Tagore, The Islamophobe....

[khair_ctg]

I read and listened to Tagore extensively, possibly more than anyone on the forum. Tagore created some of the finest pieces of literature that are out there.

Having said that, I can only find one reference to a short story by Tagore named " Musalmanir Golpo." I don't know if it actually by him or not. However the story does show Tagores overwhelming concern about the communalism in Hindu religion as he observed.

Yet he is revered in Bangladesh, goes to show how secular are the folks in BD contrary to what some is trying to propagate

that is not called secularism. that is Hindu cultural chauvinism and a very Islamphobic tendency to get rid of Muslim cultural elements for Hindu-Brahmin culture (and call it "Bengali") that we have seen from the time of the Hindu zamindars and we see today from anti-Muslim people passing off as Muslim

@khair_ctg , I will take a stab at the translation of this piece.

It is not word for word translation as that does not make sense when idiomatic language is used, but it ill convey the sense.



Where minds are free from Fear and heads are held high....

Where there are no limits and Prohibition on Knowledge.....

Where the local ( Regional ) boundaries have not broken up our World into little pieces.....

Where the words come out of the Depths of the Truth.....

Where the Fountain of Wisdom has not lost its way in the harsh nature of the deserts....

I hope my land will awake in the Freedom such a Paradise......

i don't know much about this exact poem or song. but who knows, R. Tagore might have been calling resistance from Muslims to the removal of Muslim culture as "limiting" and "prohibiting" - while imposition of his culture on Muslims alien to it was "Fountain of Wisdom".

R. Tagore taken out of context had some noble thought in the works. kept in context, he and the religious-economic class he was part of was quite malicious. i hope "RoshniPK" was just short of a little more research about the man

 

[fallstuff]

that is not called secularism. that is Hindu cultural chauvinism and a very Islamphobic tendency to get rid of Muslim cultural elements for Hindu-Brahmin culture (and call it "Bengali") that we have seen from the time of the Hindu zamindars and we see today from anti-Muslim people passing off as Muslim


i don't know much about this exact poem or song. but who knows, R. Tagore might have been calling resistance from Muslims to the removal of Muslim culture as "limiting" and "prohibiting" - while imposition of his culture on Muslims alien to it was "Fountain of Wisdom".

R. Tagore taken out of context had some noble thought in the works. kept in context, he and the religious-economic class he was part of was quite malicious. i hope "RoshniPK" was just short of a little more research about the man

Perhaps I should have used the word tolerant. Tagore is popular simply because of his work. There is no one like him in Bangla literature. I keep politics and art separate. I don't like Michael Savage's political leanings, but his right wing influenced radio talk show is the most entertaining of all the shows.

Tagore as an individual IMO enjoyed the attention he was getting. He barely saw his wife when she was seriously ill as he was busy in his work.

Many complained about a certain level of anti-Muslim phobia in Bankim's work, I never heard from anyone who studied Tagore complained about his bias. Tagore just didn't write stories involving Muslim characters. If you know about his bias in his work, please point me to that credible source as I am curious myself.

BTW who the heck is RoshniPK ? Never heard of any such outfit.

 

[scholseys]

Perhaps I should have used the word tolerant. Tagore is popular simply because of his work. There is no one like him in Bangla literature. I keep politics and art separate. I don't like Michael Savage's political leanings, but his right wing influenced radio talk show is the most entertaining of all the shows.

Tagore as an individual IMO enjoyed the attention he was getting. He barely saw his wife when she was seriously ill as he was busy in his work.

Many complained about a certain level of anti-Muslim phobia in Bankim's work, I never heard from anyone who studied Tagore complained about his bias. Tagore just didn't write stories involving Muslim characters. If you know about his bias in his work, please point me to that credible source as I am curious myself.

BTW who the heck is RoshniPK ? Never heard of any such outfit.

his literature may be good, but using the national antem of such a communally controversial figure is bound to have polarizing effect.

 

[Airboss786]

Those responsible for urdu/hindi were students of Baba Farid, shocked right? Again i don't expect gawar bihari to know little details. Anyway you should be proud of your bhaia language being bihari hindu instead of urdu.

Another case of inferioty complex lol

In reference to "bihari hindi' it would be more accurate to say 'bihari PERSIANIZED hindi'!

The Kushans, Huns, Greeks, Persians, Parthians, Scythians etc. used underground tunnels from Kabul to enter Delhi directly without affecting the ancient Nordic gene pool of Pakistanis. Dimag ke nut kas le norri natt.

Show the source of your claim!

 

[toxic_pus]

...a communally controversial figure...

He is 'communally controversial' only in the minds of dumb fvcks such as yourself who, in all probability, haven't read a single line from any of his work.

 

[scholseys]

He is 'communally controversial' only in the minds of dumb fvcks such as yourself who, in all probability, haven't read a single line from any of his work.

another name calling Indian

 

[khair_ctg]

Perhaps I should have used the word tolerant. Tagore is popular simply because of his work. There is no one like him in Bangla literature. I keep politics and art separate. I don't like Michael Savage's political leanings, but his right wing influenced radio talk show is the most entertaining of all the shows.

Tagore as an individual IMO enjoyed the attention he was getting. He barely saw his wife when she was seriously ill as he was busy in his work.

Many complained about a certain level of anti-Muslim phobia in Bankim's work, I never heard from anyone who studied Tagore complained about his bias. Tagore just didn't write stories involving Muslim characters. If you know about his bias in his work, please point me to that credible source as I am curious myself.

