Syrian forces fire at 2nd Turkish plane - Turkey

[Zulkarneyn]

Syria should support the PKK from now on, if Turkey continues to terrorize Syria....

Are you syrious?

 

[Hello_10]

You already did that. Now it is time for consequences.

Btw, if someone enters your airspace with your permission, then why the fvck would you warn them?

look, you keep talking here and no one gives you a cent . and about Syria, they just shot down one plane and your second one, could hardly survive. while we have clear news that turkish government officials are arming Syrian terrorists, backed by US and funded by other arab countries. so from now onward, either you would make a statement when Turkey will have taken a strike or just dont make others laugh on you. as, we are waiting for the news when 3rd plane will either survive or not, within just 1-2 days, as it may again go to close to Syrian border, we know this. you get the point?

now, talk high only when Turkey may do something credible, other than begging to NATO for "Threatened Security" and then British assurance to Turkey for "Robust Response" in UNSC ..........

Ankara has invoked Article 4 of Nato's charter, under which consultations can be requested when an ally feels their security is threatened, officials say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18568207

 

[tesla]

Syria should support the PKK from now on, if Turkey continues to terrorize Syria....

sen türk müsün la kimin ülkesini kime tehdit ediyon yarrak kafa pkk ya çok siktirdin götünü herhalde duyduğuma göre geceyi esadın evinde geçirmişsin götünün kalkış hızı f-16 da yok bakıyorum f-16 gibi olan gotunu otomobile ceviririm, yarramin antifiriziii
hiç mi saygı yok lan şehidlerimize o suriye dediğin yıllarca pkk yı ve fehman huseyini kullandi damarini siktigimin veledi.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

arkadaslar onceden bu erdogana sovdum bana tepki koydunuz , simdi sovecem yine sinir etti beni bu

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Stop taking the higher ground here.The fact of the matter is that intrusions happen every now and then even now.Many are technical in nature.The air forces of both the countries have learned how to live with it.If you are talking about the intrusion post 26/11 then know that it was a "gambit" operation.A single Mig-29 entered Pakistani air space (Not a fleet of Su-30MKI as being told by Pakistanis here) to test the preparedness of the enemy.

clearly our side was prepared

BTW India violated Pakistani airspace with impunity many a times.We operated a fleet of high altitude reconnaissance Mig-25s .Flying at 80,000ft they were beyond the range of any Pakistani missile or jets .Indian pilots would sometimes break the sound barrier just before entering India to tease the Pakistanis.From the Mid 80s onwards hundreds of Mig-25 flights were undertaken and none were brought down.We don't need these jets now since we have got powerful satellites.

i think Pattankot and Kalaikunda raid conducted by PAF were an even better ''tease''....wreacked havoc on entire squadrons

actually it was more like foreplay....

Be informed that if the PAF dares put India's air defenses to the test the results would be catastrophic for the PAF.If you think that you are alert then so are we.

sure sure, and the same to you as well....

PAF since time immemorial has done a great job to remind indians that Pakistani skies would never be friendly to the enemy....in fact for that reason the whole nation looks up to them.

I grew up not far from PAF Base Peshawar and it was always a pleasure seeing the Mirages taxing on the adjacent runway. While nation sleeps, they are always awake and ready.

Syria should support the PKK from now on, if Turkey continues to terrorize Syria....

?????

Turk musun

 

[revojam]

Are you syrious?

Why suprised? Aren't you just another guy like him who put his religion over his nationality? Didn't you said one week ago "First is my religion second is my nation" ? Thats why Jihadists are another internal threat alongside with Kurdish Seperatists for this nation.Just like Kurdish Seperatists Jihadists too to relaize their sick "Islamic State" dream will help to fall this republic.Remember germany born jihadist Turk tried to bomb Turkish ISAF soldiers in afghanistan? Would a nationalist do something like that ? NO only jihadists and PKK member would try to kill their own states' soldiers.We don't call your kind traitor because you disagree with our view of management , we do it because we know very well consequence of putting religion over nation.Even though i know answer very well i always want to ask you this question : If Turkey one day become untouchable superpower and state would decide to eliminate all islamic nations would you stay loyal to state till the very end or would you support oppositon and try to break your own county? I think both of us know the answer very well right? That example was too much i lets say one or another reason we become enemy with Iran and atacked them alongside with Israel now where you would put your loyalty? We don't need people who put their religion before their nation , in the end they will become another radical terror organization and bomb their own citizens in the name of allah , we already seen this game many times.Thats why your kind will be seen as another interal threat as long as this republic alive.

 

[Worf]

Syria should support the PKK from now on, if Turkey continues to terrorize Syria....

Syria has been for the past 30 years...

