TAI/AgustaWestland T-129 Vs HAL Light Combat Helicopter

[Fahad Khan 2]

I am sure the way HAL handle it projects this bird will be coming in 2020....

just read the payload differences between them. turkish helicopter is 5000 LB and with full payload its 11000lb but Indian empty weight is 6000lb full payload 8000lb. you feel the difference?
Also, about electronics, and laser warning and other systems. Just to give an example, T-129 rotor can stand 15 cm of rock in case of it hits. and also it the most maneuverable helicopter in its class.

Indians claim big and end product will be inferior

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

I am sure the way HAL handle it projects this bird will be coming in 2020....


Indians claim big and end product will be inferior

Yep like , when they made product they defeated the thanks which is considered best by enemy. Indian ammunition for recoil gun destroyed Tanks which was considered indestructible by enemy and manufacture that time. This is pre -assumption coming form that time , nothing new.

 

[Gessler]

IIndians claim big and end product will be inferior

...inferior when compared to?

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

 

[jarves]

I am sure the way HAL handle it projects this bird will be coming in 2020....
Is delusions an inherent trait among Pakistanis or you are one special case??

Indians claim big and end product will be inferior

It depends with who you are comparing.If you are comparing it with the like of America or China then we can understand but if comparisonis with Pakistan then

 

[sudhir007]

ALH

 

[Kamil_baku]

It depends with who you are comparing.If you are comparing it with the like of America or China then we can understand but if comparisonis with Pakistan then

Dude, it not Pakistani Helicopter, Its Turkish.

 

[jarves]

Dude, it not Pakistani Helicopter, Its Turkish.

Off course i knew that,lol Dude you serioulsy thought that i didnt kknew this.This comparison has already been done before and that thread went beyond 20 pages if i remember correctly.Thats why nobody is taking interest in this thread.Although there were no Turks on this forum when that thread was opened.

 

[SRBM2]

read this carefully

Using this for anything is just plain naive to give it any weight for any specifications.
Only 2 of this helicopter actually in service of a military the rest are prototypes which have so far only published estimated specifications or specifications for advertizement which will differ alot from the end product untill they become actually combat ready.
The entire chart is riddled with so many false numbers and comperisions that is just ridiculous.
If the WZ-10 is counted on this chart as a light weight Attack Helicopter with aledged empty weight of 5540kg than so does AH-1Z and AH-64 count as light weight Attack Helicopters which have a similiar weight around 5500kg +/- 100kg.

So far no specifications on even fuselage parameters were given by China since they are still working on new engines and are implementing one subsystem after another for the self suite system so the empty weight will differ even from this chart which is unreliable and has no real source.

And LCH differs alot from every single helicopter in this chart alone due the design requirements which are far different than usual Attack Helicopters were designed. It has to be light to be used in high mountains, such a requirement is uncompromisable with high amount of armor or weapons load, which is can be seen on the fuselage how small and thin the armor actually is. The big windows don't help there either. Overall it is just a niche helicopter with different requirements to be able to perform similiar targets under specific defined environment, which makes it could for India and maybe some boardering countries with similiar hotspots in mountain terrain but other than that it is almost unmarktable and a helicopter designed on very specific needs. Still a prototype that will change a lot through the years.

Giving this facts i find it little bit shocking how the vote turned out in favor of a prototype that isn't even usuable in any conditions where T-129 would have already trouble.

 

[Neptune]

Using this for anything is just plain naive to give it any weight for any specifications.
Only 2 of this helicopter actually in service of a military the rest are prototypes which have so far only published estimated specifications or specifications for advertizement which will differ alot from the end product untill they become actually combat ready.
The entire chart is riddled with so many false numbers and comperisions that is just ridiculous.
If the WZ-10 is counted on this chart as a light weight Attack Helicopter with aledged empty weight of 5540kg than so does AH-1Z and AH-64 count as light weight Attack Helicopters which have a similiar weight around 5500kg +/- 100kg.

So far no specifications on even fuselage parameters were given by China since they are still working on new engines and are implementing one subsystem after another for the self suite system so the empty weight will differ even from this chart which is unreliable and has no real source.

And LCH differs alot from every single helicopter in this chart alone due the design requirements which are far different than usual Attack Helicopters were designed. It has to be light to be used in high mountains, such a requirement is uncompromisable with high amount of armor or weapons load, which is can be seen on the fuselage how small and thin the armor actually is. The big windows don't help there either. Overall it is just a niche helicopter with different requirements to be able to perform similiar targets under specific defined environment, which makes it could for India and maybe some boardering countries with similiar hotspots in mountain terrain but other than that it is almost unmarktable and a helicopter designed on very specific needs. Still a prototype that will change a lot through the years.

Giving this facts i find it little bit shocking how the vote turned out in favor of a prototype that isn't even usuable in any conditions where T-129 would have already trouble.

Because the majority of this forum is Indian

 

[Abingdonboy]

Using this for anything is just plain naive to give it any weight for any specifications.
Only 2 of this helicopter actually in service of a military the rest are prototypes which have so far only published estimated specifications or specifications for advertizement which will differ alot from the end product untill they become actually combat ready.
The entire chart is riddled with so many false numbers and comperisions that is just ridiculous.
If the WZ-10 is counted on this chart as a light weight Attack Helicopter with aledged empty weight of 5540kg than so does AH-1Z and AH-64 count as light weight Attack Helicopters which have a similiar weight around 5500kg +/- 100kg.

So far no specifications on even fuselage parameters were given by China since they are still working on new engines and are implementing one subsystem after another for the self suite system so the empty weight will differ even from this chart which is unreliable and has no real source.

