Taliban has to stop occupation in Afghanistan, Erdoğan says

[Mirzali Khan]

British gifted the land to ex indians.

It was more colonialism and part of the Great Game between British and Russia. Lets not forget that Afghanistan had land disputes with Russia along the Amu Darya.

here’s a link to a read which includes quotes of durrand himself and the Indian govt in that time. They never wanted to separate the land from afg but read it for yourself.

It was to demarcate spheres of influence. If they didn't want to separate the land from Afghanistan then why were the British bombing Waziristan and had 2 aerial campaigns there.

Following the Durand Agreement in 1893, the British were emboldened in governing the frontier tribes more directly, triggering a massive tribal rebellion in 1897, with the valiant stand of the Yusufzai at the Siege Malakand the most prominent feature. The Afridi also rebelled, even approaching Abdul Rahman, in the spirit of Afghan and Islamic solidarity, for assistance in their jihad. They were blanketly rejected by Abdul Rahman [40], even as an ‘exodus’ of Afghans traversed the Line to join their brethren in fighting the British. [41]

^This in it by itself proves that the Afghan historical leadership didn't care, they wanted their piece of the pie.

The land wasn’t sold, it was Sahibzada Abdul Qayyum who helped mortimer durrand create the agreement. And from the Afghan side it was sayed Abdul latif, both latif and Qayyum knew eachother. Once the agreement was signed, the Afghan king later had Abdul latif killed…

The British Government will retain in its own hands the control of the Khyber and Michni Passes, which lie between the Peshawar and Jelalabad districts, and of all relations with the independent tribes of the territory directly connected with these passes. For the further support of His Highness the Amir in the recovery and maintenance of his legitimate authority, and in consideration of the efficient fulfillment in their entirety of the engagements stipulated by the foregoing Articles, the British Government agrees to pay to His Highness the Amir and to his successors an annual subsidy of six lakhs of Rupees.

They payed him for the exchange, and the line was ratified by the rulers afterwards. Interesting to note that only when Pakistan movement was gaining steam only then they started to openly oppose.

logic says abdur rahman couldn’t speak or read English and just went off what someone told him. If Afghans truly sold the land they wouldn’t be fighting over it now. One has to remember Afghans are simple people and follow their old ways. Selling your land/people would be the worst thing to do today let alone back then for a Pashtun.

We've had a lot of sellouts and dawoosan as our leaders. Why do you think we are in this predicament? We are arguably the most disunited ever!

Borders are not drawn by luck, borders are drawn at the battle field. Until there’s a war, the durrand line issue will exist.

Technically Pakistan and Afghanistan have been fighting a 70 year long proxy war about it.

I don’t understand your Pashto…

Raazai chi bya kosh wakarho. Ta dakom zaay yay? Za Da Quetta yam

 

[TigerOfMysore]

All the Pashtuns living in what’s called PK migrated from Afghanistan so they’re all Afghan. You pakis even named/called your province Afghania… lol
California, New Mexico and Texas were all part of Mexico until they were tricked during war and gave up.

God what can I say to this drivel. Watch out we are coming for our Pushtun brothers and will support them in either taking over what is their God given right or grow our Pushtun province KPK. Like you yourself dont believe in the Durand line, as a Pushtun Pakistani I agree. I want more of our Pushtun ancestral lands back.

Yes both my maternal and paternal side's ancestors are from what is today called Afghanistan. As such we want our lands back. The Durand line is a cat that can be skinned both ways. In your eagerness to please your paymasters in India, coupled with your jealousy, dont be dumb enough to loose what you have. Focus on what you have otherwise the end result might be even worse than what you might think.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

All the Pashtuns living in what’s called PK migrated from Afghanistan so they’re all Afghan. You pakis even named/called your province Afghania… lol
California, New Mexico and Texas were all part of Mexico until they were tricked during war and gave up.

That's not true..noone knows real origin place of Pashtuns. As such we dont know whether it was Afghanistan or Pakistan where they originated.
That acronym was a thought of one person. It's real meaning is sar zameen e pak. Pak meaning 'tayab' the name used for prophet muhammad in Torah also synonymous to cleanliness and goodness.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

God what can I say to this drivel. Watch out we are coming for our Pushtun brothers and will support them in either taking over what is their God given right or grow our Pushtun province KPK. Like you yourself dont believe in the Durand line, as a Pushtun Pakistani I agree. I want more of our Pushtun ancestral lands back.

