Taliban Military Chief Mullah Baradar captured by Pakistan

[S-2]

"No, that indicates that the PA may have known where Badruddin Haqqani was - I see no mention of the presence of Sirajuddin or Jalaludin Haqqani in that article."

"You can disagree as much as you want, but without evidence you continue to make an unsubstantiated claim, much as the US government and military do."

I wish to disagree a whole lot. Short of Rehman Malik being on the mark Karachi is one hell of a long way from an Afghan border guard. Re-read the NEWSWEEK backgrounder if you're not so busy.

Truth is, though, I'm a tad tired of dancing with you as, no doubt, you probably are with me. We never did dance well together.

Thanks.

 

[fatman17]

'Tis a rich day for "thank-yous"!

Everybody's got something fun to say and S-2 is buying!

Thanks.

hey the more the merrier

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I wish to disagree a whole lot. Short of Rehman Malik being on the mark Karachi is one hell of a long way from an Afghan border guard. Re-read the NEWSWEEK backgrounder if you're not so busy.

You mean to suggest that no one crossing the Afghan-Pakistan border in Pakistan can make it to Karachi?

Sorry, but the points made before, none of which you have really addressed, remain valid. You can continue to disagree without really having any reason to, the image fits you well in that case.

And again, Karachi is not 'Quetta', and hence not a 'Quetta Shura'. Even monkey's should be able to figure that out.

Truth is, though, I'm a tad tired of dancing with you as, no doubt, you probably are with me. We never did dance well together.

Unfortunately for you, you can't ignore me, and so long as you and the US administration and military continue to make unsubstantiated claims, you'll keep getting called out on it.

Thanks for the dance.

 

[Awesome]

I see nothing in these responses to contradict my assertion that what happened was a failure of Pakistani governance. All the ruling class has to offer is that they are better than the Taliban. That's a pretty low bar. No redress of grievances, no reduction in corruption, no improvement in justice from before the Taliban took over. Do you think the people of Swat will forget that forever?

Yet another indication of Malik's integrity, I suppose. Very like Saddam's last information minister.

You presuppose that the Swat takeover was local. Swat is a tourist destination, the locals are non-violent. They were taken over by the gun. If you go to Swat even today you'll find businessmen, hotel and restaurant workers. They didn't give up their land it was taken from them.

Compared to the rest of the Pakistan there wasn't much corruption, grievances and crime. For Fazlullah and gang it was location, location, location and the timing of Musharraf losing popularity suited them as he was unable to mount any major operation against them.

 

[Solomon2]

My comments were very specific to the actual enactment of the Swat peace deal, in terms of being an action that was in consonance with the overwhelming public and political opinion at the time.

Exactly. What better indication of governance failure could there be? Had the government promised to clean things up and acted to improve matters, I see no reason why the public wouldn't have thought differently.

Instead, the GoP let the public taste Taliban rule. Naturally, people didn't like it and shifted their faith back to the GoP. The cost in terms of human suffering was great - a quarter-million displaced, hundreds of Pakistani soldiers killed - but who in the ruling class cares about that?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You presuppose that the Swat takeover was local. Swat is a tourist destination, the locals are non-violent. They were taken over by the gun. If you go to Swat even today you'll find businessmen, hotel and restaurant workers. They didn't give up their land it was taken from them.

Compared to the rest of the Pakistan there wasn't much corruption, grievances and crime. For Fazlullah and gang it was location, location, location and the timing of Musharraf losing popularity suited them as he was unable to mount any major operation against them.

I have to agree - the Swat Taliban takeover was largely due to the apathy of the MMA government in the NWFP, and the vociferous opposition to the military after the Lal Masjif Operation that was milked for propaganda purposes by both extremists and Musharraf opponents alike.

The people did not exactly welcome the Swat-TTP in, it was a degrading process of a loss of government writ and an expansion in Taliban power.

 

[fatman17]

hundreds of Pakistani soldiers killed

not in the swat ops!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Exactly. What better indication of governance failure could there be? Had the government promised to clean things up and acted to improve matters, I see no reason why the public wouldn't have thought differently.

Instead, the GoP let the public taste Taliban rule. Naturally, people didn't like it and shifted their faith back to the GoP. The cost in terms of human suffering was great - a quarter-million displaced, hundreds of Pakistani soldiers killed - but who in the ruling class cares about that?

