T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[Silahtar]

Temel Kotil was asked a question, "When will we be able to see the image of the T629 helicopter?" And he replied, "It will make its first flight end of this year, then you can see it."

Also, as far as I understand from his speeches, the T629 helicopter will be an enlarged and nationalized version of the T129 helicopter. Most likely it will be this helicopter, I've shared before:

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I don't get it, from the start of this project, TAI and SSB were both saying that it was an attack heli with the transmission and the engine of T-625. If it was an armed version of the T-625 instead, they would've said that it was an armed version of the Gokbey just like how it happened with the Hurkus-C. From the start, they've been saying that it was a more advanced and heavier version of the Atak heli and you could actually see that both the T-629 and the 12 ton attack helis have very different designs. So, in a summary, the T-629 is definitely an attack heli and not an armed version of Gokbey instead.

T-129:

T-129 phase 2

T-629

12 ton Heavy Class Attack Heli

But what we should really discuss is the numbers. How many of these and the 12 ton attack helis will be produced for both the KKK and the DzKK in total?
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Bu arada, dinlerken yakaladım, Temel Kotil cümle içinde TS-1400'ü 1600 bg gücünde olduğunu söyledi 33:48 den itibaren dinleyin. Ayrıca Ağır sinif helide ilk olarak dışarıdan alınan motorlar kullanılacakmış...

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53 bro, do you have any information about T629 Gunship?

I always said T-629 will be ITAR-free 6t Atak helicopter using T-625 Gökbey transmission, rotor and engines because that is the most logical way of revealing a competitive helicopter family in different variations. The names may have some difrerences but I still insist There will be an ITAR free Atak Although Temel Kotil formed complicated sentences in his last C4 reportage again. I believe TAI realised that Integrating TS-1400 to T-129 Atak helicopters will take time (~2 years) and won't serve its purpose on export markets because What was lost has already been lost at present. TAI has already pushed the limits of T-129 Atak with Phase-2 variant (No place for Mildar) so T-129 can not be enhanced more than what Phase-2 is able to provide so TAI found solution to develop a ITAR-free, more modern small brother of heavy class Atak-2 based on Gökbey that will strenghten the hand of TAI in light attack helicopter market. This new helicopter will be a new step to correct bigger variant heavy class attack helicopter and They called this small brother as T-629. In reportage, Kotil said such a thing. I am going to type speeches one by one !

• (Atak-2 Ağır sınıf)Tabi şimdi iyi gidiyor. Şuanda onun ön tasarımlarını yapıyoruz. Bir mock-up (Ağır sınıf) yapmıştık mock-up'ı düzelttik. Daha iyi mock-up oldu. Mock-up önemliydi aslında. Onun bir doğrulama uçuşu olarak bir helikopter üzerinde çalışıyoruz. Daha özgün yani Atak helikopteri biliyorsunuz lisans altında yapılıyordu. Yani bizim olan, aranan bir helikopter uçuşunu inşallah bu sene içerisinde yaparız. 5 yıl da (Atak-2) söz vermiştik. 1 yılımız geçti...
• T-629'un görselini ne zaman görebileceğiz? Onu yıl sonuna doğru bir uçuralım o zaman görebileceğiz zaten.
• Gökbey özgün bir helikopter. Onun bir silahlı versiyonu geliyor inşallah. Ondan sonra Atak, Pardon, büyük abisi Atak-2 geliyor.

In this aspect, T-629 will be the ITAR-free variant of T-129 Atak. In addition, Gökbey will also have an armed variant.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

In this aspect, T-629 will be the ITAR-free variant of T-129 Atak. In addition, Gökbey will also have an armed variant.

I think instead of arming the T-625, we should put them air-refueling probes and make a special forces variant like the Sikorsky HH-60 Pave Hawk. If I remember correctly, back then the Airforce wanted to buy a couple of them but the Americans rejected it. It would be very useful in the hands of the Coast Guard and the Navy too. So, if there's a demand for such an heli, why not develop one then?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Man, I think you are doing this on purpose, the picture you shared as T 629 belongs to Atak 2. Both pictures belong to Atak 2, T629 still has no picture, all the models you share are Atak 2, not T629. Why are you still resisting?

