Taliban Kill 22 peace committee members

[zpak]

Can anybody really expect Geo to give proper coverage to this sad event at all? They're in the pockets of the corrupt politicians who are hell bent on holding the entire country hostage over the judges drama.

What is still dissappointing though is that there are some still out there who dont think this is our war. There are 22 dead bodies out there that say something else.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Let me clarify the groups for everyone. There is the taliban in afghanistan led by Mullah Omar. and then there is the tehrik-i-taliban pakistan, led by Baitullah Mehsud who is also in alliance with radio mullah, Fazlullah.

there was a faction in waziristan, but I think the army has a peace deal with them which has been in effect for a long time. anyways, baitullah mehsud, head of the TTP, launched a campaign of suicide attacks on PA. Mullah Omar of the taliban in afghanistan booted him out of the taliban and cut all ties with him. here's a nice article by our very own, jana Rift in Taliban ranks: Rumours of Mullah Omar sacking Mehsud

he specifically ordered baitullah to lay down arms against pakistan, stating that pakistan wasn't the enemy. however, there are strong takfirist elements within TTP, not to mention egyptians, uzbeks, etc.

I was an advocate for wiping out TTP a long time ago. FM Radio mullah Fazlullah would be a piece of cake, keeping in mind Swat doesn't give him much support (they didn't have much to begin with, it's a tourist attraction).

as for Mehsud, there's just one tiny problem. to get rid of him, you have to possible fight the whole mehsud tribe. keep in mind guys, the mehsud and waziri tribes are notorious in pakistan. before this crap even started, they were admired as the most ferocious tribes who never gave in to the British. we can't possibly go against mehsud even if we know we can take him out.

that's why the army is trying to strike a deal. we probably know he's going to violate it, which is why we'll do stuff like operation zalzala. drop pamplets for people to leave the village and then destroy the empty villages. this way, we will try to isolate him, which we've succeeded at for the most part by getting the other tribes to disown him. once he becomes the source of all problems, we only have to wait for his own tribe to kill him.

 

[EagleEyes]

An operation is on its way. It could begin anytime soon in that area. A high delegation meeting was held and the PM was also there.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

An operation is on its way. It could begin anytime soon in that area. A high delegation meeting was held and the PM was also there.

About time.

I think Pakistanis have been given enough time to see that "peace deals" do not work in isolation of military presence. The support for the Taliban amongst Pakistanis has in fact doubled since we stopped the military campaign, because their actions are not affecting the vast majority of Pakistanis directly (suicide bombings), even though the Taliban have continued their campaign of intimidation, coercion and violence in FATA, and some cases spread into the settled areas of the NWFP.

The polling trends indicate to me that unless most Pakistanis have a bomb go off in their backyards, they are not going to get off this bloody "Muslim brothers" BS.

Lets just hope the mayor of Kabul and his druggie minions keep their traps shut and don't distract from building up resolve against the Taliban.

 

[EagleEyes]

If you read this Pakistan: Taliban kill 22 pro-Karzai rivals | World news | guardian.co.uk

They have already disappeared as they knew it was coming, but those who are in current command might just be finished off.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ What on earth is that article going on about Webby?

It describes the elders alternatively as "pro-Karzai" and "pro-government" - GoP in this case I imagine.

Everything I have read indicates these were part of a GoP sponsored peace committee. Looks like the Western Media is trying to tie in violence in Afghanistan to everything in Pakistan now.

Next thing you know, someone killed in Punjab or Sindh will be "pro- Karzai" as well.

 

[araz]

Iam surprised athow casually the Government is taking all of this. On the one hand we have doom and gloom about Pro Baitullah fighters arming and preparing to take over Peshawar and on the Government side they are still holding meetings and talking about acccords and making COAS incharge of Army operations.
Ther are 3 permutations to this.
A) the locals are in Shinanigans with the Government and this is all a ploy to pressure uncle Sam into releasing the strings to the purse a bit more. If this is a case then it can have serious consequences as The Americans are likely to see the situation as getting out of hand and that may invite more localized bombings.
B) The Government is actually clueless and is in a panic. This would also be bad in general for the country as it would embolden the Taliban and invite more trouble.
C) The Army is advising the Government to play the game to bring the terrorists out of their hideouts into the open for full action and a good clearout. The COAS being made incharge may be a step in that direction. Ther is just one problem with that and that is the invitation to the army to interfere with the country's fate and may lead to another take over by the military.
Should we have a debate on these points please. Iwould love to know what your assessment of the ground situation is?
WaSalam
Araz

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ I tend to think its more of point B Araz.

