T-80 and T-85 MBTs of Pakistan along with Al Khalid and Al Zarrar

[AUSTERLITZ]

Have you seen what is inside K-5 only Russians know that....Americans and Nato also know since they got their hands onto one tank.

Not the Chinese and surely not the Pakistanis.... some people will here would argue that Chinese are close ally and however the fact is that Chinese never wanted K-5...they have switched towards using Creamic/composite tiles instead of ERA their ERA development stopped at 1st gen level with varrying thickness which they sell as export... the Pakistan ERA hers is the result of same export.

I agree on the chinese,they no longer focus on ERA,but what about the ukrainians.I think pakistan may well have got k-5 materials during t-80ud deal from ukraine.Design of the ERA looks 1st gen,but the reports of 'new' ERA indicate materials may be k-5 type.

 

[alimobin memon]

If you are willing to spread information spread the truth and not false rumors.... your behaviour is showing your frustration.

So You are telling me I am Spreading False rumors ? and u are telling the truth. Dont Accuse me again of anything others maybe lying but I don't. Keep Underestimating us its good for us...

 

[DARKY]

I agree on the chinese,they no longer focus on ERA,but what about the ukrainians.I think pakistan may well have got k-5 materials during t-80ud deal from ukraine.Design of the ERA looks 1st gen,but the reports of 'new' ERA indicate materials may be k-5 type.

1. Ukraine developed Nozh because the Russian did not give ToT on K-5.... and stopped the supply to Ukraine.

2. Anything from Ukraine comes at a price... why would Pakistani official did pay a handsome amont for K-5 when they could get more advanced Nozh... or rather why waste time on Al Khalid why not go for BM Oplot straight away.

3. I would like to see the report you are talking about here.

 

[DARKY]

So You are telling me I am Spreading False rumors ? and u are telling the truth. Dont Accuse me again of anything others maybe lying but I don't. Keep Underestimating us its good for us...

Underestimating.... why should I underestimate.... I showed for my arguments with proper proof... and explanation not some ridiculous and stupid reason that the Al Khalid has to be better since it came later than T-80UD or the ERA must be Nozh since some time back you had a deal with Ukraine... have you even seen what Nozh is like?

 

[alimobin memon]

Underestimating.... why should I underestimate.... I showed for my arguments with proper proof... and explanation not some ridiculous and stupid reason that the Al Khalid has to be better since it came later than T-80UD or the ERA must be Nozh since some time back you had a deal with Ukraine... have you even seen what Nozh is like?

In Discussion Everyone has his own points Doesn't mean U keep telling others that you are wrong and I am right. You are Over Confident that is good for you. But in Discussion Don't tell others you are lying. If My claims and proof weren't enough for you Then ignore my posts. I know I have told well enough About the working of tanks. Indeed I don't know much about latest ERA and Rounds that Ukraine or India Possess What My studies are based on Mostly are How a light, medium and Heavy tank Differentiate and Their Strategies to Survive in Battlefield. Please re read my posts If I have said that "Chinese said or Pakistan said" I have also gave Some Vital points.

 

[Keshav Murali]

Sorry I am wrong about 200mm but it was 300mm in front and just 60 in side armour. it was not 400mm as u mentioned .

Cast steel armour is poor protector, 400 mm of soft cast steel only provides around 350 mm protection when compared to RHA.

 

[Keshav Murali]

Here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...an-armys-main-battle-tanks-5.html#post4364494

I meant that I said nothing about AK transmission.

It is excellent.

So My Lovely People If Ak has Air gaped armour It is indeed good. Plus AK armour is bolted means a new armour can be bolted and older is removed that is indeed a good thing as I mentioned before it has Modular composite armor.

All composite armours have small air gaps with alternating extremely effective triple harness steel and slightly less hard composite and then RHA which has a composite plate behind it again and then RHA shell of modular space for armour.

 

[Keshav Murali]

I would recommend you to search online "Artillery effects studies" conducted by both US and Soviets. I have read the American study but cant fight the link right now. But forget the direct hit of HEAT, even HE explosion of artillery shell in close proximity of tank cause 30% damage to it. And 30% damage is more then enough to make tank ineffective/immobile. Direct hit of even HE knock-out the tank. So if you have any study where it shows that 122mm HEAT is ineffective please do share with us.