 

[cabatli_53]

October 2017: İsmail Demir stated that "TAI will develop a six ton attack helicopter using the same powertrain, gearbox and rotors with T-625."

October 2019: Temel Kotil announced that "it was being designed a six-ton attack helicopter that would fill the gap between the five-ton T129 ATAK and the upcoming 10-ton ATAK II Heavy Strike helicopter, and its name was identified as T629."

April 2020: Temel Kotil stated that "We are working on an helicopter that will be more indigenous than Atak helicopters. You know T-129 Ataks were being produced under the licence of Italy. I mean The helicopter that will be solely ours will make its maiden flight in this year."

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Man, I think you are doing this on purpose, the picture you shared as T 629 belongs to Atak 2. Both pictures belong to Atak 2, T629 still has no picture, all the models you share are Atak 2, not T629. Why are you still resisting?

If you're quoting me; no, I did not resist, I just shared my opinion but it looks like you're the one who's resisting instead...
Take a good look at the design of the Heavy Class.

Then take a look at the design of the T-629

As you can see, the 12 ton H.C.Attack heli has an wider and more angular shaped body. It also has an 30 mm canon + wider sensor payload and a 3rd weapon station at the edges of its wings. The Heavy class is almost the double size of the T-629. I agree that they look similar but they are completely different at the same time.

October 2017: İsmail Demir stated that "TAI will develop a six ton attack helicopter using the same powertrain, gearbox and rotors with T-625."

October 2019: Temel Kotil announced that "it was being designed a six-ton attack helicopter that would fill the gap between the five-ton T129 ATAK and the upcoming 10-ton ATAK II Heavy Strike helicopter, and its name was identified as T629."

April 2020: Temel Kotil stated that "We are working on an helicopter that will be more indigenous than Atak helicopters. You know T-129 Ataks were being produced under the licence of Italy. I mean The helicopter that will be solely ours will make its maiden flight in this year."

• (Atak-2 Ağır sınıf)Tabi şimdi iyi gidiyor. Şuanda onun ön tasarımlarını yapıyoruz. Bir mock-up (Ağır sınıf) yapmıştık mock-up'ı düzelttik. Daha iyi mock-up oldu. Mock-up önemliydi aslında. Onun bir doğrulama uçuşu olarak bir helikopter üzerinde çalışıyoruz. Daha özgün yani Atak helikopteri biliyorsunuz lisans altında yapılıyordu. Yani bizim olan, aranan bir helikopter uçuşunu inşallah bu sene içerisinde yaparız. 5 yıl da (Atak-2) söz vermiştik. 1 yılımız geçti...
• T-629'un görselini ne zaman görebileceğiz? Onu yıl sonuna doğru bir uçuralım o zaman görebileceğiz zaten.
• Gökbey özgün bir helikopter. Onun bir silahlı versiyonu geliyor inşallah. Ondan sonra Atak, Pardon, büyük abisi Atak-2 geliyor.

Look at the timeline. From the start of this project, TAI and SSB were both saying that it was an attack heli with the transmission and engine of T-625. If they were developing an armed version of the T-625, instead of giving it a new name, they would've just shared it already. If they were just arming the T-625 for all of these times, they wouldn't say that it was just using the transmission and the engine of the T-625 from the start.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

If you're quoting me; no, I did not resist, I just shared my opinion but it looks like you're the one who's resisting instead...
Take a good look at the design of the Heavy Class.

Then take a look at the design of the T-629

As you can see, the 12 ton H.C.Attack heli has an wider and more angular shaped body. It also has an 30 mm canon and wider sensor payload and a 3rd weapon station at the edges of its wings. The Heavy class is almost the double size of the T-629. I agree that they look similar but they are completely different at the same time.





Look at the timeline. From the start of this project, TAI and SSB were both saying that it was an attack heli with the transmission and engine of T-625. If they were developing an armed version of the T-625, instead of giving it a new name, they would've just shared it already. If they were just arming the T-625 for all of these times, they wouldn't say that it was just using the transmission and the engine of the T-625 from the start.

Can you show the difference between these 2 pictures you shared? You shared 2 Atak 2 and called one T629.

This picture hasn't official image, just a funmade.

You don't share ideas, you give wrong information.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Can you show the difference between these 2 pictures you shared?

Then read my previous reply properly.