Yes both my maternal and paternal side's ancestors are from what is today called Afghanistan. As such we want our lands back. The Durand line is a cat that can be skinned both ways. In your eagerness to please your paymasters in India, coupled with your jealousy, dont be dumb enough to loose what you have. Focus on what you have otherwise the end result might be even worse than what you might think.

Twal afghanan warta sheyan wai.

Doy da Lar O Bar pa weelao hees na dai tralaasah karhy

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Twal afghanan warta sheyan wai.

Doy da Lar O Bar pa weelao hees na dai tralaasah karhy

Agree.

ایا تاسو په پښتو سکریپټ کې لیکلی شئ؟
It is easier to read than English script.

BTW Mata Pakhtu Laga Laga Razi, د انګلیسي تعلیم لعنت

 

[Khanlalajaan]

It was to demarcate spheres of influence. If they didn't want to separate the land from Afghanistan then why were the British bombing Waziristan and had 2 aerial campaigns there.

They were blanketly rejected by Abdul Rahman [40], even as an ‘exodus’ of Afghans traversed the Line to join their brethren in fighting the British. [41]

^This in it by itself proves that the Afghan historical leadership didn't care, they wanted their piece of the pie.

They payed him for the exchange, and the line was ratified by the rulers afterwards. Interesting to note that only when Pakistan movement was gaining steam only then they started to openly oppose.

We've had a lot of sellouts and dawoosan as our leaders. Why do you think we are in this predicament? We are arguably the most disunited ever!

Technically Pakistan and Afghanistan have been fighting a 70 year long proxy war about it.


Raazai chi bya kosh wakarho. Ta dakom zaay yay? Za Da Quetta yam

Sir Mortimer Durand wrote after the negotiations that:

The tribes on the Indian side are not to be considered as within British territory. They are simply under our influence in the technical sense of the term, that is to say, so far as the Amir is concerned and as far as they submit to our influence or we exert it.



Sir Denis Fitzpatrick, Lieutenant-Governor of the Punjab, wrote in a Government memorandum on the Durand Line in 1896 (a document which clearly purports to state the official understanding of the Government of India):

I think it is of the highest importance that it should simply be understood to be a line on our side of which the Amir’s [Abdur Rahman] interference except when we allow him to chastise a tribe, I think if the agreement between us and the Amir were treated to be anything like a partition of territory, it would have a bad effect, and although I see it must practically involve something like a partition of... the ‘Sphere of influence’ I think it would be unwise to put it expressly that way.


Moreover, although Afghanistan maintained a claim of sovereignty over the entire tribal hill territory, this was not recognized by the British. The Afghan claim to sovereignty of the region had been weakened by the failure of the government of Kabul to express any practical control or exercise any of the functions of government in the Tribal hill territories for a number of decades before 1893.

The British wasn’t the most honest and clean hearted back in the colonial days. God knows what they really did or told the king he was signing.

I’m sure our leaders have made mistakes by taking a wrong step or taking no step at all.

If the king did sell out, the population didn’t and like you quoted they helped fight the British.

I don’t think there’s a proxy war between afg and pak. I mostly hear the proxy war is between pak and India. Pak wants friendly neighbors not ones that might attack one day. Hence their support for taliban and chaos.

if you’re from Quetta then we speak the same dialect (kandahari) but sta pa Pashto Saar me na khalas kejhe. Kosh wakarho? I’ve Never heard Pashto that ends with ho.

 

[Khanlalajaan]

God what can I say to this drivel. Watch out we are coming for our Pushtun brothers and will support them in either taking over what is their God given right or grow our Pushtun province KPK. Like you yourself dont believe in the Durand line, as a Pushtun Pakistani I agree. I want more of our Pushtun ancestral lands back.

Yes both my maternal and paternal side's ancestors are from what is today called Afghanistan. As such we want our lands back. The Durand line is a cat that can be skinned both ways. In your eagerness to please your paymasters in India, coupled with your jealousy, dont be dumb enough to loose what you have. Focus on what you have otherwise the end result might be even worse than what you might think.

paymasters? WTH are you talking about. Typical trash that comes out of pakis mouths. I dislike all Indians and ex Indians, only like their chicken tikka masala and gulab jaman.

