah Omar and the Arab figters is a huge error, factually incorrect. In fact there were many times where he publicly scolded them; he felt that they were becoming too powerful for their boots and too influential. It was never Mullah Omar's intention for Afghanistan to be used as a proxy battlefield. Yes, he (as well as Hekmatyar, Massoud and all the other top figureheads of the anti soviet mujahideen) did take aid and weapons from USA/UK/Saudi/Pakistan/Iran etc. meaning that they did allow Afghanistan to become a proxy battlefield (for a noble and just cause).

However, Mullah Omar did feel that his very power was being compromised by these ragtag Arab fighters. In those days, Osama wasn't bouncing checks just yet --he was still their prized cash cow. Their ATM dispensary. Osama had global ambitions. Mullah Omar and the taleban had a very Afghan-centric agenda. They are fiercely patriotic people, though their past human rights record (especially with regard to women) were about as abysmal as the northern alliance --which NATO would later support and prop up at the expense of Afghanistan's Pakhtun population.


the invasion of Afghanistan was a knee-jerk reaction. Alternate means could have been employed to isolate the taleban from al qaeda and al qaeda-sympathetic elements in Afghanistan. 15 of the 19 terrorist hijackers, incidentally, were Saudi Arabian nationals. None of the hijackers were Afghans, none of the terrorists affiliated with the terrorist plot were Aghan nationals.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

So if an American soldier kneel upon a Quran and pray to Jesus, would you agree to the same silly association?

Your comparing a flag to a sacred book? forget it gi... heck your retarded SOB priest burnt one too.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So if an American soldier kneel upon a Quran and pray to Jesus, would you agree to the same silly association?

Lawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwd be praised!!!!!!!

 

[gambit]

Your comparing a flag to a sacred book? forget it gi... heck your retarded SOB priest burnt one too.

Yes. No different than the stupid association to which it was a response.

 

[lem34]

the taleban insurgency hasn't really fizzled out; their mentality is that ''you have the watch, we have the time''

they have been able to engage in pitched battles even in Kabul fortress, and have managed to adopt to NATO tactics on the ground. . .many of their attacks against ISAF have become more audacious and bold

with that in mind, why would they want to admit or acknowledge any ''peace talks'' with NATO when they feel that they have some kind of upper hand here? This is an insurgency, not a conventional war. These guys can fight for several days and then blend in with the civilian population quite easily.

they continually state that there will be no negotiations or concessions as long as there are foreign boots on Afghan soil...it could be a bluff though, as I am fairly confident that such talks (including indirect and direct ones with medium and high level taleb officials in 3rd-party countries) have been going on for some time now.


if Biden is suddenly confident, he should further clarify his and his governments position on this matter --in the interests of no further confusions of their audience and the international audience.

Abu I am always impressed with your voice of reason and knowledge on afghai affairs

 

[lem34]

Yes. No different than the stupid association to which it was a response.

Gambet most of the time you are off topic on numerous threads and seem to have a chip on your shoulder. I have yet see you come out with anything useful. On the other hand Chogy I have all the time in the world for and as a result have learned from him have tempered my view on americans so much that when I talk negativly about americans I make sure I say american govt and not american people. I lightheartedly put that post up to liven and add satire the guy was not disrespecting the american flag he was praying to god on it. You on the other hand took it to religion and tried to make capital and be offensive, Back to topic american govt is changing tune because they are unable to defeat the taleban

 

[gambit]

Mullah Omar was keen on seeing to it that charges be brought in writing against OBL and that he be tried in an Islamic court to determine his guilt. The Americans rubbished and ridiculed this demand.

We have every right to our demands just as Mullah Omar believe to his.

to think that EVERYTHING was honky-dorie between Mullah Omar and the Arab figters is a huge error, factually incorrect. In fact there were many times where he publicly scolded them; he felt that they were becoming too powerful for their boots and too influential.

We do not care. And after 9/11 it would be absurd for any country to think that we should care about this internal issue.

It was never Mullah Omar's intention for Afghanistan to be used as a proxy battlefield. Yes, he (as well as Hekmatyar, Massoud and all the other top figureheads of the anti soviet mujahideen) did take aid and weapons from USA/UK/Saudi/Pakistan/Iran etc. meaning that they did allow Afghanistan to become a proxy battlefield (for a noble and just cause).