Regards

122 mm HEAT is obsolete these days sir, they will destroy gun sight and maybe machine guns but armour penetration is not possible. Tracks may get damaged, resulting in mobility kill. But K-Kill is impossible. Those studies are 30 years old and show results on tanks with steel armour or first generation composite. I've read those studies, they talk about larger rounds - 155 and 152 mm calibre. 122 mm rounds are extremely old design. Redesign now will help but won't give K-Kill still.

I don't have a full blown 30-page pdf on HEAT's ineffectiveness, but from what I know, HEAT is poor against composites, and 122 mm rounds are old design, last designs were completed in 80's. So, while I believe that the tank crew will be jolted and optics damaged, the tank will not get "ripped apart"

I cant remember I read about and Iran Iraq war That Some BLind ARtillery shells Did Disabled few Iraqi tanks And Made them out of action...

Yes, 155 mm artillery shells with sub-warheads HEAT attacking 50 mm roof armour. Blandly unimpressive.

T90 front armour :
APFSDS: 570 - 600 mm
Kontakt-5 = 820-830mm

And here our sesky Indians Claims T80UD without ERA is Around 800mm.
Looks like All the Military Books are crazy now !
@Armstrong @Rajput_Pakistani

Those are old T-90A values bhaiyya! And books aren't really accurate on present tanks

 

[Keshav Murali]

Why don't you people read some text and pdf on ERA and its categorisation.

Whatever ERA you use on Al Khalid Aorak1/2 are 1st gen ERA one is thin other is supposed to be heavy K-1 class.... no where close to 2nd gen K-5... and Nozh/Knife/duplet/triplet is 3rd gen along with Relikit and Kaktus[special armor it can be said above triplet/Relikit].

Kaktus was used on Ob'yekt 640, the tank and ERA both did not impress Soviets, importance was placed on Ob'yekt 477 "Molot" which was being developed by KMDB and Ob'yekt 195 which was being developed by Ural. Kaktus is older armour than Relikt, uses older technology and IIRC (rare) even Gur Khan (Alex Khlopotov) has stated that Relikt is better than Kaktus.

Nozh is Knife, Knife and Duplet use new ERA technology "Linear shaped charges" which make them work even better than Relikt. It is a confirmed fact, even Russians have accepted that Ukrainian ERA is superior to their own.

You just went Full retard ! Never Go Full retard... We have 0 generation ERA and you have 10th Generation ERA Got it Now sleep ...

What is this for, put him on your ignore list if you don't like his posts. Don't be this pissed, it's not good for your health.

 

[alimobin memon]

I have a question. Answer me in Few Words that Al khalid and T80 UD Can Compete with what Indian Tanks ? @DARKY @Keshav Murali

 

[Keshav Murali]

I have a question. Answer me in Few Words that Al khalid and T80 UD Can Compete with what Indian Tanks ? @DARKY @Keshav Murali

Al-Khalid = Arjun (Mostly same, Arjun Mk.I might have better protected hull and turret sides and has about 50 mm armour difference with AK on the hull slightly more on the turret, both have frontal aspect impenetrable unless at weakspots I mentioned in the other thread)

T-80UD < Arjun (Armour, suspension and electronics wise)

Al-Khalid = T-90S
T-80UD < T-90S

Al-Khalid > T-72M1 "Ajeya"
T-80UD > "Ajeya"

Hope this helped.

 

[DARKY]

T90 front armour :
APFSDS: 570 - 600 mm
Kontakt-5 = 820-830mm

And here our sesky Indians Claims T80UD without ERA is Around 800mm.
Looks like All the Military Books are crazy now !
@Armstrong @Rajput_Pakistani

I hope you get the point.... add 150mm for K-5 estimate.

 

[DARKY]

I have a question. Answer me in Few Words that Al khalid and T80 UD Can Compete with what Indian Tanks ? @DARKY @Keshav Murali

Can compete with all three Indian tanks.

 

[DARKY]

Arjun is developing into a totally different animal It would be out of the league of T-90s/T-80s once its development is done.
And would counted as one of the Better MBTs in M1A2/Leo2A6 class.

As of now It is inferior to T-90S/T-80UD.

 

[Keshav Murali]

As of now It is inferior to T-90S/T-80UD.

Nope. Only Arjun's ammunition is bad right now, they need to change it. Arjun's main sight weakspot is also a problem. I consider Arjun MK.I inferior to T-90MS but superior to T-90S. Of course, this happens only when Russians provide 3BM46 "Svinets", 3BM42M "Lekalo" or 3BM59 "Svinets-1,2" or 3BM?? "Grifel-1,2"

Russians make the autoloader upgrade but don't offer us the longer rounds