Tagore, The Islamophobe....

[dawn_news]

Oh brother the feudals are still Pakistanis aren't they? the majority of agricultural land is held by a few people and I can assure you they did not sweat for any of it. That's the way things worked in those days, I don't hold it against them. So I don't think you should hold this against Tagore either.

Feudalism in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As i said only Sindh and some parts of South Punjab are under feudal. And these parts are poorest. For exemple upper punjab is much more developed area compared to South Punjan because people don't depend on feudals. Feudalism is curse which Pakistan didnt get rid of after 47. So those areas which remained under them are still poor compared to rest of the country.

For exemple i have great hopes for Balochistan but not for interior Sindh where feudals dominate. Interior Sindh will remain backward going forward. So its hard for me to respect feudals like Tagore.

 

[khair_ctg]

Oh brother the feudals are still Pakistanis aren't they? the majority of agricultural land is held by a few people and I can assure you they did not sweat for any of it. That's the way things worked in those days, I don't hold it against them. So I don't think you should hold this against Tagore either.

Feudalism in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so you are trying to equate landowning Muslims with Brahmin zamindars? the Muslims fought for Muslims, the Brahmins fought against them. that is the difference. there were Hindus too who did not practise zamindari and there definitely were non-Muslims who opted to live in a Muslim state and so chose to live in East Pakistan

 

[kalu_miah]

Communalism in Undivided Bengal: Shrouding Class Conflict with Religion Taj Hashmi

"The Hindu opposition to the Dhaka University proposal, by men like Ashutosh Mukherjee and Rabindranath Tagore, and their constantly vociferous opposition to any attempt to grant more rights to Bengal peasants through amendments of the Bengal Tenancy Act during 1923-38, the Free Rural Primary Education Bill, the Money-lenders Bill in the 1930s and 1940s sharply polarized the two communities both within and outside the Bengal legislature. Fazlul Huq, Maulana Bhashani, H.S. Suhrawardy, Khwaja Nazimuddin, Abul Hashim, Nawab Salimullah and Sir Abdur Rahim, among others, championed the Muslim/peasant cause and Hindu politicians, professionals, intellectuals and journalists openly promoted Zamindar-Bhadralok-Mahajan interests to the detriment of Muslims/peasants up to the Partition of 1947."

 

[EasyNow]

you are over-analyzing. R. Tagore was against the concept that Bengal Muslims would be able to practise their religion and culture freely - whereas Bangladesh exists in its borders since 1947 in opposition to R. Tagore's ideals.

not you, i meant how indians post and then BD members react and it leads to a verbal fight.

R. Tagore stood against the basis for Bangladesh's very existence. if any Hindu, Muslim or whoever, has had a problem with Muslims or a Muslim state, they couldn't have been a part of East Pakistan and so couldn't have been a part of Bangladesh

Most of the Hindus that remained were too poor to move. It does not mean that they agreed with any particular movement.

You are saying, Tagores work should be rejected because he was against BD, how can you make that claim when the man died even before Indian Independence, let alone Bangladesh.

so you are trying to equate landowning Muslims with Brahmin zamindars? the Muslims fought for Muslims, the Brahmins fought against them. that is the difference. there were Hindus too who did not practise zamindari and there definitely were non-Muslims who opted to live in a Muslim state and so chose to live in East Pakistan

No you are wrong to cast this in a Muslim v Hindu light. All landlords exploited the poor farmers on behalf of their patrons. In Bd the patrons happened to be British and in Pakistan they happenned to be Muslims - the plight of the Muslim farmer was not much better in either scenario.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

@Nuri Natt vs @Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury
wow their anthropological & genealogical debates
creates a mesmerizing "Aesthetics"

 

[dawn_news]

@Nuri Natt vs @Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury
wow their anthropological & genealogical debates
creates a mesmerizing "Aesthetics"

I hope you didnt take it seriously

 

[khair_ctg]

Most of the Hindus that remained were too poor to move. It does not mean that they agreed with any particular movement.

You are saying, Tagores work should be rejected because he was against BD, how can you make that claim when the man died even before Indian Independence, let alone Bangladesh.

many Bengali and non-Bengali Muslims also came from India to East Pak/BD with nothing. the issue was the Hindus who stayed back in East Pak had to accept the new state they were in (otherwise, they would be enemies or traitors by default). technically R. Tagore could as well have taken citizenship of East Pak had he been alive, but it's clear where his allegiance lied.

