Tale of a late Muslim Pakistani American F-15 Pilot

[Chogy]

Sir did you know that fella ?

No sir, natural change in assignments has all squadron personnel turned over after just 3 or 4 years maximum. It is called a tour of duty. But military people often think fondly on their old units, and want them to succeed.

He seemed to be a fine young man with a great background. To get a fighter right out of pilot training is very difficult. Only about 5% get them. Everyone else goes to other systems like bombers, transports, tankers, trainers, even drones these days.

 

[S-2]

Present Arms!

My sincere condolences to the family and friends of 1st Lt. Ali Jivanjee, U.S.A.F.

God protect and give comfort to those he's left behind.

 

[Jigs]

Respect to the fallen and may he rip.


YouTube - Military Taps

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

An Electrical Degree from UCLA why he became pilot, he could have became good scientist and work with NASA or Lockheed Martin!!

some people dont understand the honour of being a fighter pilot; those moments of glory and freedom in the air beat the hell out of sitting at a desk in civilian clothes --even if minting money

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Just to be on the safe side... I am opposed to Muslims participating in America's military... I said this a few years ago to an American Muslim soldier I met in the U.K as well...

brother, i enjoy reading many of your posts but I must be honest and frank with you.

i have a huge trouble digesting this one. Why shouldnt Muslims participate in America's military? Muslims are an integral part of the United States, there are over 10 million of them residing there (local born and immigrants).

in fact, it is immigrants that build and made America what it is.....

what was the reaction of this American Muslim soldier you met? Chances are, he disapproved.



why?


because when you join the any wing of the military, you swear an oath to defend the nation to whom you are a citizen and therefore obligated to protect and serve its interests







p.s. was it wrong for Muslim firemen and police to give their lives protecting and taking to safety the scores of traumatized victims in New York City on 9/11/2001?

 

[VCheng]

I salute the fallen warrior, and express my gratitude to his family, and to the great country which he swore to protect.

 

[Desert Fox]

 

[PakSher]

An Electrical Degree from UCLA why he became pilot, he could have became good scientist and work with NASA or Lockheed Martin!!

Yes, but if he wanted to be in combat being a pilot was the best option. May Allah bless his sole. Ameen

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

brother, i enjoy reading many of your posts but I must be honest and frank with you.

i have a huge trouble digesting this one. Why shouldnt Muslims participate in America's military? Muslims are an integral part of the United States, there are over 10 million of them residing there (local born and immigrants).

in fact, it is immigrants that build and made America what it is.....

what was the reaction of this American Muslim soldier you met? Chances are, he disapproved.



why?


because when you join the any wing of the military, you swear an oath to defend the nation to whom you are a citizen and therefore obligated to protect and serve its interests







p.s. was it wrong for Muslim firemen and police to give their lives protecting and taking to safety the scores of traumatized victims in New York City on 9/11/2001?

Yes bro Abu Zolfiqar... As I have said many times, I am all for discussion and would not hesitate to admit if I were wrong even... So God bless you for asking instead of keeping the question in your heart... (long live the internet!!!)

Ok I ll deal with the American soldier bit first... He was an actual American btw... Not someone from another country serving in US armed forces... to be exact he told me that he was an engineer and worked on F15s (aha thats a good one for you now sir Chogy)... and get ready for the surprise...

When I told the man that I disapprove of him as a Muslim serving in USAF he displayed absolutely no disapproval... and told me that I was not the first person telling him this... He actually said that he gets that ALL THE TIME FROM PEOPLE... Muslims and non Muslims alike!!!!

Regardless of his oath, I think he understood exactly where I was coming from... Soldiers after all are not robots and also have emotions... Interestingly this was actually at the time when the Iraq war had just started and things like Abu Ghraib had not made it to news networks yet...

Now for my reason... Lets understand something here... Regardless of our level of piety as Muslims we all know that our aim in life is to serve God and earn His pleasure...

How can we do that if we are ordered to bomb Muslim lands... with a given definite possibility that such an action can and will lead to some innocent Muslims dying... Just look at what America has done in Iraq... Hundreds and Thousands of people have died... Many because of American planes bombing... I have seen the dead body of a 12 year old girl buried under the rubble of her house... Its only collateral damage for the Americans but how can a Muslim serving in the USAF, a pilot to be more specific doing the same thing to an innocent Muslim justify that to himself... all at the behest of a war mongering regime of neocon Jews and the most hated president of the US (possibly of all times) George Bush Jr??

There are about 3000 or so Muslims serving in America's army... (correct me if I m wrong)... Thats a very tiny number considering the millions of Muslims living in the US... I dont see anything wrong with being Islamic and having the best interest of America in mind... but America's military has not really helped the image of America in this decade... You see what I m saying?

