Switchover from US to Russia-China orbit?

[FuturePAF]

Pakistan isn't getting any access to European markets. You already know that. Of course this is mainly due to Pakistan’s own stupidity and lack of ability. You guys never invested in education and the well-being of your own people. When the vast majority of Pakistanis cannot read, write and haven't even learnt a skill what market do you expect to capture? In Pakistan quality education is expensive and beyond ordinary people. In other words, an apartheid education system. Your government and leaders don't even care about educating the masses. You want to capture markets... You can only capture markets if you have something to offer. Unfortunately Pakistan doesn't have much on offer. A country already low on natural resources doesn't also have any skilled people. How and with what do you intend to capture European markets?

So you’re saying the elite might as well go all in with China?

Being in the Western block has left Pakistan bankrupt and its people poor. Only China has made meaningful contribution to Pakistan in all fields. Unfortunately the world has turned into gang warfare and if you are not a member of a gang or you are member of a weak gang you will get demolished.

It’s true they expect you to side with their gang against the other gang, but if you have a product that is valuable on the world market at competitive pieces, you can still trade and try to stay out of most disputes.

What India wants is for the dichotomy to look so black and white. Pakistan in the China block so that India can look like it’s like it’s in the US block without actually doing much.

Pakistan needs to find a way to operate in the grey, for at least the next 20 years, when India’s demographic divided runs out, the way China’s demographic dividend has run out and investors are looking for other destinations for their capital.

 

[-=virus=-]

strategic autonomy best hai

sbse bana k rakho decent relations

try hedge your risks as best you can

never be super pro or anti anything, let the dust settle, and then make your move

ssk, strategic sanu ki ?

 

[nahtanbob]

Especially the global south, which India wanted to present itself as the leader of.

The only thing is the bar is set low. If Pakistan can get its act together it doesn’t need to go into any formal alliances, just become more geo-political relevant as its economic heft and social-cultural institutions grows. Switching over to any one block will piss off the other power and shut Pakistan out of economic opportunities. Best to reform internally and apprise itself of all opportunities from all sides.

That would be fine if someone followed the policy from day one. Or even from Nov 2023. It is easier to follow the policy if you are not indebted to the ceiling to foreigners.

 

[Dalit]

So you’re saying the elite might as well go all in with China?

China is willing to help Pakistan in every way possible. The Europeans won't. Pakistan should count itself lucky it has an ally like China. The Western world was ready to destroy Pakistan not so long ago.

 

[nahtanbob]

I have been saying that for over a decade, lol, TRIPC alliance (Turkey, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and China) is the way forward for regional peace and prosperity. If India can break the historical colonial chains and the "colonial battered woman" syndrome then it would be in India's interest to join too.

You want to speak for Pakistan. I understand. Why do you want to speak for India ?

 

[FuturePAF]

That would be fine if someone followed the policy from day one. Or even from Nov 2023. It is easier to follow the policy if you are not indebted to the ceiling to foreigners.

Tax structure can be changed to raise more capital from the current elite, but it’s a sacrifice they have to be made to comply with if there is any hope to not become an Argentina, no room to maneuver.

China is willing to help Pakistan in every way possible. The Europeans won't. Pakistan should count itself lucky it has an ally like China. The Western world was ready to destroy Pakistan not so long ago.

That’s true, Pakistanis lucky to have a partner (ally in all but name) like China. But even China wants the Pakistani elite to shape up and increase exports to the west to repay their debts.

 

[nahtanbob]

Tax structure can be changed to raise more capital from the current elite, but it’s a sacrifice they have to be made to comply with if there is any hope to not become an Argentina, no room to maneuver.

You should know better the chances of that happening

 

[Dalit]

But even China wants the Pakistani elite to shape up and increase exports to the west to repay their debts.

I suppose this is an assumption on your part. Nevertheless Pakistan is lucky with an ally like China. China helps Pakistan in many fields. From defence to economy. That is the definition of a good ally.

