T-80 and T-85 MBTs of Pakistan along with Al Khalid and Al Zarrar

[AUSTERLITZ]

Not really... and not even the gun is same... the older gun was a modified KBA... and now replaced by an indigenous gun which is claimed to be superior...




I have reponded to you earlier yes T-80UD has the same turret as T-84.... But AKs armour is superior...

Hmm..armour protection better than oplot is a tall claim .i want u go to a forum like tanknet
AFV Forum - Tanknet
Or
Indian defence forum's land warfare armour discussion section and make this claim.I want to see where discussion goes.
These have solid armour experts .
.As for gun yeah more modern versions of t-80s guns are now available so its definietly possible,still not much difference.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hmm..armour protection better than oplot is a tall claim .i want u go to a forum like tanknet
AFV Forum - Tanknet
Or
Indian defence forum's land warfare armour discussion section and make this claim.I want to see where discussion goes.
These have solid armour experts .

It will go where last time it went when ur frnd claimed AKs frontal armour was weaker and can be screwed by even a bmp type vehicle ... later debunked.

.As for gun yeah more modern versions of t-80s guns are now available so its definietly possible,still not much difference.

Previous AK model used the latest KBA 125mm barrel ... which was replaced by an indigenous barrel... said to provide more power..

 

[alimobin memon]

Hmm..armour protection better than oplot is a tall claim .i want u go to a forum like tanknet
AFV Forum - Tanknet
Or
Indian defence forum's land warfare armour discussion section and make this claim.I want to see where discussion goes.
These have solid armour experts .
.As for gun yeah more modern versions of t-80s guns are now available so its definietly possible,still not much difference.

Forum Cannot Be ever That Accurate and Correct. Because Real Tank masters have no time to sit on forums ....

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

It will go where last time it went when ur frnd claimed AKs frontal armour was weaker and can be screwed by even a bmp type vehicle ... later debunked.



Previous AK model used the latest KBA 125mm barrel ... which was replaced by an indigenous barrel... said to provide more power..

How was it debunked?Roof armour is clearly badly weak.
Also i want u to open a thread on this claim that al khalid has superior armour than t-84 oplot on any of the 2 forums.I want to see replies.Especially polish,norweigian,german experts in those forums with extensive armour experience will have a good discussion.If your'e so sure open a thread.I'm not denying your claim nor accepting it as of now.

 

[alimobin memon]

And Why wouldn't you be sure.


Type 85 Main Battle Tank

Infact the 1st T-72 aquired by China from Iran was from Iran-Iraq war and in late 80s by the time Type 85 already had export orders and was rolling out of factories.

The Chinese abandoned the design in favour of a new one when they saw it was Already much inferior to monkey models of T-72 like asad babli and lion of bagdad tanks.

Lion of babylon ? Are u Nuts or something ? IT had no more than 200mm of frontal armour. Without era Type 85 III has almost 400mm of armour plus Era is greater than 550mm it is indeed a potent tank against lion of babylon and even Any T72 ...

How was it debunked?Roof armour is clearly badly weak.
Also i want u to open a thread on this claim that al khalid has superior armour than t-84 oplot on any of the 2 forums.I want to see replies.Especially polish,norweigian,german experts in those forums with extensive armour experience will have a good discussion.If your'e so sure open a thread.I'm not denying your claim nor accepting it as of now.

Those Experts u say ? They havent even touched the AK. I remember The So Called Western Experts claiming that CHina will never have stealth Technology before 2020 were slept by chinese in 2011 when J20 was leaked. So dude U cant claim anything until it is war provened.

 

[DARKY]

Sorry Dude the ammunition of both the tanks is same and AK is greater Muzzle Velocity. The RPM for UD may have been greater but Now All AK are to be AK 1 standard with 8-9 rpm for main gun.

The Tank Protection Level Sight Has not Idea about the Armour of Al Khalid The weight of both the tanks is same and AK armour is classified for your Kind information And Whether u admit or not Ak is Our best tank today in Pakistan army Ask any one from pakistan army you want to. Furthermore This is not 2005 this si 13 where all Ak are getting and extensive upgrade As AK 1 with complete new armour. Janes is not the best Source i call it 3rd party source. They estimate according to their expertise. Ak of Pakistan army Does not Have 600 mm armour and the ~700mm I quote was for Original AK now AK 1 IS complete a new Tank With new Armour and FCS and Main gun is even newer. Maybe the one that HIT developed. Furthermore the t80 UD has Front Armour of 800mm to 840mm Indeed there is no gun in Asia that can penetrate that much armour but if t80 UD has this exact internet claimed armour that Mind that Ak Must have Atleast that. Because T80 UD is indeed good but in pakistan army AK is considered to be more safe to drive...

If you dont want to agree with me dont ask me again. Because you guys ask than Say no u are wrong I have no time to argue . Regardz

You talk like a school boy.

You have no idea bout some how your assumption that Al Khalid is better than T-80UD rests on the fact that Al Khalid was introduced later [like JF-17 introduced later than F-16 makes J-17 better and you might bring in some PAF official claiming such in whatever regard.]

I gave you armor thickness data from fofanov.... do you even know the name since you are alredy being the expert here.

I did not go on Al Khalid armor... In the past several times I have prooved that its armor module has a hallow gap which appears to be as big as 200-300mm hence the actual module has to above 1meter If it has to compare with T-80UD...which is not the case.

ZTZ99 armor module and its compositions similar but little smaller module is used on Type 90II/Al Khalid/MBT2000/MBT3000.

The huge gap is used for bolting the armor in place.... you can see the bolts here.