As for firefighters etc... Of course Muslims are part and parcel of the daily life in the west... Does nt matter if someone likes it or not... We have to be exemplary citizens... This is something I have always said to my community here... So the firefighters did a great job on 9/11 and I would never disapprove of such a noble profession anyway... a firefighter however can have political opinions of his own... but as far as the military is concerned... one is not allowed to say no and thus gets bound to the order of the Government... This is why I disapprove of Muslims participating in America's military... Its like not being able to do your job right because your heart is not in it completely... Had the Soviets been around, it could ve been argued about fighting the greater evil... but that does not hold true anymore... America definitely has its guns aimed at Muslim lands these days... Unfortunate as it is...

Forget the American soldier... One day soldiers from the British Army came and were looking for new recruits... I told this huge and tall Major standing there that I would have liked to get military practice but cant support him because Britain is invading Iraq on falsehood and lies... The Major smiled and said... "Yes that is a problem"... lol

I could sense that he was nt really happy at my comments...

A contract of work which may involve going out to kill innocent people is not even worth millions if offered... However there can be some roles that Muslims could work in US Army perhaps... like administrative roles... secretary any gentleman?

I believe some Muslim organizations inside America have publicly and actively discouraged Muslims from joining US military also... for these very reasons...

Hope I made myself clear... We can and should serve any country on Earth as good citizens... but cannot and should not accept injustice and oppression... Let America remove all soldiers from Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia etc and we could have a discussion on the topic again...

 

[shr_bwp]

An Electrical Degree from UCLA why he became pilot, he could have became good scientist and work with NASA or Lockheed Martin!!

Because he wanted to and could. That is the American way.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Because he wanted to and could. That is the American way.

Freedom!!!!

We are gonna ring a bell

Freedom to rock... Freedom to talk...

 

[forcetrip]

Yes bro Abu Zolfiqar... As I have said many times, I am all for discussion and would not hesitate to admit if I were wrong even... So God bless you for asking instead of keeping the question in your heart... (long live the internet!!!)

Ok I ll deal with the American soldier bit first... He was an actual American btw... Not someone from another country serving in US armed forces... to be exact he told me that he was an engineer and worked on F15s (aha thats a good one for you now sir Chogy)... and get ready for the surprise...

When I told the man that I disapprove of him as a Muslim serving in USAF he displayed absolutely no disapproval... and told me that I was not the first person telling him this... He actually said that he gets that ALL THE TIME FROM PEOPLE... Muslims and non Muslims alike!!!!

Regardless of his oath, I think he understood exactly where I was coming from... Soldiers after all are not robots and also have emotions... Interestingly this was actually at the time when the Iraq war had just started and things like Abu Ghraib had not made it to news networks yet...

Now for my reason... Lets understand something here... Regardless of our level of piety as Muslims we all know that our aim in life is to serve God and earn His pleasure...

How can we do that if we are ordered to bomb Muslim lands... with a given definite possibility that such an action can and will lead to some innocent Muslims dying... Just look at what America has done in Iraq... Hundreds and Thousands of people have died... Many because of American planes bombing... I have seen the dead body of a 12 year old girl buried under the rubble of her house... Its only collateral damage for the Americans but how can a Muslim serving in the USAF, a pilot to be more specific doing the same thing to an innocent Muslim justify that to himself... all at the behest of a war mongering regime of neocon Jews and the most hated president of the US (possibly of all times) George Bush Jr??

There are about 3000 or so Muslims serving in America's army... (correct me if I m wrong)... Thats a very tiny number considering the millions of Muslims living in the US... I dont see anything wrong with being Islamic and having the best interest of America in mind... but America's military has not really helped the image of America in this decade... You see what I m saying?

As for firefighters etc... Of course Muslims are part and parcel of the daily life in the west... Does nt matter if someone likes it or not... We have to be exemplary citizens... This is something I have always said to my community here... So the firefighters did a great job on 9/11 and I would never disapprove of such a noble profession anyway... a firefighter however can have political opinions of his own... but as far as the military is concerned... one is not allowed to say no and thus gets bound to the order of the Government... This is why I disapprove of Muslims participating in America's military... Its like not being able to do your job right because your heart is not in it completely... Had the Soviets been around, it could ve been argued about fighting the greater evil... but that does not hold true anymore... America definitely has its guns aimed at Muslim lands these days... Unfortunate as it is...

Forget the American soldier... One day soldiers from the British Army came and were looking for new recruits... I told this huge and tall Major standing there that I would have liked to get military practice but cant support him because Britain is invading Iraq on falsehood and lies... The Major smiled and said... "Yes that is a problem"... lol

I could sense that he was nt really happy at my comments...

A contract of work which may involve going out to kill innocent people is not even worth millions if offered... However there can be some roles that Muslims could work in US Army perhaps... like administrative roles... secretary any gentleman?