This picture hasn't official image, just a funmade.

I know, I shared it because it showed the side of the T-629.

Think about your attitude again. We are showing you the timeline and the differences between the T-629 and the Heavy Class but you insist that both pictures belong to the Heavy Class. Answer me, if they were just developing an armed version of the Gökbey, why would they say from the start that the T-629 just has the transmission and the engine of the Gökbey? They just could've stated that it was an armed Gökbey instead if that was the case.
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Ahh be Temel Kotil, biraz daha düzgün bir açıklama yapsaydın olmaz mıydı; bizim medya da beceriksiz zaten, herkes birbirine düşüyor sonra. Yok Göksungur turbofan motorlu olacakmışmış ama saatte 380 yapakmışmış herşey birbirine bulandı ya. Bizim medya da önce kuşla ihayı karıştırdı, şimdi de helikopteri karıştırdı.

 

[cabatli_53]

If we take the size of gimbals +/- same in both platform, Try to compare Gimbal Size/Fuselage Coverage ratio to make an assumption. The current render used in TAI's page was in there when the program was 7/8 ton class and It was never changed when the program evolved into 10/12t class.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Then read my previous reply properly.

I know, I shared it because it showed the side of the T-629.

Think about your attitude again. We are showing you the timeline and the differences between the T-629 and the Heavy Class but you insist that both pictures belong to the Heavy Class. Answer me, if they were just developing an armed version of the Gökbey, why would they say from the start that the T-629 just has the transmission and the engine of the Gökbey? They just could've stated that it was an armed Gökbey instead if that was the case.
--------
Ahh be Temel Kotil, biraz daha düzgün bir açıklama yapsaydın olmaz mıydı; bizim medya da beceriksiz zaten, herkes birbirine düşüyor sonra. Yok Göksungur turbofan motorlu olacakmışmış ama saatte 380 yapakmışmış herşey birbirine bulandı ya. Bizim medya da önce kuşla ihayı karıştırdı, şimdi de helikopteri karıştırdı.

Ahahah Look at those who said read me my article again, did I say something about what they did with the armed version of the T625? I know T629 is a T625 based T129, but this does not legitimate you to share irrelevant images.

If we take the size of gimbals +/- same in both platform, Try to compare Gimbal Size/Fuselage Coverage ratio to make an assumption. The current render used in TAI's page was in there when the program was 7/8 ton class and It was never changed when the program evolved into 10/12t class.

View attachment 625997

2 The photograph has the same details, only the perspectives are different and the black one has a motor filter. All media outlets including the Anadolu Agency shared this as Atak 2, I still can't understand your insistence.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Ahahah Look at those who said read me my article again, did I say something about what they did with the armed version of the T625? I know T629 is a T625 based T129, but this does not legitimate you to share irrelevant images.




2 The photograph has the same details, only the perspectives are different and the black one has a motor filter. All media outlets including the Anadolu Agency shared this as Atak 2, I still can't understand your insistence.

You know I can claim the same shit for you too? Be a man instead of acting like a teenager. I wrote all of that stuff with a respect towards you instead of calling every other idea shit except your own like how you're behaving.
Wtf do you know then, is it proven that the T-629 is an armed Gökbey? Then why are you shitting my opinions here you troll. All we discuss is justs speculations and nothing more. Wth do you know then? You couldn't walk past me in the real life but of course it's easier to shitting others opinions in here. Either Be an adult and talk this stuff in respect towards your opponent or get the f@ck outta here

 

[cabatli_53]

Ahahah Look at those who said read me my article again, did I say something about what they did with the armed version of the T625? I know T629 is a T625 based T129, but this does not legitimate you to share irrelevant images.




2 The photograph has the same details, only the perspectives are different and the black one has a motor filter. All media outlets including the Anadolu Agency shared this as Atak 2, I still can't understand your insistence.

This render was under design phase when the program was called as more adcanced Atak with an idea of developing 6t attack helicopter based on T-129 Atak in 2016/2017 and A new program called “new type attack helicopter” appeared and It was stated that It will be a 7/8t class helicopter with a name of Atak-2 in TAI page and It was the first time we saw this image in there but Later, The name of program was called as Heavy class attack helicopter by TAI when the MTOW reached the 10t but the image remained the same. When they found a new name (T-629) to advanced Atak, Atak-2 name was transfered to Heavy class attack helicopter. If you check the intro video of Atak-2, you will see just use of heavy class in there. In this aspect, T-629 can not be one by one same with this image but I believe It will share many similarities with this render.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Calm Down Bro's

You can't be make a Heavy class Attack Helicopter froö T-625 class helicopter.