Pashtuns have always controlled Afghanistan. All the kings, presidents, leaders have been Pashtun. So I don’t know what you’re talking about helping Pashtuns take back what’s their god given right.
Pakistani Pashtun wants his ancestral Land back? Well your ancestors never called or considered themselves pakis or indian or British…. They called themselves afghan/pashtun, even the A in pakistan stands for Afghania…

you’re not a pashtun but rather an imposter since you recently said you understand a little Pashto

 

[TigerOfMysore]

paymasters? WTH are you talking about. Typical trash that comes out of pakis mouths. I dislike all Indians and ex Indians, only like their chicken tikka masala and gulab jaman.

Pashtuns have always controlled Afghanistan. All the kings, presidents, leaders have been Pashtun. So I don’t know what you’re talking about helping Pashtuns take back what’s their god given right.
Pakistani Pashtun wants his ancestral Land back? Well your ancestors never called or considered themselves pakis or indian or British…. They called themselves afghan/pashtun, even the A in pakistan stands for Afghania…

you’re not a pashtun but rather an imposter since you recently said you understand a little Pashto

Afghanistan had its time. Perhaps in some ways has its time too in the future. But Afghanistan cannot make its existence aligned with Pakistan's destruction or Pakistan's enemies. Afghanistan and Pakistan are too intrinsically tied together for that to work for either parties.

I agree that Pushtuns have overlorded as a group, but over years Afghanistan's minorities have gained enough strength and muscle, whereby they can be great spoilers to any experiment the Pashtuns in Afghanistan want to set.

In terms of wanting Ancestral lands back, that was tongue and cheek. It is at nutty to say that, as it is for an Afghan to ask for lands in Pakistan or a Mexican asking for lands in the US. Nations states are fictional notions, that flex and withdraw throughout the sands of history. And yes I agree our ancestors called themselves Afghan prior to the partition. I have pictures of my grand-fathers and even great grandfathers who were leaders and members of social groups with the term Afghan. But that was before Pakistan, and in large measure that was a function of at least some Pashtuns trying to build an anthropological narrative that did not align them to India and thereby Hindus or for that matter even the British. They wanted to express an independent identify, hence Afghan was adopted.

What Afghanis need to understand is that today as Pushtuns within Pakistan our identity is tied with our nation of Pakistan. Afghanis need to understand that this link is very strong. Much stronger to any link with Afghanistan. Even though as Pushtuns we care and would support our Pushtun brothers and sisters anywhere they are in the world. But never at the expense of our country Pakistan. That comes first.

Now in terms of speaking the language - that is one thing I personally regret. I wish my skills in Pushto were better. But if you dont live in a Pushtun area all your life, practice and speak the language it tends to wane, and then if your spouse also does not speak it - it gets worse. But coming from a family that is part of some of the larger Pushtun tribes, and who have local mountain ranges in KPK named after their direct family members, I am pretty comfortable in my genealogy. Not to mention my direct family members were governors of NWFP. Also Pashtuns in Pakistan as not as "Zabaan Parast" as you might think.Yes some are and it makes for constant jawing among pushtuns, but in the larger scheme of things it does not change who and where you are from.

In terms of the paymaster comment that comes from the fact that a group of Afghanis as well are some Pakistanis, which includes Pushtuns and non-Pushtuns have at the behest or Indian support, have created turmoil within Pakistan. The entire Bacha Khan line, the PTM types and the TTP types alongwith the Northern Alliance and others are absolutely coin operated by India. Those are the Afghans/Pushtuns that I have little patience for.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

ایا تاسو په پښتو سکریپټ کې لیکلی شئ؟

Ho za kolay sham

دا په کمپیوټر کې رنځونکی دی

BTW Mata Pakhtu Laga Laga Razi

Where are u from in Pakistan? Are you outside KPK/Balochistan (Pashtunkhwa)?

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Sir Mortimer Durand wrote after the negotiations that:

The tribes on the Indian side are not to be considered as within British territory. They are simply under our influence in the technical sense of the term, that is to say, so far as the Amir is concerned and as far as they submit to our influence or we exert it.