I believe some Muslim organizations inside America have publicly and actively discouraged Muslims from joining US military also... for these very reasons...

Hope I made myself clear... We can and should serve any country on Earth as good citizens... but cannot and should not accept injustice and oppression... Let America remove all soldiers from Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia etc and we could have a discussion on the topic again...

I think I understand what you mean and agree to disagree with you not because you are wrong but because you hold your faith and religion in a different light than many others. For me country comes first and serving in the military would be the ultimate thank you towards the land that feeds and clothes you. The politics of it all that you explained so well bear the emotional brunt in a soldier who is torn up about his religious duty as a citizen and a follower.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I think I understand what you mean and agree to disagree with you not because you are wrong but because you hold your faith and religion in a different light than many others. For me country comes first and serving in the military would be the ultimate thank you towards the land that feeds and clothes you. The politics of it all that you explained so well bear the emotional brunt in a soldier who is torn up about his religious duty as a citizen and a follower.

I agree... We have the case of Major Nidal... A tragedy that could have been prevented me thinks...

However bear in mind... the example that I gave of Iraq... it had played no part in attacking America... and did not even have the capability to do so...

 

[Dr sim]

Yes bro Abu Zolfiqar... As I have said many times, I am all for discussion and would not hesitate to admit if I were wrong even... So God bless you for asking instead of keeping the question in your heart... (long live the internet!!!)

Ok I ll deal with the American soldier bit first... He was an actual American btw... Not someone from another country serving in US armed forces... to be exact he told me that he was an engineer and worked on F15s (aha thats a good one for you now sir Chogy)... and get ready for the surprise...

When I told the man that I disapprove of him as a Muslim serving in USAF he displayed absolutely no disapproval... and told me that I was not the first person telling him this... He actually said that he gets that ALL THE TIME FROM PEOPLE... Muslims and non Muslims alike!!!!

Regardless of his oath, I think he understood exactly where I was coming from... Soldiers after all are not robots and also have emotions... Interestingly this was actually at the time when the Iraq war had just started and things like Abu Ghraib had not made it to news networks yet...

Now for my reason... Lets understand something here... Regardless of our level of piety as Muslims we all know that our aim in life is to serve God and earn His pleasure...

How can we do that if we are ordered to bomb Muslim lands... with a given definite possibility that such an action can and will lead to some innocent Muslims dying... Just look at what America has done in Iraq... Hundreds and Thousands of people have died... Many because of American planes bombing... I have seen the dead body of a 12 year old girl buried under the rubble of her house... Its only collateral damage for the Americans but how can a Muslim serving in the USAF, a pilot to be more specific doing the same thing to an innocent Muslim justify that to himself... all at the behest of a war mongering regime of neocon Jews and the most hated president of the US (possibly of all times) George Bush Jr??

There are about 3000 or so Muslims serving in America's army... (correct me if I m wrong)... Thats a very tiny number considering the millions of Muslims living in the US... I dont see anything wrong with being Islamic and having the best interest of America in mind... but America's military has not really helped the image of America in this decade... You see what I m saying?

As for firefighters etc... Of course Muslims are part and parcel of the daily life in the west... Does nt matter if someone likes it or not... We have to be exemplary citizens... This is something I have always said to my community here... So the firefighters did a great job on 9/11 and I would never disapprove of such a noble profession anyway... a firefighter however can have political opinions of his own... but as far as the military is concerned... one is not allowed to say no and thus gets bound to the order of the Government... This is why I disapprove of Muslims participating in America's military... Its like not being able to do your job right because your heart is not in it completely... Had the Soviets been around, it could ve been argued about fighting the greater evil... but that does not hold true anymore... America definitely has its guns aimed at Muslim lands these days... Unfortunate as it is...

Forget the American soldier... One day soldiers from the British Army came and were looking for new recruits... I told this huge and tall Major standing there that I would have liked to get military practice but cant support him because Britain is invading Iraq on falsehood and lies... The Major smiled and said... "Yes that is a problem"... lol

I could sense that he was nt really happy at my comments...

A contract of work which may involve going out to kill innocent people is not even worth millions if offered... However there can be some roles that Muslims could work in US Army perhaps... like administrative roles... secretary any gentleman?

I believe some Muslim organizations inside America have publicly and actively discouraged Muslims from joining US military also... for these very reasons...

Hope I made myself clear... We can and should serve any country on Earth as good citizens... but cannot and should not accept injustice and oppression... Let America remove all soldiers from Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia etc and we could have a discussion on the topic again...

REALLY.............?

 

[forcetrip]

REALLY.............?

Unfortunately the world does not revolve around your nothing exists policy. Some people have other schools of thought on the subject. Might as well stop the insensitive comments and learn someone elses beliefs while continuing to have your faith in nothing.