T-84 oplot M fails testing what now for the army, in terms of tanks?

[Barmaley]

I read that discussion and let me contribute some words to it

The Oplot-M has been chosen probably, because of logistical reasons and not because of his capabilities, but i think it was a mistake. Why? Because modern Ukraine can't produce tanks in big numbers.

Just look at the history of Thailand contract with Ukraine. Contract with Thailand was signed in 2011 for delivery of 49 Oplot-M and 2 recovery vehicles on its base.
Since 2011 was delivered to Thailand only 10(!!!) of Oplot-M and today is 2015...

So i'm pretty sure that Pakistan will not be happy with this contract in near future. Mark my words.

There was also discussion about "Ukrainian technologies" and in general in cooperation with Russian Military industrial complex.
First of all, Ukraine doesn't produce any key technologies for Russian techs(except maybe gas turbines for ships, but its will be also replaced). The andrei-bt claims that they produce thermal vision, but in fact they don't have technologies of production matrix for thermal cameras, they bought them from sagem, irrc.

The second one, Russia producing their own thermal visions for tanks, helicopters. etc. without any foreign components.

Also, the main reason why ukraine even producing some components for Russia, because 1. Salaries in ukraine x3 time smaller then in Russia, so products are cheaper, this is including military hardware.
2.Ukrainian industrial complex produced some components only for old techs, such as BMP-2, some spare parts for helicopters engines which is were designed during soviet times and so cooperation stays since this times.
The same why Belarussian thermal sign was chosen for modernisation of T-72B, because this product is also cheaper.

There was some question. Why Russia don't use T-80 and going for T-72.
Because we have plans of unification of our combat platforms, first step is make tank forces only T-72\T-90 operating platform, the next step, the Armata platform will replace all this tanks, recovery vehicles and many many others military vehicles.

Also, i strongly don't recommend to you read that crap which is written by anrei-bt He's on the salary of ukroboron prom and talk cr@p about tanks which is were produced by Uralvagonzavod all the time. It's he's personal problem, but that's another story

 

[Sulman Badshah]

HIT officials say a key item sought for the Al-Khalid is a third generation thermal imaging sight such as the Altay's.

i think that HIT should add sub system from turkey into the new AK that is suppose to be unveil at ideas 2016

 

[Andrei_bt]

Since 2011 was delivered to Thailand only 10(!!!) of Oplot-M and today is 2015...

Because payment delay from Thai side, thay actually payed only for 5 for now. They had a revolution recently also.

The second one, Russia producing their own thermal visions for tanks, helicopters. etc. without any foreign components.

I ask you - show me a tank where they are installed?
And BTW thouse Agat and Irbis a just upgrades of Soviet era Agat commander sight (no HK, only vertical stab.) and Buran (no stabilization, slaved to gun).

Also, i strongly don't recommend to you read that crap which is written by anrei-bt He's on the salary of ukroboron prom and talk cr@p about tanks which is were produced by Uralvagonzavod all the time.

Where can I get my salary

P.S. It will be helpful if moderators will not allow such ungrounded false information about me from some biased forum members.

2.Ukrainian industrial complex produced some components only for old techs, such as BMP-2, some spare parts for helicopters engines which is were designed during soviet times and so cooperation stays since this times.
The same why Belarussian thermal sign was chosen for modernisation of T-72B, because this product is also cheape

So you consider Khrizantema an old tech? OK.

Belarusian thermal sign was chosen for modernization of T-72B and also installed on T-90SM as it has both axis stabilization, laser guidance channel for missile, LR channel and so on.

Nothing of above mentioned is included on Russian designed ancient sights (remake of Agat and Buran). And of course they are times cheaper than Byelorussian Sosna-U.

So you are either ill informed or lying.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Because payment delay from Thai side, thay actually payed only for 5 for now. They had a revolution recently also.



I ask you - show me a tank where they are installed?
And BTW thouse Agat and Irbis a just upgrades of Soviet era Agat commander sight (no HK, only vertical stab.) and Buran (no stabilization, slaved to gun).



Where can I get my salary

P.S. It will be helpful if moderators will not allow such ungrounded false information about me from some biased forum members.



So you consider Khrizantema an old tech? OK.

Belarusian thermal sign was chosen for modernization of T-72B and also installed on T-90SM as it has both axis stabilization, laser guidance channel for missile, LR channel and so on.

Nothing of above mentioned is included on Russian designed ancient sights (remake of Agat and Buran). And of course they are times cheaper than Byelorussian Sosna-U.

So you are either ill informed or lying.

what do you think of pakistan buying t84's is it possible. and do you think they would sign a TOT and co produce at HIT?

 

[Andrei_bt]

what do you think of pakistan buying t84's is it possible. and do you think they would sign a TOT and co produce at HIT?

Oplot actually is not T-84, it finished state trials in 2009.

Pakistan already has documentation for repair of their 6TD type engines and it will be completely possible they will have much more local production if this contract will happen.

 

[Bilal.]

Oplot actually is not T-84, it finished state trials in 2009.

Pakistan already has documentation for repair of their 6TD type engines and it will be completely possible they will have much more local production if this contract will happen.

Since you are quite knowledgeable I will ask the question again to be sure. Are our older T-80UD upgradable to Oplot M standard?

 

[Andrei_bt]

Since you are quite knowledgeable I will ask the question again to be sure. Are our older T-80UD upgradable to Oplot M standard?

Yes they are if they are variants with welded turret (AFAIK 90% of supplied).

There are several options for modernization including 2 options of armor modernization. From T-80UD (device 478BE) it is possible to receive an Oplot (device 478DU-9-1) as 100% equivalent.