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Why suprised? Aren't you just another guy like him who put his religion over his nationality? Didn't you said one week ago "First is my religion second is my nation" ? Thats why Jihadists are another internal threat alongside with Kurdish Seperatists for this nation.Just like Kurdish Seperatists Jihadists too to relaize their sick "Islamic State" dream will help to fall this republic.Remember germany born jihadist Turk tried to bomb Turkish ISAF soldiers in afghanistan? Would a nationalist do something like that ? NO only jihadists and PKK member would try to kill their own states' soldiers.We don't call your kind traitor because you disagree with our view of management , we do it because we know very well consequence of putting religion over nation.Even though i know answer very well i always want to ask you this question : If Turkey one day become untouchable superpower and state would decide to eliminate all islamic nations would you stay loyal to state till the very end or would you support oppositon and try to break your own county? I think both of us know the answer very well right? That example was too much i lets say one or another reason we become enemy with Iran and atacked them alongside with Israel now where you would put your loyalty? We don't need people who put their religion before their nation , in the end they will become another radical terror organization and bomb their own citizens in the name of allah , we already seen this game many times.Thats why your kind will be seen as another interal threat as long as this republic alive.

Stopped reading at the bold part

You can't hide your hatred for Muslims even at a national matter as this. People like you are despicable. Remember you ignorant faggot, this country is still Muslim

 

[amidamaru]

syria and turkey were supposed to be working together in search of the pilots... so why was the plane shot at??

how could they not have permission?? when it was said by syria itself that they allowing turkish navy etc in its waters to search for pilots... it a joint venture...

syria now (if this report is true) has confirmed its hostile actions... its begging for war... obviously has russia and chinas backing in this

 

[Targon]

Zulkarneyn, whats wrong with that ? "Islamist" is not equal to "Muslim".

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Zulkarneyn, whats wrong with that ? "Islamist" is not equal to "Muslim".

He is obviously calling muslims "jihadists" including me. So stop your bs boy

 

[lem34]

I do hope Turkey does not get involved with conflict in Syria I read this last year and have just put it on another thread:

Lawrence Freeman from the Executive Intelligence Review magazine [xii]has stated that

“President Obama is acting on a British geopolitical plan to force a confrontation with Russia and China, a military confrontation of which Syrian and Iran would nearly be the ignition point. But the real goal is a war to stop the progress that Russia and China are engulfed in” .


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...pak-russia-china-iran-cars.html#ixzz1yvBDWCsh

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

btw ganga - it was 2 Migs; not one...both intercepted

syria and turkey were supposed to be working together in search of the pilots... so why was the plane shot at??

how could they not have permission?? when it was said by syria itself that they allowing turkish navy etc in its waters to search for pilots... it a joint venture...

syria now (if this report is true) has confirmed its hostile actions... its begging for war... obviously has russia and chinas backing in this

Turkish coast guards located the wreckage...it was 2000 feet below sea level; the pilots are yet to be recovered

bless their families; i hope there is a chance for good news

 

[Hasbara Buster]

‘Turkey threat, retaliation useless against Syria’

Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the country’s downed military jet had violated the Syrian airspace for a short time and "by mistake."

Syria on Friday said a Turkish fighter jet, an F-4 Phantom, was downed in Syrian territorial waters, west of the village of Om al-Tuyour in Lattakia Province, 10 kilometers from the beach.

The Syrian military stressed that it had engaged the jet in the Syrian airspace “according to the laws that govern such situations.”

Erdogan said that his government would retaliate against Damascus over the downing of the jet by the Syrian army, changing the rules of engagement and branding its former ally as "a clear and imminent threat."

Press TV has conducted an interview with Tahsin al-Halabi, political analyst, to further discuss the issue. The following is a rough transcription of the interview.

Press TV: First, let’s discuss the issue now concerning Turkey. There’s been a shift in the Turkish Prime Minister’s stance towards Syria, meaning that now it is viewing Damascus, he says, as a threat. How serious do you think this is going to get?

Al-Halabi: I think that what Erdogan declared is all that he can do along with his government against Syria because it is a baseless threat and it will be, nevertheless, not available even to be implemented against Syria because Syria would not violate any borders with Turkey and would not violate any international law with all its neighbors.

It is just a threat that would justify or would like to make a certain intention against Syria, politically, as a theoretical retaliation of what Syria did to defend its airspace and its territory against the violations of the air force of Turkey.

I think Turkey would lose a lot of factors from such a hostility against Syria because Syria, although it has only 25 million population comparing with Turkey with about 80 million, but Syria can be and continue to be stronger in defending its territories, and it will have no kind of enmity or hostility against Turkey.

Erdogan knew very well that [based on the opinion of] the Turkish people in the last poll [which] took place in Turkey a few weeks ago, most of the population of Turkey agree that the leadership of Syria and the people of Syria are a friendly people and a friendly leadership to the Turkish people; and they wouldn’t accept all the policies that Erdogan is trying to conduct for the sake of the NATO and the Western interests against such an Arab neighbor to Turkey.

