Swedish Gotland sunk American nuclear powered submarines!

[Super Falcon]

what does gurantee we have that german did not leased sub to americans to know how to blow U 214 and pass this to israel and india we all know how good u 214 are this AIP tech we already have in our agosta 90 and i think american anti sub role is dumb recently chinese song class sub gave heart attck too USS kitty hawk AC

 

[Myth_buster_1]

what does gurantee we have that german did not leased sub to americans to know how to blow U 214 and pass this to israel and india we all know how good u 214 are this AIP tech we already have in our agosta 90 and i think american anti sub role is dumb recently chinese song class sub gave heart attck too USS kitty hawk AC

and why the heck would they wanna destroy their multi billion dollar industry?

 

[Righteous_Fire]

and why the heck would they wanna destroy their multi billion dollar industry?

maybe he's referring to the fact that like in the falklands war, france gave the tech readouts of their exocets and super etendarts to the Brits! after the Brits suffered losses from the Exocets. But after France gave them the said tech readouts or whatever, the Brits effectively removed this threat and didnt suffer a single loss.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387576/How-France-helped-us-win-Falklands-war-by-John-Nott.html

 

[Righteous_Fire]

Here's a good read and probably the end result after that video:

U.S., Swedish Navies Sign Agreement to Bilaterally Train on State-of-the-Art Sub

U.S., Swedish Navies Sign Agreement to Bilaterally Train on State-of-the-Art Sub[/CENTER]​

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NORFOLK, Va. (NNS) -- The U.S. Navy and the Swedish navy signed a Memorandum of Understanding March 21 that will begin a bilateral training effort, providing a Swedish advanced diesel submarine and crew for U.S. Navy fleet anti-submarine warfare (ASW) training.

The partnership will focus on ASW system test and evaluation, as well as the combined development of naval capabilities.

“Recent establishment of the Fleet ASW Command in San Diego, Calif., combined with the planned deployment of a state-of-the-art Swedish diesel sub and crew to the West Coast, provides our forces innovative opportunities to train during combined exercises,” said U.S. Fleet Forces Command Director of Readiness and Training, Rear Adm. Don Bullard.

The Swedish navy will provide an advanced diesel submarine, a Gotland-class air independent propulsion (AIP) submarine, for the U.S. Navy’s long-term use. ASW training will be conducted from San Diego and attached to Submarine Squadron 11. The Swedish submarine will be Swedish-flagged, commanded, manned and operated. U.S. Navy personnel will be aboard the Swedish submarine as riders and observers for training purposes.

The mission of this training effort is to conduct focused and integrated ASW training and assessment of the U.S. Navy’s fleet ASW operations, tactics and doctrine, and ASW education.

The U.S.-Swedish effort will focus on acoustic analysis performance of fleet operators aboard all ASW platforms; theater, carrier/expeditionary strike group, unit-level ship, aviation squadron and submarine levels ASW performance assessments against standardized, common metrics; individual student ASW training and qualifications; and overall theater undersea warfare capability.

“This U.S.-Swedish effort will demonstrate the further development of international interoperability between the two nations,” said Inspector of the Royal Swedish Navy, Rear Adm. Jörgen Ericsson.

Nations around the globe continue to acquire quiet and lethal submarines designed to operate in littoral regions and the open ocean. With advanced developments in weaponry and propulsion, the nature of ASW has changed, increasing the risks to operations at sea.

Control of littoral environments is essential to ensuring prompt access for joint forces moving ashore from the sea. Future ASW effectiveness in this critical area demands a dedicated focus on sensors, operational doctrine, and fleet ASW training. Through U.S. and Swedish efforts, both navies are meeting this challenge head on, and preparing for the future.

“This will vastly improve our capability to conduct realistic, effective antisubmarine warfare training that is so critical to the Navy’s ability to accomplish our mission,” said Bullard. “It also expands our efforts in developing coalition ASW tactics, techniques and procedures. This is a great opportunity for both navies, and we are very excited about it."

This bilateral effort is a great example of the U.S. and Swedish navies’ commitment to ensure that our naval service and those of our allies and partners retain operational primacy at sea.​

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So put simply guys:

The Gotland type subs are a big danger. That is why they are getting the attention from across the Atlantic.​

 

[Myth_buster_1]

maybe he's referring to the fact that like in the falklands war, france gave the tech readouts of their exocets and super etendarts to the Brits! after the Brits suffered losses from the Exocets. But after France gave them the said tech readouts or whatever, the Brits effectively removed this threat and didnt suffer a single loss.

How France helped us win Falklands war, by John Nott - Telegraph

Ya but India is not like UK to European countires.. dont know why pakistanis say anything pakistan buys from europe ends up with technology shared with india..

 

[Super Falcon]

well i think us naval subs are major hole in their naval weapon systemm

 

[xsi33]

I know this is a very late reply to a thread that is probably forgotten, but I could not resist commenting.
I have been working with Submarine design for over 16 years with submarines of three countries and have quite an insight to german designs as well. The Gotland even though it is older than 212 and 214 is still superior. It is stealthier and more lethal than the two german designs. Using a a-magnetic material for the hull is not really an advantage. It makes the hull more brittle and cannot absorb shocks (i.e from depth charges) as good as a magnetic steel hull. The issues with a magnetic hull can be fully compensated with a good degaussing system.
Gotland class submarines have been in duel situations with both nuclear and non-nuclear submarines and have come out on top every time. It is not surprising that the US wanted to lease a Swedish submarine as they are probably fully aware what their NATO fellow countries' submarines are capable of. That said I do believe the 212 is quite capable.

 

[Penguin]

Hello gentlemen,

The diesels rule the oceans.