We do not care. And after 9/11 it would be absurd for any country to think that we should care about this internal issue.

the invasion of Afghanistan was a knee-jerk reaction. Alternate means could have been employed to isolate the taleban from al qaeda and al qaeda-sympathetic elements in Afghanistan. 15 of the 19 terrorist hijackers, incidentally, were Saudi Arabian nationals. None of the hijackers were Afghans, none of the terrorists affiliated with the terrorist plot were Aghan nationals.

This is a red herring. The beliefs of al-Qaeda is intended to be transnationalist and the moment a person swore fealty to al-Qaeda, his citizenship is irrelevant. Afghanistan was a major al-Qaeda base and safe haven. Not Germany where the actual operations were planned. Not Saudi Arabia where Osama bin Laden was disowned. Not the US where unwittingly many US citizens assisted the 9/11 hijackers. It was Afghanistan and the negotiations lasted over a decade, including the first attempt at the WTC towers.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yes. No different than the stupid association to which it was a response.

Now taliban your best buds?





Oh.




DO MORE!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Gambet most of the time you are off topic on numerous threads and seem to have a chip on your shoulder. I have yet see you come out with anything useful. On the other hand Chogy I have all the time in the world for and as a result have learned from him have tempered my view on americans so much that when I talk negativly about americans I make sure I say american govt and not american people. I lightheartedly put that post up to liven and add satire the guy was not disrespecting the american flag he was praying to god on it. You on the other hand took it to religion and tried to make capital and be offensive, Back to topic american govt is changing tune because they are unable to defeat the taleban

Americans by and large are good people. They make good friends, and there is a lot we can learn from them --despite whatever grievences our GOVERNMENTS have and despite whatever grievences we have with their foreign policy.


vice versa applies. . .


I for one am not enjoying the deterioration we have seen between both countries as far as relationship and cooperation are concerned. I genuinely hope to see the ''red lines'' be better labelled so that they are not crossed; the whole relationship needs to be re-defined and re-implemeneted in a way so that not just governments or military see eye to eye --- but also that the people on the ground (the people who really matter) see eye to eye as well


the Americans accuse us of occasional duplicity and we accuse the Americans of being unreliable partners...both accuse eachother of time to time compromising on eachother's interests. this must end on BOTH sides

 

[lem34]

^^^^^ sadly american govt and pakistani peoples (and PA) interests diverge so lets face it and be circumspect with our dealings. We are not dealing with a freind. They were never our freinds down to AIPAC.

 

[gambit]

the Americans accuse us of occasional duplicity and we accuse the Americans of being unreliable partners...both accuse eachother of time to time compromising on eachother's interests. this must end on BOTH sides

All Pakistan have to do is take control of her territory. For now, despite what Biden said, the Taliban is our enemy. As long as there are elements inside and outside the Pakistani government that sympathizes and aid both groups inside Pakistani territory, this kind of back-and-forth accusations will persists.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

We have every right to our demands just as Mullah Omar believe to his.

the bombs were already raining down every time an attack on US interests took place. . .I can understand WHY, but in hindsight don't you think this was counter-productive and only emboldened the terrorist organization? Did this not embolden the taleban to become increasingly defiant?

please remember that the US was very well aware of who taleban were when they invited taleban delegation to Houston, Texas for talks regarding the TAPI pipeline?

We do not care. And after 9/11 it would be absurd for any country to think that we should care about this internal issue.

what was that?

We do not care. And after 9/11 it would be absurd for any country to think that we should care about this internal issue.

ahh, i hear you now.

if it was an ''internal issue'' then why did you get emboiled into it? My common sense tells me that you would say ''ít became our issue once we were attacked'' ......I can sympathize and agree with that argument, given that 3,000 innocent Americans were killed in terrorist attacks on 11th September of 2001 --one of the most gruesome terrorist attacks against a superpower that the world has ever seen.

with that said however, how can you say ''we don't care''.......are you implying that you don't care who you drop bombs on? Are you implying that over a decade into America's longest war, you don't know who you are fighting, who are the one's that should have been targetted?

please clarify your position....i dont like ''i dont know'' or ''we dont care'' type answers, those are useless

The beliefs of al-Qaeda is intended to be transnationalist and the moment a person swore fealty to al-Qaeda, his citizenship is irrelevant.

as a country whose citizens and private/public property have been destroyed in attacks carried out by this leaderless mysterious organization, I do hereby endorse and agree with above statement

in their prenatal stages, it was a centralized organization whose primary focus (in a post cold war, post Sayyed-Qutb era) was the overthrow of the Saudi monarchy and the removal of American military presence from the persian gulf. It is indeed ironic that the same people you funded and armed would later turn against the west. It's important to also note that al qaeda today has the blood of scores of Muslims on its hand....al qaeda is increasingly irrelevant, though they still are a threat admittedly.