As you see, Turkey made a lot of violations against the Iraqi territories when it launched certain air raids against the PKK inside Iraqi territories. Nevertheless, Erdogan didn’t even apologize to the Iraqi people and the Iraqi leadership for such actions against Iraq. Now, he is trying to just make manipulations.

Press TV: Right now Mr. Erdogan is saying that there is no excuse for Syria to shoot down the warplane, and it’s seeing this as a hostile act from Syria. It’s asking NATO for support and NATO has said it is going to support Ankara in this case.

Do you think that this is going to lead to an escalation? Are we going to see an escalation or a new stage in Turkey’s actions against Syria? Could this lead to some kind of military attack, military intervention, so to speak?

Al-Halabi: Eventually I don’t expect that Turkey would make more escalations against Syria. It is enough that Turkey has given refuge for those military groups on its territory against Syria and other refugees in order to invest them against the Syrian people and the Syrian leadership.

I think this is the ceiling of the power of Turkey that can use against Syria, just threats because Turkey knew very well that Syria also has allies in the region not only internationally, even in the region here like the Islamic Republic of Iran -- it is the main ally to Syria.

The Syrian cause is just when it will be discussed internationally or regionally against Turkey. Syria didn’t make any aggression against Turkey so the threat of Erdogan would be useless when he would say that he will retaliate against any violation on the boundaries of Turkey. He’s the one that made certain violations against other neighbors.

I think no more escalations unless he would declare more propaganda against Syria. But on the ground, on the spot he wouldn’t be daring to do anything because he knew that he has a lot of problems inside Turkey itself and he doesn’t need more problems to be widened and intensified inside Turkey.

PressTV - ?Turkey threat, retaliation useless against Syria?


Comment: Western thugs and their lapdogs are trying everything they can to justify a NATO attack against Syria. The same process as against Libya.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Gulf of Tonkin redux? Prelude to waging war on Syria?

Lyndon Johnson wanted war on Vietnam and got it. The August 1964 false flag Gulf of Tonkin incident initiated full-scale conflict after Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.


War was authorized without declaring it.

It's an American tradition. Big lies launch wars. Manufactured pretexts initiate them. Mass killing and destruction follow.

One nation after another is ravaged. Syria's next, then Iran. Expect other states on Washington's hit list to follow.

On June 22, two Turkish warplanes provocatively entered Syrian airspace low and fast. Perhaps they were testing its defense systems or probing for other reactions.

Doing so showed hostile intent. It wanted a response and got it.

Ankara's directly involved in Washington's war on Syria. It's arming insurgents. It provides safe havens.

On June 23, Syria's SANA state media headlined "Military Spokesman: Anti-Air Defenses Intercepted a Target That Violated Syrian Airspace Over Territorial Waters, Shot It Down West of Lattakia," saying, "At 11:40 AM on 22/6/2012, an unidentified aerial target violated Syrian airspace, coming from the west at a very low altitude and at high speed over territorial waters, so the Syrian anti-air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery, hitting it directly as it was 1 kilometer away from land, causing it to crash into Syrian territorial waters west of Om al-Tuyour village in Lattakia province, 10 kilometers from the beach."

Syria's military spokesman also said naval forces from both countries were "searching for the two missing pilots."

On June 23, Turkey's Today's Zaman headlined "Turkey says Syria down(ed) its air force jet," saying, the incident will "likely....worsen already strained relations between" both countries.

After a two hour security meeting, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan blamed Syrian forces for downing its aircraft. An official statement said, "Following the evaluation of data provided by our related institutions and the findings of the joint search and rescue efforts with Syria, it is understood that our plane was downed by Syria."

Turkey "will determinedly take necessary steps" in response. No further details were given.

Ankara said it wouldn't "tolerate any action that it deemed violating its security."

Turkish TV reports said two military aircraft were on a reconnaissance mission.

In fact, Ankara acted provocatively. Likely it was at the behest of Washington. Turkey is a NATO member. It can invoke NATO Charter Articles 4 or 5.

Article 4 calls for members to "consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence, or security of any" is threatened.

Article 5 considers an armed attack (real or otherwise) against one or more members, an attack against all, and calls for collective self-defense.

On June 23, Reuters headlined "Turkey warns it would respond decisively to Syria downing it aircraft," saying, Erdogan's "initial comments and subsequent statement (were) measured in tone. He said Turkish and Syrian forces were working together to search for the two missing crew of the aircraft."

Turkish media also said Syria has apologized for the incident.

"Turkish state television interviewed witnesses on the country's Mediterranean coast, near the Syrian border, who said they saw two low-flying fighter jets pass overhead in the morning in the direction of Syrian waters but only one return."

Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said, "There was no aggression." Damascus confirmed "an unidentified target flying at very low range when it violated Syrian airspace." He added that both sides were searching for missing crew members.

The New York Times said an official Turkish statement hadn't "yet concluded that the Syrian action was provocative, and it acknowledged that Syrian rescue teams were cooperating in trying to locate the aircraft and crew."

"But the statement also left open the possibility that Turkey, a NATO member, would respond militarily, an outcome that could further complicate and widen the Syrian conflict."

Washington has longstanding regime change plans. In early 2011, it orchestrated Western-generated violence.

It wants Assad replaced by a subservient puppet leader. If events on the ground don't succeed, expect war to follow.

Obama and Erdogan likely staged Friday's incident. Whether it's a pretext for full-scale intervention remains unknown.

Events on the ground keep escalating dangerously. Anything may erupt anytime. Provocations are easy to stage.

Friday's incident may indeed become a casus belli for full-scale intervention. If not, perhaps something greater is planned to let Obama ravage another country. What better way to silence his Republican critics who call him soft on Assad.

Interviewed on TRT Haber television, Foreign Minister Ahmed Davutoglu claimed Turkish aircraft briefly entered Syrian airspace "but not during the time it was shot down."

"During the entire operation conducted by the downed jet, Syria made no attempt to contact Turkish authorities by any means."

"We will, without any hesitation, decisively take the necessary steps regarding the Turkish plane downed by Syria. No country can show the courage to test Turkey's patience."

On June 24, Turkey's Hurriyet daily said "wreckage of a Turkish jet shot down by Syria (was found) in Syrian waters....Turkish news channels reported (it) on Sunday, without citing a source."

On June 24, Reuters headlined the truth in a two paragraph report, saying:

"Wreckage of downed Turkish jet found in Syrian waters: TV."
"Search teams have located the wreckage of a Turkish fighter jet shot down by Syria on Friday in Syrian waters at a depth of 1,300 meters, Turkish news channels reported on Sunday, without citing a source."

Mossad-connected DEBKAfile (DF) featured the same information, saying:

"Turkish TV: downed plane wreckage found in Syrian waters."

Haaretz and UK-based ITV News also reported what The New York Times, Washington Post, and most other Western media sources buried. So did CNN saying:

"Turkish search-and-rescue teams found the wreckage of the fighter jet in the Mediterranean Sea on Sunday, about 1,300 meters (4,260 feet) underwater...."

Omitted was saying the aircraft was found in Syrian waters. Other major US media also suppressed what most needs explaining.

Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said Turkish planes flew at an altitude of 100 meters. Anti-aircraft fire, nor radar-guided missiles, downed one. Unauthorized entering Syria's airspace "clear(ly) breach(es its) sovereignty.”

He added that Damascus seeks friendly relations with Ankara. It'll respond in kind to any positive overtures.

On June 24, the UK government controlled BBC sent mixed messages. On the one hand, it reported high-level British and US condemnations.

Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague called Syria's act "outrageous." He stressed "how far beyond accepted behavior the Syrian regime has put itself."


Hillary Clinton "condemn(ed) this brazen and unacceptable act....It is yet another reflection of the Syrian authorities' callous disregard for international norms, human life, and peace and security."

Ten paragraphs into its online report, BBC also said, "The Turkish foreign ministry said it knew the coordinates of the jet, which was in Syrian territorial waters at a depth of 1,300m (4,265ft)..."

At the same time, it quoted Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu saying, "According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles (24km) from Syria."

Territorial waters extend 12 nautical miles from coastlines.

Downed aircraft, at depths of 4,265 feet at the bottom of the Mediterranean, don't move on their own one nautical mile (6,076 feet) in a matter of hours.

BBC highlighted his comments. It noted the truth on three lines buried well into a detailed report. It featured misinformation, not truth and full disclosure.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul said its aircraft may have violated Syrian airspace. Doing so isn't unusual for short distances at high speed, he added.

"It is routine for jet fighters to sometimes fly in and out over (other) borders....when you consider their speed over the sea," he claimed.

"These are not ill-intentioned things but happen beyond control due to the jets' speed."

Unexplained was that it's one thing for peaceful neighbors occasionally to violate each other's airspace without authorization.

No harm, no foul.

It's quite another given months of intense violence in Syria and Turkey's direct role.

Moreover, violating another country's airspace by trying to avoid its defensive capabilities at low altitude shows clear hostile intent.

Damascus has every right to consider these type actions aggressive and threatening. Turkey would react the same way. So would Washington, key NATO partners and Israel.

A virtual state of war exists in Syria short of officially declaring it. These type incidents can easily be used as pretexts for full-blown conflict. It remains to be seen if Washington has that in mind.

PressTV - Gulf of Tonkin redux? Prelude to waging war on Syria?