Tagore's work should be rejected as nationally endorsed, as his background and his works were against the very basis for Bengal Muslims' nationhood. in BD, if i as a Muslim or Hindu or anything else choose to become Rabindra singer out of personal interests, no one should put that against me imo

 

[IamBengali]

Rabindranath and Nazrul Islam both are Indians and both are integral part of Bangladesh. Rabindranath spent 20 years in East Bengal (Bangladesh). So you can not write Ranbindra history without Bangladesh but Nazrul Islam hardly spent time in Bangladesh except his last few years when he was ill. Nazrul was declaired 'Kafir' by fundamentalists because of his anti-religious attitudes. Nazrul was way more anti-religion than Ranbindranath. Nazrul named his sons after Hindu Gods. He married a Hindu woman. He was a devote of Rabindranath. He was deeply upset when he heard about Rabindranath's demise.

@aazidane , what will you do with this 'murtad' Nazrul? Rabindranath was Hindu, not Murtad but Nazrul was declaired Kafir and Murtad. Will you ban Nazrul now from Bangladesh?

 

[khair_ctg]

Rabindranath and Nazrul Islam both are Indians and both are integral part of Bangladesh. Rabindranath spent 20 years in East Bengal (Bangladesh). So you can not write Ranbindra history without Bangladesh but Nazrul Islam hardly spent time in Bangladesh except his last few years when he was ill. Nazrul was declaired 'Kafir' by fundamentalists because of his anti-religious attitudes. Nazrul was way more anti-religion than Ranbindranath. Nazrul named his sons after Hindu Gods. He married a Hindu woman. He was a devote of Rabindranath. He was deeply upset when he heard about Rabindranath's demise.

@aazidane , what will you do with this 'murtad' Nazrul? Rabindranath was Hindu, not Murtad but Nazrul was declaired Kafir and Murtad. Will you ban Nazrul now from Bangladesh?

R. Tagore was part of an oppressor class and part of the reason Muslims and Hindus parted ways with separate nations. and Nazr ul Islam grew up in a Hindu-majority environment. i know a lot of his work that are close to Hindu devotional songs. who is denying that? what Nazr ul Islam did not do and couldn't have done is oppose socioeconomic progress of Muslims and independent expression of Muslim culture in Bengal. in fact his family background suggests he directly or indirectly had borne the brunt of the Brahmin domination. Nazr ul Islam is relevant and acceptable to Muslims and non-Muslims for that reason. however, R. Tagore is relevant to Hindus (or just a select part of them)

 

[Skies]

Rabindranath spent 20 years in East Bengal (Bangladesh).

He was here for 20 years to lookafter his Zamidari properties, not because he loved this place actually.

 

[Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury]

He was here for 20 years to lookafter his Zamidari properties, not because he loved this place actually.

Most Bengali Brahmins are historically from East Bengal.

 

[khair_ctg]

yahan pe kya keh raha hai?

@Armstrong @SHAMK9 @Areesh @Pakistanisage @Aeronaut

 

[SHAMK9]

View attachment 24191
yahan pe kya keh raha hai?

@Armstrong @SHAMK9 @Areesh @Pakistanisage @Aeronaut

Can't translate it word it by word so I'll let someone do the job but damn, that's really good.

 

[Pakistanisage]

@khair_ctg , I will take a stab at the translation of this piece.

It is not word for word translation as that does not make sense when idiomatic language is used, but it ill convey the sense.



Where minds are free from Fear and heads are held high....

Where there are no limits and Prohibition on Knowledge.....

Where the local ( Regional ) boundaries have not broken up our World into little pieces.....

Where the words come out of the Depths of the Truth.....

Where the Fountain of Wisdom has not lost its way in the harsh nature of the deserts....

I hope my land will awake in the Freedom such a Paradise......

 

[fallstuff]

I read and listened to Tagore extensively, possibly more than anyone on the forum. Tagore created some of the finest pieces of literature that are out there.

Having said that, I can only find one reference to a short story by Tagore named " Musalmanir Golpo." I don't know if it actually by him or not. However the story does show Tagores overwhelming concern about the communalism in Hindu religion as he observed.

Yet he is revered in Bangladesh, goes to show how secular are the folks in BD contrary to what some is trying to propagate