Afghanistan was a major al-Qaeda base and safe haven

and by blindly attacking Afghanistan, some of those fighters dispersed all over. . . in fact, the very invasion itself was a Godsend for them. Their mantra about ''evil west, enemies of Muslims etc'' became easier to sell, especially to segments of the population where combined male/female literacy was no more than 10-11%

Not Germany where the actual operations were planned. Not Saudi Arabia where Osama bin Laden was disowned. Not the US where unwittingly many US citizens assisted the 9/11 hijackers. It was Afghanistan and the negotiations lasted over a decade, including the first attempt at the WTC towers.

are you ready to present me with proof that 'AfPak' (as you call the region) ''owned'' such attacks?

you keep talking about ''decade-long negotiations''.....for God's sakes, the taleban didn't even come officially to power until 1996

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

All Pakistan have to do is take control of her territory. For now, despite what Biden said, the Taliban is our enemy. As long as there are elements inside and outside the Pakistani government that sympathizes and aid both groups inside Pakistani territory, this kind of back-and-forth accusations will persists.

which leads us to another important point:

stop blaming us for all your woes in Afghanistan. . . even if 80% of the national assembly (forget non-state elements) supported taleban --morally and materially -- does this imply that Pakistan (a country so mismanaged by the current government that a good portion of budget is going towards debt-servicing) has the magical ability to impose/install hundreds of thousands of armed men and millions of their affiliates/sympathizers calling themselves Afghan resistance?

stop giving us so much credit

NATO-administered Afghanistan should take control of its own territory, because it is increasingly being used in hostile manner against Pakistan. The patience of Pakistan's civilians and military leaders is growing increasingly thin. The difference here is that NATO is the outsider entity, not the taleban and most certainly not Pakistan.


if some rogue US Customs agents or other figureheads are seen greasing and dealing with members of the much-feared Zeta cartel in Tijuana Mexico, does it mean that it is US Policy to have contacts and dealings with drug cartels? Should I blame a sizeable section of American society for demanding narcotics and being instrumental by providing patronage to this evil business (one that has claimed more lives and caused more destruction than what a few Al Qaeda lizard-eaters could ever dream of)

 

[FireFighter]

We have every right to our demands just as Mullah Omar believe to his.


We do not care. And after 9/11 it would be absurd for any country to think that we should care about this internal issue.


We do not care. And after 9/11 it would be absurd for any country to think that we should care about this internal issue.

Maybe spending another decade in AFG contemplating befriending taliban or not would help really resolve the issue.

This is a red herring. The beliefs of al-Qaeda is intended to be transnationalist and the moment a person swore fealty to al-Qaeda, his citizenship is irrelevant. Afghanistan was a major al-Qaeda base and safe haven. Not Germany where the actual operations were planned. Not Saudi Arabia where Osama bin Laden was disowned. Not the US where unwittingly many US citizens assisted the 9/11 hijackers. It was Afghanistan and the negotiations lasted over a decade, including the first attempt at the WTC towers.

You do have a point there...but if the US got Saudi's to disown AlQaeda and it's ideology, it wasn't done over night, in fact it took them a few years to eradicate the menance and sympathizers. Now that AlQaida has spread out to Africa and whatnot and OBL gone, are you still of the view that Afghan war earned US more friends than enemies?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That is absurd. If you believe that the Taliban should have expel al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan, then you should have reasoned out that such action could not have come unless the US have been negotiating with the Taliban for years, more like a decade, to try to get that action done. So there is no 'knee-jerk' reaction about it.

There was less than a month between the 9/11 attacks and the start of the Afghan war - no sane individual can characterize the US decision to go to war in that time-frame as anything but 'knee jerk, hasty, poorly thought out ..'.

There was no time or thought whatsoever given to exploring diplomatic engagement (with the threat of war) and exploring the Taliban offer for an OBL trial in a third country or/and by an impartial judicial panel.

The US has no justification for its decision to go to war given the absence of any sincere attempt to resolve the situation diplomatically - the decision to go to war shows the US military, political and media leadership for what they are and have been for decades - a bunch of arrogant, war-mongering, trigger-happy red-necks (and I use the slur as being applicable to all racial/ethnic groups in the US leadership, since I use it as being descriptive of a particular mindset in the US leadership).

---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

So if an American soldier kneel upon a Quran and pray to Jesus, would you agree to the same silly association?

Where do you see a bible being knelt upon?