Try to conter argue using valid points.... It gets boring whith PA said this and Chinese said that.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Forum Cannot Be ever That Accurate and Correct. Because Real Tank masters have no time to sit on forums ....

They are experts,associated with armour projects or former/current soldiers from germany/poland/norway.Not amateurs and the level of discussion and the data will prove it.In IDF they spared no one not even arjun fanboys.

So i want desert fighter since he is so sure of his claim to go either to land forces forumsection of IDF or to tanknet and make the claim of al khalid armour better than t-84 turret armour.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

How was it debunked?Roof armour is clearly badly weak.

And you know tht coz of?

P.S= I also posted several pics of AORAK ERA on AKs roof aswell... posting info how it was armoured all over and how its armour has been able to defeat all rounds..

Also i want u to open a thread on this claim that al khalid has superior armour than t-84 oplot on any of the 2 forums.I want to see replies.Especially polish,norweigian,german experts in those forums with extensive armour experience will have a good discussion.If your'e so sure open a thread.I'm not denying your claim nor accepting it as of now.

Just like ur info from those forums where they claimed tht including no armour or era on AKs roof,or inferior suspension and so on were debunked... also how many of those so called "Experts" have even seen an AK in real life?.... operating one is a distant dream though.. again most of their "info" comes from pictures and speculations...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

And you know tht coz of?

P.S= I also posted several pics of AORAK ERA on AKs roof aswell... posting info how it was armoured all over and how its armour has been able to defeat all rounds..


Just like ur info from those forums where they claimed tht including no armour or era on AKs roof,or inferior suspension and so on were debunked... also how many of those so called "Experts" have even seen an AK in real life?.... operating one is a distant dream though.. again most of their "info" comes from pictures and speculations...

I didn't see anyone claiming inferior suspension,Also anyone can put ERA on top won't increase ur very weak base armour on roof which is design flaw.Keshav posted a pic.ERA won't help against tandem warhead or good apfsds when base armour is weak.
Again u want to make these claims i want u go to IDF or tanknet and do it.Shouldn't be a problem since ur so sure.I'm only amateur.And truth is so are u.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Again posting a pic of AKs armoured roof:

Note: Its a basic AK ... not the upgraded AK-I with newer armour...

I didn't see anyone claiming inferior suspension,Also anyone can put ERA on top won't increase ur very weak base armour on roof which is design flaw.Keshav posted a pic.ERA won't help against tandem warhead or good apfsds when base armour is weak.

Actually he did ... see his original post in tht thread and the so called "flaws" tht he mentioned..... as for weak base armour can you tell us how you can recognise tht by just looking at a picture?

Again u want to make these claims i want u go to IDF or tanknet and do it.Shouldn't be a problem since ur so sure.I'm only amateur.And truth is so are u.

I have been to IDF and believe me it was a sickening experience.. as for tanknet... ur and keshavs info comes from tht forum? why dont u invite them here?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Again missing the point,a light era tile won't make the underlying weak base armour stronger.Anyone can add ERA tiles.Still this was a point of contention between u and keshav,for u between me it was actually zarrar and ajeya.Where ur 1400 zarrars actually turned out to be no more than 500-600.

 

[farhan_9909]

Al khalid design wise is as good as T-80ud.

the only part it lack is the turret.the turret indeed has some design drawbacks.which again can be solved to a certain extent with the latest aorak mk2 era which is similar to the ukrainian duplet knife

but we need to replace the Turret or redesigned it similar to the oplot

or rather struck a deal with ukraine for the license manufacturing of Oplot or may be the cancelled yatagan Turret.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Again posting a pic of AKs armoured roof:

Note: Its a basic AK ... not the upgraded AK-I with newer armour...




Actually he did ... see his original post in tht thread and the so called "flaws" tht he mentioned..... as for weak base armour can you tell us how you can recognise tht by just looking at a picture?


I have been to IDF and believe me it was a sickening experience.. as for tanknet... ur and keshavs info comes from tht forum? why dont u invite them here?

Just go to the land warfare section,and call out lidsky and damian.Both non indian members .Whats so sickening about it and make the claim that ak turret ramour better than t-84.Otherwise both of us with limited understanding playing half blind here.
And no tanknet isn't where our info comes from.I mysself am less knowledgable by far than him,i gather from all sources including fofanov.gur khan.IDf.tanknet etc.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Again missing the point,a light era tile won't make the underlying weak base armour stronger.Anyone can add ERA tiles.Still this was a point of contention between u and keshav,for u between me it was actually zarrar and ajeya.Where ur 1400 zarrars actually turned out to be no more than 500-600.

Again lighter newer generation ERA tiles dont make em inferior to fat old generation era used by other countries... second do enlighten us how you can recognise an armours thickness by just looking at a picture?

Just go to the land warfare section,and call out lidsky and damian.Both non indian members .Whats so sickening about it and make the claim that ak turret ramour better than t-84.Otherwise both of us with limited understanding playing half blind here.
And no tanknet isn't where our info comes from.I mysself am less knowledgable by far than him,i gather from all sources including fofanov.gur khan.IDf.tanknet etc.

So ur running out of arguements and pointing at others?

 

[farhan_9909]

Ak and t-80ud both use naiza series APFSDS

Ak1 really has very thickened side skirts.the side skirts issue is resolved in the ak1 but i dont know why they didnt resolved the turret.

Somehow i think the AK1 we saw in feb 2010 was not a completed mass produced Ak1.but rather still in development.

Ak and t-80ud both use naiza series APFSDS

Ak1 really has very thickened side skirts.the side skirts issue is resolved in the ak1 but i dont know why they didnt resolved the turret.

Somehow i think the AK1 we saw in feb 2010 was not a completed mass produced Ak1.but rather still in development.