If you look at the direction Kiyani has tried to steer the Army in (publicly), it is one of detachment from everything non-military, and he has quite clearly indicated that the Army will follow whatever policy the GoP decides.

If you were to take these attempts as sincere, and assume that this extended to FATA as well, then it becomes easier to understand why the Army withdrew from FATA, since the lot we elected, and Pakistanis in general, have been screaming about "operations against fellow Muslim brothers" and the need to try "dialog".

Now that the "dialog" has failed, after the false and temporaray "success" (reduction in suicide bombings and attacks on SF's), the civilian setup is finding it hard to adjust to the reality that the Taliban have done exactly what everyone was warning them would happen - they have regrouped and expanded.

The handing over of power to Kiyani may be step towards reality, that without military force and enforcement the Taliban will never stop their activities. However it is equally true that just military force alone will not solve the issue.

Setting up Tribal militias that will work in conjunction with the Military to drive away and find out Taliban fighters should be the way to go. The locals have to be involved in some way.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Setting up Tribal militias that will work in conjunction with the Military to drive away and find out Taliban fighters should be the way to go. The locals have to be involved in some way.

To add to that - the military does have to first create the space and conditions for local involvement and development projects by clearing out the Taliban from certain regions. Only then will attempts to initiate development projects and involve locals in "village defense committees, etc. work.

 

[araz]

^^^ I tend to think its more of point B Araz.

If you look at the direction Kiyani has tried to steer the Army in (publicly), it is one of detachment from everything non-military, and he has quite clearly indicated that the Army will follow whatever policy the GoP decides.

If you were to take these attempts as sincere, and assume that this extended to FATA as well, then it becomes easier to understand why the Army withdrew from FATA, since the lot we elected, and Pakistanis in general, have been screaming about "operations against fellow Muslim brothers" and the need to try "dialog".

Now that the "dialog" has failed, after the false and temporaray "success" (reduction in suicide bombings and attacks on SF's), the civilian setup is finding it hard to adjust to the reality that the Taliban have done exactly what everyone was warning them would happen - they have regrouped and expanded.

The handing over of power to Kiyani may be step towards reality, that without military force and enforcement the Taliban will never stop their activities. However it is equally true that just military force alone will not solve the issue.

Setting up Tribal militias that will work in conjunction with the Military to drive away and find out Taliban fighters should be the way to go. The locals have to be involved in some way.

Agno
Army's disentanglement could have been strategic as well. As far as I know Army has maintained its position and force in the area. So what has happenend which has emboldenend these people so much. If they are stupid enough to launch something on Peshawar, where they will face a corps. and PAF. is it not possible to encircle them from behind to block their exits and wipe them out.
I think this has more to do with the AID from Uncle Sam. If you notice all of a sudden all tranches of aid has started flowing in. Our unwillingness to completely control this area has something to do with the double game that is being played in this region.Although I think in the long run this will come back to haunt us all.
I am inclined to believe in A more than B.I think things arwe moving far too leisurely for my liking for this to be B Scenario
WaSalam
Araz

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Since the subjects of this and the "Militants taking over Peshawar" thread cover the same underlying issues, I would like to move the discussion to the Peshawar thread -

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...emboldened-militants-set-sights-peshawar.html

I don't want to merge the threads at this point (each 3 pages long) since it might mix up all the posts, but I did copy over the last four or five posts.

 

[maqsad]

Well if anything this thread goes to show that the word Taliban does not mean a thing and serves no purpose except to cause confusion. Every tom dick and harry in the world seems to have "their taliban" killing and blowing things up for different reasons. You may as well use the word militant rather than taliban because there are so many different varieties of this elusive taliban breed that mentioning them always causes confusion unless their backers are also mentioned.