 

[aziqbal]

the Western nations have taken their masks off

its no secret anymore

the nations should turn to China and Russia full stop

Russia has beat then militarily and China have beat then through economics

so what exactly has the West got going for it ? because they lead the World in these two assets and now they have neither

 

[khansaheeb]

You want to speak for Pakistan. I understand. Why do you want to speak for India ?

Just one view, not speaking for anyone.

 

[TNT]

Dumb article giving too much importance to itself. Gateway to south asia? Seriously? These notions of self importance been ingrained into common Pakistanis have made this country the way it is. You are so important, so strategic, all the world is after u, you r security state, 5th gen 6th gen warfare, ghazwa e hind, bla bla BS. This mentality destroyed us, ppl need to wake up and face reality.
Giving suggestions like Pakistan "should" join this and that is just useless and dumb when u r a banana republic and basically a puppet state.

 

[TNT]

India broke them long back. Thats how, India doesn’t believe in joining a camp but maintaining an independent policy making. That’s been displayed amply in the recent past. Anyone claiming otherwise is either a troll or blind. Even, IK was all praises for it and wanted his brethren to learn from the neighbour.

Paksiatn has a lot to learn from this. It has always been in one camp and subservient to someone. It was under complete US control till some time back. Now China is the big daddy. Paksiatn can’t say one word against the current daddy of the day. China has Pakiatn’s balls in it’s firm grip. One twist and the economy has only one way to go. I wouldn’t even mention total reliance of all major military hardware.

The alliance TRIPC is unlikely to be an alliance of nations with equal standing but an alliance under the leadership and control of China. China would play the big daddy, while others would do it’s bidding.

I agree with u about Pakistan but not china. Its infact the US that wants a relationship where they will be the boss and u all just obey. Obey their rules and laws and currency. For eg china never objects to its closest ally buying US and European weapons and why should one? Unless the relationship is not based on equality. The US have been bossing the whole world, sending military and changing govts. China on the other hand is way better, look at china from others' perspective.
Indian policy no doubt have been the best, remaining neutral and carving its own relations. But this seems to be eroding and main reason is extremist tendencies in india, both nationalistic and religious. India's power was its secular and liberal approach, encorporating all religions and casts, having its own policy and independent relations. Now it seems india is going too far in chinese hatred, pushing itself into a camp, coupled with religious extremism and an image that india is no more liberal and open. Hatred for Pakistan didnt affect india much because Pakistan is insignificant but china isnt. This all will weaken india. Though i feel in future, india may patchup with china and become good allies.

 

[FuturePAF]

I suppose this is an assumption on your part. Nevertheless Pakistan is lucky with an ally like China. China helps Pakistan in many fields. From defence to economy. That is the definition of a good ally.

The goal of CPEC was to increase pakistan’s productivity, and use that increase in efficiency to increase exports and jump start national development.

I acknowledge China is the best ally Pakistan has had, probably since its entire existence, but internal political differences and mismanagement/corruption, since independence, have hindered actualizing the potential without antagonizing the west. The internal differences have come to the point that top talent is fleeing in large numbers and the cost of course correction will be significant, even on the wealth and well connected.

China ready to boost Pakistan ties but urges security guarantee

China is willing to strengthen co-operation and promote solidarity with Pakistan but has urged it to guarantee the safety of Chinese organisations and personnel working there, China's foreign ministry said, quoting President Xi Jinping.

www.reuters.com

 

[nahtanbob]

For starters Putin has made more trips to Israel (three) than Pakistan (0). Try getting a state visit from Putin

Russia and China co-operation is predicated on the perception mutual threat from the West. If there is no threat there is no co-operation.

Pakistan is not interested in tying itself to China

 

[ProudThamizhan]

LOL Isn't it funny how you Indians discriminate against your own? You guys live and breathe caste system. You don't even understand the irony of the name stupid Hindutva. You are a disgrace.

what is wrong with discrimination? if there is no discrimination people will have to treat normal people and wannabe low class milechas like you the same ! That would be horrible. Caste system is what is saving the world and in fact that is what is enabling people like you to live.