BTW who the heck is RoshniPK ? Never heard of any such outfit.

if he didn't write about Muslims, that is understandable and fine. but that he is symbolically imposed on the very people he was never concerned about, and made into cult for secular extreme Bengalis (for whom Muslim is secondary), it is bound create frictions and reservation about R. Tagore. there again the literature he contributed in was Hindu literature made to be adopted by Muslims

and the word tolerance is exaggerating quite a bit. how can you call this extreme tendency to eliminate Muslim heritage and cultural elements, and adopt Hindu zamindari impositions in their place tolerance?

 

[fallstuff]

if he didn't write about Muslims, that is understandable and fine. but that he is symbolically imposed on the very people he was never concerned about, and made into cult for secular extreme Bengalis (for whom Muslim is secondary), it is bound create frictions and reservation about R. Tagore. there again the literature he contributed in was Hindu literature made to be adopted by Muslims

and the word tolerance is exaggerating quite a bit. how can you call this extreme tendency to eliminate Muslim heritage and cultural elements, and adopt Hindu zamindari impositions in their place tolerance?

You need to read his work to understand why he was popular. My mother never missed a prayer in her life yet she loved his works especially the musicals.

IMO opinion the only other figure that is somewhat comparable to him is Nazrul. BTV been playing Tagore and Nazrul since the 70's.

AL Bengali Nationalism is pure BS. You can't have Bengali Nationalism as it is not the identity but ethnicity of the people. The identity of people in Bangladesh is Bangladeshi.

What AL is trying to impose on people is not going to go anywhere as people can see through their BS.

 

[LaBong]

I read and listened to Tagore extensively, possibly more than anyone on the forum. Tagore created some of the finest pieces of literature that are out there.

Having said that, I can only find one reference to a short story by Tagore named " Musalmanir Golpo." I don't know if it actually by him or not. However the story does show Tagores overwhelming concern about the communalism in Hindu religion as he observed.

Yet he is revered in Bangladesh, goes to show how secular are the folks in BD contrary to what some is trying to propagate

Strange way to gauge secularism. Shakespeare didn't write anything about Hindus, now since I enjoy Shakespeare so that makes me secular eh?

Tagore simply didn't write more about Muslims because it didn't fancy his imagination. He did write against Hindu communalism because he was directly affected by it being from a monotheistic reformist branch of Hinduism.

@khair_ctg , I will take a stab at the translation of this piece.

It is not word for word translation as that does not make sense when idiomatic language is used, but it ill convey the sense.



Where minds are free from Fear and heads are held high....

Where there are no limits and Prohibition on Knowledge.....

Where the local ( Regional ) boundaries have not broken up our World into little pieces.....

Where the words come out of the Depths of the Truth.....

Where the Fountain of Wisdom has not lost its way in the harsh nature of the deserts....

I hope my land will awake in the Freedom such a Paradise......

Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

As translated by Tagore himself.

 

[LaBong]

@Thread

Thread-starter, the udgandu

 

[baajey]

another name calling Indian

calling "murtad" n other things is not name calling i suppose. ???

 

[scholseys]

calling "murtad" n other things is not name calling i suppose. ???

idol worshipper

 

[fallstuff]

Strange way to gauge secularism. Shakespeare didn't write anything about Hindus, now since I enjoy Shakespeare so that makes me secular eh?

Tagore simply didn't write more about Muslims because it didn't fancy his imagination. He did write against Hindu communalism because he was directly affected by it being from a monotheistic reformist branch of Hinduism.




Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

As translated by Tagore himself.

Here is some more strange stuff,

Two women Prime Ministers elected alternatively for the last 23 years and for all likelihood will stay like that in the foreseeable future.

Then it gets weird,

JI actually was/is in a coalition headed by a woman.

 

[baajey]

idol worshipper

whoa.....i thot its worse.......n now it seems its not even offensive.......it sounds so offensive

 

[dray]

View attachment 24191
yahan pe kya keh raha hai?

@Armstrong @SHAMK9 @Areesh @Pakistanisage @Aeronaut

Can't translate it word it by word so I'll let someone do the job but damn, that's really good.

@khair_ctg , I will take a stab at the translation of this piece.

It is not word for word translation as that does not make sense when idiomatic language is used, but it ill convey the sense.


Where minds are free from Fear and heads are held high....

Where there are no limits and Prohibition on Knowledge.....

Where the local ( Regional ) boundaries have not broken up our World into little pieces.....

Where the words come out of the Depths of the Truth.....

Where the Fountain of Wisdom has not lost its way in the harsh nature of the deserts....

I hope my land will awake in the Freedom such a Paradise......

@khair_ctg It is the famous Bengali poem of Rabindranath Tagore; "Chitto Jetha Bhoyshunyo", not any evil conspiracy against the Muslims of Bangladesh, and Rabindranath was against the partition of Bengal, it was unthinkable for many Bengalis, but that doesn't qualify him as a Muslim hater. But I agree that you have all the right to reject a Hindu poet & writer, you guys have already rejected Hindu Bengalis, another poet won't make a difference. And for Tagore, he will remain in our hearts, his true place.

@SHAMK9 Liked that?? The poem was composed in the year 1900 & published in the year 1901.

@Pakistanisage That was a very good attempt, the actual translation is as below.

Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.