I personally think that this 'taste of Taliban rule' happened so that more Public Opinion can be gained in favour of GoP, you see there were people still at that time who thought that Taliban are good, but as as soon as they started expanding to Buner there was a major shift, GoP & PA gained all the reasons to go for a 'Kill' no doubt suffering is beard by the people of Swat & now people are back in their homes, so need to wake up the dead horse, Now there is almost 'Zero' Taliban activity in Swat

Thanks

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Exactly. What better indication of governance failure could there be? Had the government promised to clean things up and acted to improve matters, I see no reason why the public wouldn't have thought differently.

Instead, the GoP let the public taste Taliban rule. Naturally, people didn't like it and shifted their faith back to the GoP. The cost in terms of human suffering was great - a quarter-million displaced, hundreds of Pakistani soldiers killed - but who in the ruling class cares about that?

That is an inaccurate assessment of public sentiment - the lack of public support for military operations was not because the Public wished to see the Taliban insurgency take over Pakistan and provide a 'different system', but because they did not believe that the Taliban were expansionist and were fighting because of the US occupation of Afghanistan and Pakistan's support for it.

What the collapse of the Swat peace deal did was illustrate that the Taliban were not just a resistance group ala the Mujahideen from the Soviet invasion, but an extremists expansionist force.

It was in fact the realization that, if not stopped, the Taliban would impose their government everywhere that resulted in the shift of opinion. The people of Swat probably experienced this shift long before the rest of Pakistan, since they experienced Taliban rule first hand. It took a while longer for reality to hit the majority of Pakistanis.

 

[fawwaxs]

Mullah Baradar arrest reports propaganda: Rehman Malik

ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Tuesday branded as “propaganda” reports that the top Taliban military commander had been arrested in a joint Pakistani-US spy operation.

Speaking to reporters outside parliament in Islamabad, the cabinet minister stopped short of either confirming or denying the media reports.

The New York Times and other US media cited US government officials as saying that US and Pakistani intelligence services arrested Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in Karachi “several days ago”.

“We are verifying all those we have arrested. If there is any big target, I will show the nation,” Malik said.

“If the New York Times gives information, it is not a divine truth, it can be wrong. We have joint intelligence sharing and no joint investigation, nor joint raids,” Malik added.

“We are a sovereign state and hence will not allow anybody to come and do any operation. And we will not allow that. So this (report) is propaganda,” he added.

Pakistan's government is a close US ally in the war on Al-Qaeda and the eight-year conflict against the Taliban in neighbouring Afghanistan, but the relationship is controversial in an increasingly anti-American country.

DAWN.COM | World | Mullah Baradar arrest reports propaganda: Rehman Malik

 

[S-2]

"Sorry, but the points made before, none of which you have really addressed, remain valid."

Completely disagree, of course. It's clear that Haqqani owns Miram Shah. Negotiations means talking with the enemy to reach an accomodation. That's not accomodating those suffering from their presence of course. Eight plus years applies perfectly beginning with the negotiations surrounding the Shakai agreement in April 2004 that I've posted here earlier.

It's equally clear that whether taliban cross the border south to Karachi for medical aid or R & R we're really not discussing them but in fact Baradar and he's an altogether different animal. NEWSWEEK makes plain that he doesn't do his work in Afghanistan. His capture in Karachi fits his M.O. His presence there wasn't some one-off exercise.

"Ghani Baradur was not in Quetta now was he ..."

Doesn't sleep in the same bed twice. Operates between the border and Karachi. Quetta is just a name to help those needing a physical fixation to visualize the presence.

"You can continue to disagree without really having any reason to, the image fits you well in that case."

I've plenty of "reason". Foremost is Baradar's arrest. Snide, however, can cut both ways and you've an image as well. Did Rehman Malik give you a ring-up just after speaking to the press?

"Unfortunately for you, you can't ignore me, and so long as you and the US administration and military continue to make unsubstantiated claims, you'll keep getting called out on it."

Ignoring you isn't a concern and never has been. Unless Malik's report proves true, it's all the validation anybody reasonable will need. Figure out if that shoe fits, will you?

Thanks.

 

[Solomon2]

AM, do think about what you responded to and what you didn't respond to. Once the TTP and Taliban are defeated, these problems will remain and resurface. How will you respond, by addressing the needs of the people, or diverting them by seeking another armed conflict, foreign or domestic?

 

[fatman17]

Karachi

we also know where the JTF is 'billeted'

 

[star123]

I think OBL is some where in pakistan. Will be found one fine day like todays operation.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think OBL is some where in pakistan. Will be found one fine day like todays operation.

Elvis was a alien and shakespear was indian.