Actually as I known the talks about modernization of T-80UD were even before the ideas to test a new tank. I can’t speak a lot, but maybe those members of this forum who are inside the situation can tell about last years visit of Pakistani delegation to Ukraine. They where very impressed by armor technology shown during firing trials.

 

[Barmaley]

Because payment delay from Thai side, thay actually payed only for 5 for now. They had a revolution recently also.

Contract was signed 4 years ago, long before any revolutions. First serial tank was released in July 2013. This is a clearly production problems.

I ask you - show me a tank where they are installed?

Those thermal signs were released in 2012, after T-72B3 was chosen with its complex. I think, further modifications of agat and irbis installed on T-14.

BTW thouse Agat and Irbis a just upgrades of Soviet era Agat commander sight

They are new development, with added thermal channels. You can claim with the same success that Leopard 2 is just upgraded version of Tiger 2.

Also, its well know fact on russian defence forums that you are working on Ukrainian state company, basically you got banned at every decent russian defence forum, such as otvaga for example.

P.S. Khrizantema isn't actually old product, but design of khrizantema started like 20 years on BMP-3 platform, so it's more likely Khrizantema (or its future version) will be based on new Kurganets-25.
P.S.S: T-90MS is a export product and Russian Mod don't have plans to buy them.

 

[Andrei_bt]

basically you got banned at every decent russian defence forum, such as otvaga for example.

I cannot be banned from forum I am not registered on, can you name another one, at leat one for example.


And so you failed to show any single Russian tank with Russian designed thermal sights... just advertisement that did not entered service. Also it is impossible to compare Russian (Soviet 1976 designed) Agat and Buran (Irbis) with modern Byelorussian Sosna and eagle eye. Also the Russian have nothing to install on Khrizantema, so they bought Ukrainian sight.

And if you read Russian industry news you could now that because of failure Armata also received foreign Byelorussian sights.

So what we have? We have Russian produced hull, remake of Kharkiv (Ukraine) designed T-64, with WW2 designed in Kharkiv (Ukraine) diesel V-2, now called V-92, and very good Belarusian sights. It is called T-90S.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

I think Checking solutions from other sources different than China is important for Pakistan. Having multiple sources or putting countries into a hard competition instead of favouring just one source always give satisfactory benefits on long term so It is either Ukraine or Turkey on any project will provide a good opportunity to reach more ToT's Pakistan requires.

Ukraine is facing Russian aggression, invasion and occupation of its territories and we need to protect our supplies by licensing and manufacturing Oplot M in Pakistan.

In 10 years, Only 450 al Khalid have been manufactured. We need to replace 1500 tanks in like 10 years. This is where foreign tanks comes in the picture

It seems that Pakistan is going slow on manufacturing/assembling JF-17 and Al-Khalid. Only 15 JF-17s and 45 Al-Khalids a year !

It would be great If Turkey and Pakistan collaborated over Altay project brother but Altay needs 1-2 years for serial production

Pakistan is manufacturing only 45 tanks a year and we need 1500+ tanks to replace. We have room for Altay and we can wait for it.

 

[Andrei_bt]

size comparisson - M60A3 and Oplot

1995 - 20 years ago

trials of T-80UD against chieniese Type-85III
and another historical video (in russian) - manafacture of T-80UD for Pakistan -

 

[Barmaley]

I cannot be banned from forum I am not registered on, can you name another one, at leat one for example.

Weren't you active poster on old otvaga forum? Weren't you banned at WoT forum?

And so you failed to show any single Russian tank with Russian designed thermal sights... just advertisement that did not entered service. Also it is impossible to compare Russian (Soviet 1976 designed) Agat and Buran (Irbis) with modern Byelorussian Sosna and eagle eye. Also the Russian have nothing to install on Khrizantema, so they bought Ukrainian sight.

I'm already show you T-14 which is new generation tank made on new components and new architecture. You can keep repeat that mantra about Soviet agat, but that's doesn't change the fact that Kranogorsky factory build new product for our MBT.

Also, ukrainian factory which is produced, but in fact just assembled from different components products now is closed.

So what we have? We have Russian produced hull, remake of Kharkiv (Ukraine) designed T-64, with WW2 designed in Kharkiv (Ukraine) diesel V-2, now called V-92, and very good Belarusian sights. It is called T-90S.

You are too fat troll or just retard.

Ukraine always was just "assembling factory" even during soviet times, all R&D were in Russia.

Also, there was information that Oplot-M using old guns from T-80 because ukraine don't produce them.
Not to mention quality of armour, as far you know Iraq refused from Ukrainian made APC due to cracks in armour of BTR-4. The same can happens with Oplot-M.

 

[Andrei_bt]

Weren't you active poster on old otvaga forum? Weren't you banned at WoT forum?

No, maybe you can give a link to any my single post there?

WOT forum, well, I can post here if remember password, but anyone already understand that you are a liar.

 

[Zarvan]

@StArk 13 Janab Please waiting for you here Sir G

 

[Vadym Kovalenko]

Okay, whatever you say. I don't think they buy and sell much to each other nowadays. If anything, Ukrainians didn't even pay for gas and were completely cut-off from transit gas just recently.

You are writing nonsense.
1) Ukraine is a transit system by itself. The only gas storage is situated on ukrainian territory near Poland border. Russia hasnt it at western direction. Ukraine is the only way for gas moving from Russia to Europe thats why Ukraine cant be cut-off.
2) Ukraine is paying for gas. The only disput in a courts is about price but not about facts of paying.
3) Both countries are selling common stuff to each other but Ukraine refused to sell military and space stuff to Russia, including parts for tanks, engines for helicopters and navy, service of AN-series planes, Зенит-3SLB, producing and service of SS-18 Satan, SS-18 mod 6 Voevoda, which are part of nuclear power of Russia