Swords and Shields: F-35 beats Russians

[nitesh]

moscow can you please post some info on new gen ammunitions that are getting developed for PAK-FA please

 

[Shiny Capstar]

don;t put such statements. You remember the days when space exploration started. Both US and Russia (Then Soviet Union) were in deli ma that how the astronauts will use ink pens without gravity (Gravity makes the ink to flow downwards so that you can write). Us has invested more then 1.5 million dollars to invent Gel pen for there use.

You know what Russia (Then Soviet Union). They used pencil.


Some times you need to think practically rather then spending money only.

PS: Gel Pen is a good invention. I am just giving an example.

Urban legend.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

I dont Think so, PAK FA is good but F22 is the Best !

The Su-35 vs. the F-22? Well for one these aircraft are built with two different purposes in mind.

If one looks at the Su-35/37 they notice forward canards. Something that only the americans are not incorporating into their new fighters. The reason for this is forward canards speak to manuverability in a pinch. This boils down to dogfighting. In the hands of pilots of equal skill, the Su's have the advantage in a dogfight.

However dogfights account for only 1 out of 10 aerial victories. The rest being attained in BVR (beyond vidual range) combat. This is what the F-22 was designed for.

You see we've all seen movies like "Top Gun" and "Iron Eagle" and when we think of a missile being fired we think "Break Right!" Well against short range missiles that works. Against longer range missiles such as the AMRAAM this doesn't work. When one fires an AMRAAM at you that's flying mach-4/5 you don't try to break right. Its got plenty of time to compensate, and you don't wait for it to get close then dodge, its moving to fast. What you do is go into erratic manuvers forcing the missile to use up fuel and speed to keep up. The goal being to either cause it to burn up its fuel, or lose so much speed matching your manuvers that you can dodge it.

The F-22 was designed with this purpose in mind. Get so close you can't escape the missiles, fire them, then leave. Dogfighting only as a last resort.

In BVR combat the F-22 has a clear advantage. Also keep in mind AIM-120 are more effective from an F-22, why? Despite what you see in the movies in most air to air combat the fighters stay close to the ground to stay out of the view of surface to air missiles. The stealth F-22 does not, and its high altitude and supercruising speed adds range and speed to the missiles.

There is no doubt in my mind the F-22 is capable of scoring a 10-1 ratio on the Su-35 based purely on the merits of the plane. However combat is much more complicated than this. Those fighting the F-22 will try to avoid engaging it unless they are over their home territory with SAM's, and multiple radars to help them. The americans will send F-35's and F/A-18's on Wild Weasel to degrade this capability. The determinant factor in the battle of Su-35 vs. F-22 is distance. From long range I don't think even the Su-35 could escape such a close missile launch. In a close range fight, both have thrust vectoring, and the Su has canards. However one thing often overlooked in the craft's manuverability is weight. Russian aircraft are big, mean, and heavy. American aircraft are lighter making them easier to move.

I think the Su-35 would likely retain the manuverability advantage which could give a skilled enough pilot an edge, but its getting that close that's the key. A favorite American tactic is "the grinder" where aircraft go high, launch AIM-120, then spiral downward presenting a confusing radar image. From here they retreat reform, and come back. A Su-35 would have to dodge the AIM-120's, then kick in his afterburners to catch the supercruising F-22 before it reforms. This leads to a short combat time.

For russian aircraft fighting the F-22 will depend on its ability to do the following. Find the F-22's avoid their missiles, close the distance, force them into a dogfight, and shoot them down before the Su or Mig "bingo's" on fuel. If a Su can force an F-22 into a dogfight he has a chance, without it, I don't like his odds.

As far as PAKFA vs. F-22, this is like comparing F-22 to F-35 JSF, aircraft designed on different parameters. A better comparison is the PAKFA versus the F-35 in which case unless the F-35 pilot is of much higher quality the PAKFA wins. Thanks to congressional penny-pinching the Air Force has been forced to dump more and more tasks on the F-35. This leads to compromise and to many have been made.

The F-35's better wait until the F-22's clean the skies out for them.

On Practical Note F35 or F22 wont have to compete the PAK FA ( in our skies ) , as neither of our neithbours will get it. And the Planes it will have to counter its far above all of them.

Canards compromise stealth, that is why the F22 doesn't have them.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

sir

i think Russian will go great guns in defense research and development in near future as Mr Putin last yr gave a 200 billion defense budget which will be way higher in reality.
and development has triggered very high in nuclear submarines and mobile ICBMs field. i think with American going down in economy and Russian going up- the battle will be interesting in future.