Sir Denis Fitzpatrick, Lieutenant-Governor of the Punjab, wrote in a Government memorandum on the Durand Line in 1896 (a document which clearly purports to state the official understanding of the Government of India):

I think it is of the highest importance that it should simply be understood to be a line on our side of which the Amir’s [Abdur Rahman] interference except when we allow him to chastise a tribe, I think if the agreement between us and the Amir were treated to be anything like a partition of territory, it would have a bad effect, and although I see it must practically involve something like a partition of... the ‘Sphere of influence’ I think it would be unwise to put it expressly that way.


Moreover, although Afghanistan maintained a claim of sovereignty over the entire tribal hill territory, this was not recognized by the British. The Afghan claim to sovereignty of the region had been weakened by the failure of the government of Kabul to express any practical control or exercise any of the functions of government in the Tribal hill territories for a number of decades before 1893.

The British wasn’t the most honest and clean hearted back in the colonial days. God knows what they really did or told the king he was signing.

What you quoted was fair as Durand line was a combination of colonialism and corruption, but history clearly shows their true intentions

Waziristan campaign (1919–1920) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Waziristan campaign (1936–1939) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hazara Expedition of 1888 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hunza–Nagar Campaign - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Chitral Expedition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tochi Expedition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Siege of Malakand - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tirah campaign - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mohmand campaign of 1897–1898 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's much much more. It just shows that it was a byproduct of colonialism hence all the campaigns and expeditions

If the king did sell out, the population didn’t and like you quoted they helped fight the British.

Durand Line caused a rift between Lar Pashtana and Bar Pashtana, I don't think around 100 years of the line being established and 70 years of Pakistan's existence the political conscience of both sides is gonna be reversed.

I don’t think there’s a proxy war between afg and pak. I mostly hear the proxy war is between pak and India. Pak wants friendly neighbors not ones that might attack one day. Hence their support for taliban and chaos.

In the beginning it was between Pakistan and Afghanistan, now India joined in recently with their proxies.

if you’re from Quetta then we speak the same dialect (kandahari) but sta pa Pashto Saar me na khalas kejhe. Kosh wakarho? I’ve Never heard Pashto that ends with ho.

کوس وکړو, transliteration for Pashto is hard

 

[Khanlalajaan]

What you quoted was fair as Durand line was a combination of colonialism and corruption, but history clearly shows their true intentions




Durand Line caused a rift between Lar Pashtana and Bar Pashtana, I don't think around 100 years of the line being established and 70 years of Pakistan's existence the political conscience of both sides is gonna be reversed.



In the beginning it was between Pakistan and Afghanistan, now India joined in recently with their proxies.

exactly history shows their true intentions, their nefarious past could also mean they conned the king one shape or form.

I don’t think such a rift really exists, that’s why 30-50% of pashtuns in the south still claim to being Afghan. Only a few tribes and/or those that work directly for the pk gov are the ones that deny it. This rift is probably pushed by a 3rd party to create disunity. Because unity of Pashtuns only means one thing and history shows what that is.

indian proxies? Are all the separatist groups in pk Indian proxies? I think it’s bs. ****-s claimed a fence on durrandline would stop terrorist, they wished for Taliban to take over to stop Indians, yet the attacks still occur.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Turkey needs to start sobering up or can try like US did. Afg is Pakistan's backyard and Turkey has got no business there. Pakistan and Turkey enjoy brotherly relations. And turkey must not confuse Pakistan with arabs and must not try to bite more than what it can swallow. In anycase; i think message is delivered loud and clear. If she wants to still try, sure, be Pakistan's guest.....

 

[BATMAN]

The Taliban must stop its occupation of Afghanistan, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan stated on Monday, underlining that it is utilizing the wrong approach.

"The Taliban should end the occupation of the soil of their brothers," Erdoğan stated in a press conference upon his departure to Northern Cyprus.

The insurgents capitalized on the final stages of the withdrawal of U.S. and other foreign troops from Afghanistan to launch a series of lightning offensives across the country.

The group is now believed to control roughly half of the nation's 400 districts, several important border crossings as well as having laid siege to a string of vital provincial capitals.