Coastal areas, more likely, where conditions favor SSK over SSN, which is more of an open ocean boat. Note that Australia is seeking fleetsub of about double the displacement of Type 212A. Note Japan operates only fleet-boats of similar size.

n 2004, the Swedish government received a request from the United States of America to lease Gotland – Swedish-flagged, commanded and manned, for a duration one year for use in anti-submarine warfare exercises. The Swedish government granted this request in October 2004, with both navies signing a memorandum of understanding on 21 March 2005.[1][2]
Gotland was loaded on board the Norwegian semi-submersible heavy-lift ship, MV Eide Transporter, on 10 May 2005, for a month-long voyage over the Atlantic Ocean and through the Panama Canal to Naval Base Point Loma in San Diego, California, where it arrived on 27 June 2005.[3][4][5] After a couple weeks of getting accustomed to the new environment, the exercises with United States 3rd Fleet began on 18 July 2005.[6] The lease was extended for another 12 months in 2006.[7][8][9]
Gotland managed to penetrate the defensive measures of Carrier Strike Group Seven undetected and snap several pictures of the USS Ronald Reagan during the December pre-deployment Joint Task Force Exercise 06-2 (JTFEX 06-2) in the Pacific Ocean (probably in the California Operating Areas), effectively "sinking" the aircraft carrier.[10] The exercise was conducted to evaluate the effectiveness of the US Fleet against modern diesel-electric submarines, which some have noted as severely lacking.[11][12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSwMS_Gotland_(1995)

This is nothing new. Dutch Walrus subs already did this (below) during similar excersizes in the 1990s, and a carrier screen tends to include SSN.

23 Feb - 2 Mar 1999: Walrus (2) participates, among other NATO navies and the Brazilian navy, in the exercise JTFEX / TMDI99.

JTFEX / TMDI99 stands for Joint Task Force Exercise / Theatre Missile Defence Initiative 1999. The exercise is held in the Caribbean and on the US main land and has 27000 participants, of which 15000 naval participants. This exercise is the biggest gathering of forces since the Gulf-war, is held from 1 Feb to 4 Mar 1999.

During this exercise the Walrus (2) penetrates the US screen and 'sinks' many ships, including the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T-shirt. Other ships that are sunk by the Walrus (2) during this exercise are: USS Boise SSN-764, Ro?m DDG-70, R? DDG-61, Ville De Quebec FFH/FFG-332, Stephen W. Grooves FFG-29, Holstein F-216, Vella Gulf CG-55, Mount Whitney LCC-20.

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_walrus2.htm

Dutch sub 'sinks' another carrier
Sep 1999 During exercise JTFEX / TMDI99 (early 1999) the Dutch Walrus (2) 'sunk' the US aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, the submarine launched two attacks and managed to sneak away.

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/news/news_1999.htm

Aircraft carrier USS America (CV 66) photographed by the Tijgerhaai (2), Oct 1993 Mediterranean. (Photo: © Collection J.J. Kragten).
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/pictures/pictures_periscope_shots.htm
(expected) 4 Oct - 3 Nov 1993: Tijgerhaai (2) operates in the Mediterranean.
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_tijgerhaai2.htm

 

[haviZsultan]

I did not know this. This enhances my knowledge though my interest in the tools of war is limited at best.

 

[ejaz007]

The problem faced by USN is not a new one. They have been aware of this threat for quite some times. Here is an old link I found:

Diesel-Electric Submarines, the U.S. Navy

 

[ashok321]

meaning a good AIP sub can stay submerged on the sea bed almost undetected

Which nation's submarine -conventional or nuclear powered - has done that so far?

Just think, is it possible technically?

I am not talking about 20 feet research submarine here though.

 

[Penguin]

Which nation's submarine -conventional or nuclear powered - has done that so far?

Just think, is it possible technically?

I am not talking about 20 feet research submarine here though.

"stay submerged on the sea bed " ... oh, turn a sub into a smart seamine .....

 

[xsi33]

There are navies that has been doing this for many years. On a side note: generally speaking an SSK is much quieter than any nuclear propelled submarine, mainly due to that an SSN's and other nuclear subs' cooling system has to be running all the time, to cool the reactor. There are of course other factors as well - such design and construction philosophy, but that goes for different SSKs as well.

 

[500]

Problem of diesel subs that they are slow and have little range. When they use AIP their speed is no more than 4-5 knots. So they wont be able to catch up even a trade ship.

 

[Penguin]

Problem of diesel subs that they are slow and have little range. When they use AIP their speed is no more than 4-5 knots. So they wont be able to catch up even a trade ship.

An SSN has advantage of high transit speed, compared to SSK. So, similar to a superior fighter, it can choose to brake of and leave an engagement. But, .... at high speed, sonar performance is much degraded, leaving the boat essentially near blind (applies to surface ships too).

It is balony AIP equipped boats are limited to 4-5 knot speeds.
E.g. Singapore's Archer AIP equipped class: "The AIP system offers vibration-free and silent operation, while extending the submerged endurance from days to weeks. The propulsion system provides a surfaced speed of 8kt and submerged speed of 15kt. "
Archer Class Submarines - Naval Technology
E.g. Japan's Soryu class
"Soryu is powered by a diesel-electric propulsion system. Two Kawasaki 12V 25/25 SB-type diesel engines and four Kawasaki Kockums V4-275R Stirling engines provide a total power output of 2,900kW surfaced and 6,000kW submerged. Soryu is the first submarine of the JMSDF to be equipped with Stirling engines manufactured by Sweden-based Kockums. Stirling is a silent and vibration-free external combustion engine. The Kockums Stirling air independent propulsion system onboard reduces the need for frequent battery charging surfaced and thus increases the submerged endurance of the submarine. The propulsion system provides a maximum speed of 20kt."
SS Soryu Class Submarines - Naval Technology