The Russian economy is suffering more than the US's. The finicial crises is hitting them hard and the low price of oil means they will have to rein in defence spending.

 

[Moscow]

moscow can you please post some info on new gen ammunitions that are getting developed for PAK-FA please

the new missiles for pakfa



Russia's new-generation PAK FA fighter — being developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau — will have not only feature a new airframe, radar, avionics and engines. It also will be equipped with new-generation weapons that are being evolved in two parallel paths: the continued modernization of existing missiles with stepped improvement of their capabilities; and the design of next-generation weapons.
GosMKB Vympel, Russia's leading air-to-air missile design bureau, is busy evolving a full spectrum of missiles for the PAK FA, ranging from short-range weapons to long-range variants. In 2010, Vympel expects to complete its development of the short-range Izdeliye 760 missile — which is a significantly modernized version of the R-73 weapon, outfitted with an inertial flight control system and course correction receiver, improved rocket engine and with new multi-mode infrared seeker. The Izdeliye 760 is expected to be a close counterpart to the Western-built ASRAAM and Sidewinder AIM-9X missiles.
Three years later, the new-generation K-MD short range missile (also to be designated the Izdeliye 300) is to be operational. When compared to Izdeliye 760, the new missile will have longer range and will be capable of being launched from any direction; it will be also more resistant to jamming. The K-MD will be fitted with a new imaging infrared seeker enabling identification of target according to memorized images. The seeker's lock-on range will be two times greater than the seeker for the Izdeliye 760 missile. A new adaptive warhead will be introduced, and the missile's control will be performed with aerodynamic surfaces, as well as a thrust-vector engine nozzle.
Russia's most modern medium-range air-to-air missile is the R-77 (Izdeliye 170) and its export derivative RVV-AE (Izdeliye 190). A phased modernization of this weapon, designated the K-77-1 (Izdeliye 170-1), is now being tested. In addition, the K-77M (Izdeliye 180) missile is currently under development as a second step in the R-77's modernization. The most visible change in the Izdeliye 180's external appearance compared to the R-77/RVV-AE is replacement of its latticework fins by more common flat aerodynamic control planes. This reduces aerodynamic drag and cuts down on the radar cross-section. The missile will be fitted with a modernized active radar seeker and new double pulse solid-propellant engine. Its maximum range will be 2-3.5 times more than the Izdeliye 170 (R-77) missile, depending on the launch altitude. The Izdeliye 180 is expected to be better than the AMRAAM AIM-120C7 missile, and equal to its successor versions, with a service-ready date targeted for 2010.
A future medium-range air-to-air missile as a follow-on to the Izdeliye 180 also is in development, but no additional information has yet to be released about this weapon.
Russia is the only country developing ultra-long range air-to-air missiles able of reach targets at distances of up to 400 km. Two such missiles are competing to be a basic weapon on the PAK FA fighter: the Izdeliye 172 (K-100) from Novator, and the Izdeliye 810 from Vympel.
All air-to-air weapons on the PAK FA (including the largest Izdeliye 172 missile) are designed to be carried in the aircraft's internal weapons bay. To allow these weapons to be deployed from the internal bay, Vympel is designing two types of ejection release units capable of carrying 300 kg and 700 kg loads
The PAK FA also is expected to carry its basic complement of air-to-ground weapons internally. These include the modernized Kh-58Ush long-range anti-radiation missile, the newly-developed Kh-36 short-range anti-radiation missile, the new short-range electro-optical Kh-38 missile, as well as the UAB-250 and KAB-500M guided bombs. Heavier weapon types will be carried on the aircraft's external pylons.



thanx

 

[Neo]

In a recent Article in IEEE Nov. Edition , The estimate of F35 Programme was $1 Trillian , this amount is way above any country can invest in such programme , .

$1 trillion...? For that kind of money US can build Starship Enterprize!
What site is that?

 

[bernard]

^ making stealth is not magic,
russians got a taste of it when a us f117 was shot down
but usa on other night bombed that area to the fullest doing their best
they even advanced their stealth designs and even dumped f117
so to have an edge and that russians are not able to counter them,they invested so hugely on new f22,f35
russian pakfa is tailored to counter all aspects of f22, even new weapons ,radar,engineavionics and other equipments are designed for it
but russians will lag a bit in stealth,meaning that f22 will be a bit stealthier.
forget upon the looks of f22,best stealth design is what cant be seen at all

 

[bernard]

$1 trillion...? For that kind of money US can build Starship Enterprize!
What site is that?

not more than 250bn$