The U.S.-led military coalition has been on the ground in Afghanistan for nearly two decades following an invasion launched in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.



Fears are growing that Afghan forces will be overwhelmed without vital coalition air support, allowing for a complete Taliban military takeover or the start of a multisided civil war in a country awash with weapons following nearly four decades of fighting.

Erdoğan stated further that Turkey plans to talk with the Taliban over Kabul airport.

Turkey, whose forces in Afghanistan have always consisted of noncombatant troops, has offered to guard the airport as questions remain on how security will be assured along major transport routes and at the airport, which is the main gateway to the capital Kabul. The security of the airport is crucial for the operation of diplomatic missions out of Afghanistan as Western forces pull out.

The airport is in a strategic location close to the Afghan presidential palace and foreign diplomatic missions in Kabul and is the only place from which to evacuate diplomats in emergency situations.

The Turkish Foreign Ministry has called for a fair burden-sharing of the task given that "uninterrupted, safe operation of the airport is indispensable for the continued presence of diplomatic missions in Afghanistan."

At the end of a series of meetings with NATO leaders on the sidelines of the alliance summit in June, Erdoğan stated that Turkey was seeking Pakistani and Hungarian involvement in the mission in Afghanistan following the departure of the U.S.-led NATO force.

However, the Taliban have opposed Ankara's proposal, saying that Turkey should also withdraw its troops in line with the 2020 deal for the pullout.

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/taliban-has-to-stop-occupation-in-afghanistan-erdogan-says/news
Taliban has to stop occupation in Afghanistan, NATO'S Spokesperson :Erdoğan says

Why exactly?
Reason given ''Taliban have opposed Ankara's proposal'' in OP is not convincing enough!

 

[Mirzali Khan]

I don’t think such a rift really exists, that’s why 30-50% of pashtuns in the south still claim to being Afghan. Only a few tribes and/or those that work directly for the pk gov are the ones that deny it. This rift is probably pushed by a 3rd party to create disunity. Because unity of Pashtuns only means one thing and history shows what that is.

What makes you say that? I think the rift is more apparent in the north where a Kabuli and a Peshawari might be the same ethncity, but are following 2 different cultural trends.

The rift is more apparent geopolitically I think overall.

indian proxies? Are all the separatist groups in pk Indian proxies? I think it’s bs. ****-s claimed a fence on durrandline would stop terrorist, they wished for Taliban to take over to stop Indians, yet the attacks still occur.

There was a proxy war in the 50s and 60s between Pk and Afg, nowadays the battle for Afghanistan is with multiple players. Every insurgency needs some kind of local support tho.

 

[Khanlalajaan]

What makes you say that? I think the rift is more apparent in the north where a Kabuli and a Peshawari might be the same ethncity, but are following 2 different cultural trends.

The rift is more apparent geopolitically I think overall.



There was a proxy war in the 50s and 60s between Pk and Afg, nowadays the battle for Afghanistan is with multiple players. Every insurgency needs some kind of local support tho.

what makes me say that? I’ve seen Khyber tv asking people on the street questions and they don’t speak favorable of pk, I’ve seen elected officials say they’re afghans, even the owner of Peshawar zalmai team says he’s Afghan, musicians as well. I’d say the tribe that’s most anti afghan would be afridi. I’d assume that because most of them are deep in the **** military. Quetta on the other hand is a smaller Kandahar…

city centers and capitals are always different from smaller cities trend wise. But difference between Kabuli and Peshawari is one is heavily influenced by ****/Indian culture compared to the other. Watch AVT and you hear them mixing Pashto Urdu and English in their sentences. You won’t see that in Kabul.


pashtuns in the west say they’re **** because that flag flys in their city but Afghan because that’s what their elders were.

pak-is like Israelis and Americans are a country made from scratch so they tell the citizens you are from where you’re born. Where in reality in our culture you’re whatever your father or grandfather is.

I don’t blame Afghanistan for standing up for its pashtun brethren in the south. They were cheated in the referendum and weren’t given a favorable choice. Isn’t that what pk is doing for Kashmiris? But when Bangladesh separated from pk, pak-is let it go. The same would probably be true with Afghanistan and Pashtun tribes of the south.