Yes there is three project on tai ;

1- Armed Gökbey like battlehawk also I'm waiting a asuw version.

2- İtar Free T-129 Atak Version

3- Heavy Class Attack Helicopter.

Name of 10-12 tonnes attack helicopter is heavy class attack helicopter. İtar free atak name is atak-2 . Armed gökbey big probaply use t-629 codeage. But generally diffrent version of same platforms cannot use diffret codeing. Like Hürkuş-C maybe t-629 is the another nameing for atak-2.

Heavy Class is our armies needing, on the other hand we must be make itar free T-129. Just because begeining the t-129 project we modifiying the platform like yamalı bohça due for our lack of attack helo.

But now Atak is a Export product. And have a high potentional. But he have still problems. avionic systems, lwr, chaf , flare systems not burried in hull, flir position is wrong and have black zones, there is no space for mwm radar, they dont have enough 20 mm ammo , also he have foreign engine and transmission, 20mm gun and landing gears.

Last time when I visit the tai, they say we are localize the landing gears. Only left transmission and engine and cannon. Also if you want a make a add to atak a new engine, cannon diffrent flir position, diffrent wing sensor complex, and add a out wing mwm radar and burried avionics you must be change all of the design.

So for that reason Tai maked a one design and specialieze him for 30 mm more powered engine for this reason heavy class and atak-2 look similar.

Due my idea Atak-2 will be real export succesor , it will be second most performanced helicopter but it will be most succesfull chopper.

 

[cabatli_53]

Calm Down Bro's

You can't be make a Heavy class Attack Helicopter froö T-625 class helicopter.

Yes there is three project on tai ;

1- Armed Gökbey like battlehawk also I'm waiting a asuw version.

2- İtar Free T-129 Atak Version

3- Heavy Class Attack Helicopter.

Name of 10-12 tonnes attack helicopter is heavy class attack helicopter. İtar free atak name is atak-2 . Armed gökbey big probaply use t-629 codeage. But generally diffrent version of same platforms cannot use diffret codeing. Like Hürkuş-C maybe t-629 is the another nameing for atak-2.

Heavy Class is our armies needing, on the other hand we must be make itar free T-129. Just because begeining the t-129 project we modifiying the platform like yamalı bohça due for our lack of attack helo.

But now Atak is a Export product. And have a high potentional. But he have still problems. avionic systems, lwr, chaf , flare systems not burried in hull, flir position is wrong and have black zones, there is no space for mwm radar, they dont have enough 20 mm ammo , also he have foreign engine and transmission, 20mm gun and landing gears.

Last time when I visit the tai, they say we are localize the landing gears. Only left transmission and engine and cannon. Also if you want a make a add to atak a new engine, cannon diffrent flir position, diffrent wing sensor complex, and add a out wing mwm radar and burried avionics you must be change all of the design.

So for that reason Tai maked a one design and specialieze him for 30 mm more powered engine for this reason heavy class and atak-2 look similar.

Due my idea Atak-2 will be real export succesor , it will be second most performanced helicopter but it will be most succesfull chopper.

That is also around possibility. There is one thing for sure, We will see three armed helicopter platform that will be totally indigenous.

• Armed Gökbey
• 6t ITAR-free Atak (based on Atak body and T-625 powertrain)
• 10/12t Heavy class attack helicoptet

In this aspect, The names given to these platforms cause some confusion. Until a certain time, TAI officials used the name of “Heavy class attack helicopter” for 10t program and The Intro video was also prepared accordingly but In last months, TAI officials, especially Temel KOTIL started calling Atak-2 for Heavy class, while introducing the T-629 with this sentence “a new attack helicopter that will fill the gap between 5t Atak and 10t Atak-2 Heavy class” (October 2019). It is likely that He may mix the names again because TAI in general never used Atak-2 for heavy class until He said it. That is what the news archieves tell to us.