And LCH differs alot from every single helicopter in this chart alone due the design requirements which are far different than usual Attack Helicopters were designed. It has to be light to be used in high mountains, such a requirement is uncompromisable with high amount of armor or weapons load, which is can be seen on the fuselage how small and thin the armor actually is. The big windows don't help there either. Overall it is just a niche helicopter with different requirements to be able to perform similiar targets under specific defined environment, which makes it could for India and maybe some boardering countries with similiar hotspots in mountain terrain but other than that it is almost unmarktable and a helicopter designed on very specific needs. Still a prototype that will change a lot through the years.

Giving this facts i find it little bit shocking how the vote turned out in favor of a prototype that isn't even usuable in any conditions where T-129 would have already trouble.

I agree- to an extent, about the Indian Users' specific (rather unique) requirements shaping the LCH into a, somewhat, niche product and I would even say that as a result the LCH does have lesser ballistic protection as compared to some of its contemporaries. But I don't think you could say that as a result the LCH is "under armed" or able to carry less weapons - at high altitude perhaps but at sea level it has a very comparable weapons load to the T-129 or WZ-10.

And to call it "unmarketable" is pretty silly.

 

[ni8mare]

Using this for anything is just plain naive to give it any weight for any specifications.
Only 2 of this helicopter actually in service of a military the rest are prototypes which have so far only published estimated specifications or specifications for advertizement which will differ alot from the end product untill they become actually combat ready.
The entire chart is riddled with so many false numbers and comperisions that is just ridiculous.
If the WZ-10 is counted on this chart as a light weight Attack Helicopter with aledged empty weight of 5540kg than so does AH-1Z and AH-64 count as light weight Attack Helicopters which have a similiar weight around 5500kg +/- 100kg.

So far no specifications on even fuselage parameters were given by China since they are still working on new engines and are implementing one subsystem after another for the self suite system so the empty weight will differ even from this chart which is unreliable and has no real source.

And LCH differs alot from every single helicopter in this chart alone due the design requirements which are far different than usual Attack Helicopters were designed. It has to be light to be used in high mountains, such a requirement is uncompromisable with high amount of armor or weapons load, which is can be seen on the fuselage how small and thin the armor actually is. The big windows don't help there either. Overall it is just a niche helicopter with different requirements to be able to perform similiar targets under specific defined environment, which makes it could for India and maybe some boardering countries with similiar hotspots in mountain terrain but other than that it is almost unmarktable and a helicopter designed on very specific needs. Still a prototype that will change a lot through the years.

Giving this facts i find it little bit shocking how the vote turned out in favor of a prototype that isn't even usuable in any conditions where T-129 would have already trouble.

yeah i kw that was riddled with wrong info....it is just a representational only...
with being said that saying its unmarketable is silly....
and about weapons load you can post the specs here LCH willl be almost same as what given in chart then we can copmare

 

[SRBM2]

For the point of how marketable or unmarketable it is we can compare how many countries are there that have a constant or an immidiate necessity for a helicopter which they currently do not have through the lack of specific niche helicopters like the LCH.

How many countries are there that operate already any kind of Helicopter for fighting in high altitudes that are either unarmored like some utility or transport helicopters like Mi-8 or UH-60 or smaller versions of Utility Helicopters. Only those countries would see a necessity for LCH, but countries that have more than this specific situation and have to fight in lot of other environments including high intensive warfare the LCH just does not see any real chances compared with the competition it has even in the prize.

If you already have countries that need at some point or some region within their cuntry helicopters with such attributes but at the same time should performe well in other situations they would choose most probably to use just unarmored utility helicopters or just go for expensive birds like Tiger,A/T-129,AH-1 and even the Mi-35M2 can operate in high altitudes when not loaded to MTOW with its new 2500hp engines.

 

[ni8mare]

For the point of how marketable or unmarketable it is we can compare how many countries are there that have a constant or an immidiate necessity for a helicopter which they currently do not have through the lack of specific niche helicopters like the LCH.

How many countries are there that operate already any kind of Helicopter for fighting in high altitudes that are either unarmored like some utility or transport helicopters like Mi-8 or UH-60 or smaller versions of Utility Helicopters. Only those countries would see a necessity for LCH, but countries that have more than this specific situation and have to fight in lot of other environments including high intensive warfare the LCH just does not see any real chances compared with the competition it has even in the prize.

If you already have countries that need at some point or some region within their cuntry helicopters with such attributes but at the same time should performe well in other situations they would choose most probably to use just unarmored utility helicopters or just go for expensive birds like Tiger,A/T-129,AH-1 and even the Mi-35M2 can operate in high altitudes when not loaded to MTOW with its new 2500hp engines.

we still don't know the spec of LCH so its moot point to discuss MTOW even LCH can have same weapon load as T-129 but with sacrificed altitude....

first understand that its first of its kind ...an combat helicopter specifically made for high altitude mountain warfare , that does not mean it cannot be used in plains of desert ..
and like any airforce/army aviation everyone have HI-LO mix...... LCH is low and AH-64 is high

 

[Lonely Hermit]

And LCH differs alot from every single helicopter in this chart alone due the design requirements which are far different than usual Attack Helicopters were designed. It has to be light to be used in high mountains, such a requirement is uncompromisable with high amount of armor or weapons load, which is can be seen on the fuselage how small and thin the armor actually is.

LCH ceramic armour can withstand 12.7 mm bullet but it was designed to be light, so that it can operate at height at which very few choppers operate.
Broadsword: More on the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)
http://civil.iisc.ernet.in/nsglec2013.pdf
In fact ALH from which LCH is derived has load performance better than Mi 17 at certain altitudes.
I agree with your point though each weapon system is designed to operate in different condition and environment & it will be unfair to compare them in such a way.