Swedish Awacs in focus again after PAF used it against India

[Jugger]

Modi and bjp are religious extremists aren’t they ?

No, not at the moment.
But there is always a possibility.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...sed-it-against-india/articleshow/68590492.cms

Swedish Awacs in focus again after PAF used it against India

Sources said that India had registered a diplomatic protest with Sweden after the Pakistan revealed that it had ordered three new Saab 2000 early warning aircraft in 2017.

By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Updated: M

Incidentally, three of the Saab 2000 `Erieye’ early warning aircraft were badly damaged in a terror attack on the Minhas air base in 2012, with one of them being destroyed beyond any scope of repair.

NEW DELHI: India had registered a diplomatic protest over the sale of Swedish early warning aircraft to Pakistan and had objected strongly to the transfer of South African long range bombs, both of which were used to target military installations in India after the Balakotterror camp strike last month.

Besides F 16 fighter jets – subsidised by the US for the war on terror – Pakistan used these two critical systems to target an Indian brigade headquarter and other installations in Nowshera on February 27, government sources said, adding that it is time to consider how to deal with defence manufacturers supplying such equipment to the neighbouring country. Sources said that India had registered a diplomatic protest with Sweden after the Pakistani air force revealed that it had ordered three new Saab 2000 early warning aircraft in 2017. These aircraft, which supplemented an earlier order of four by Pakistan, were extensively used in the February 27 aerial battle to direct and control 25 fighter jets towards Indian targets.


Incidentally, three of the Saab 2000 `Erieye’ early warning aircraft were badly damaged in a terror attack on the Minhas air base in 2012, with one of them being destroyed beyond any scope of repair. The 2017 order was placed to replace the destroyed aircraft and to bring up the total number of Pakistani Swedish origin air warning systems to six.



The active participation of these aircraft in the air skirmish gave Pakistan an extensive view of the battlefield and Indian air deployment that enabled it to direct fighters to the target zone. While India operates the IL76 `Phalcon’ AWACS as well as the Embraer `Netra’ early warning aircraft, they are outnumbered by the Pakistani air force.

The other equipment used by Pakistan on February 27 were the South African origin H 4 Stand off Weapons (SOWs) – glide bombs with a range of over 100 km that were fired at Indian military installations. Sources said that in 2003, India had registered a strong protest to South Africa against the transfer of these weapons by weapons manufacturer Denel. Though not as accurate as the SPICE 2000 munitions used by India to target the terror training camp at Balakot, the H 4 SOWs have a longer range and are now believed to be produced in Pakistan.


While India had already brought up the issue of misuse of F 16 fighter jets with the US, officials said that it is time to rethink how to deal with companies who are supplying military equipment to Pakistan and want to do business with the Indian military as well. “It is time for India to use its economic strength to deter such things happening in the future,” government sources said. Swedish company Saab for example is contesting for a multi-billion dollar deal to supply 110 new fighter jets to India and was a competitor in a major deal for short range anti-aircraft missiles to the armed forces. Denel had gone to great lengths to get off an Indian corruption blacklist last year by waiving off almost $ 100 million that it would have been entitled to following arbitration proceedings. Formal orders to take Denel off the blacklist were issued in September after a request was made from the top leadership to move forward from the corruption taint and enable it to participate in upcoming Make in India military programmes.

So let's get this straight; india is 7x bigger than Pakistan, has access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege, india has the full backing of the West and Russia yet is still crying to the Swedes for why they got a beating by Pakistan..... The indians are crying to the Swedes for not protecting them against Pakistan..............................You just couldn't make this up even if you tried........

 

[Jinn Baba]

Each su 30 was a mini awecs per Indians lol

We made fun of Indians, but they proved that all MKIs do is act as airborne radars

 

[Vortex]

Messages quoted for a summary of the discussion with @Jugger

I am not calling for war. I am calling for pressurizing India to leave aggression and become our partner in peace. When the entire world was focused, we should have demanded iron clad guarantees for peace. What they have done is total capitulation to foreign demands, giving India ample room to continue aggression. This is weak leadership and poor statesmanship.

We can become partners when you become a secular democracy.
It’s obvious that religious states (Pakistan) and religious leaders(Modi) are bad for peace.

At least we don’t have extremists at the State’s affairs. Unlike in India.

If you truely believe that then good for you.
All the best..!

Modi and bjp are religious extremists aren’t they ?

No, not at the moment.
But there is always a possibility.

Then good for you too

 

[ziaulislam]

You pessimism is on another level. You are expecting India to continue to grow rapidly and increase rate of growth while simultaneously expecting Pakistan to become stagnant. Who said US has abandoned Taiwan? There was news of new f-16 sale being approved to Taiwan just last week. US also approved sale of spare parts for older F-16s this past December.

Firstly, India's economic growth under Modi's rule has declined:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/economy/india-gdp-q3-2019/index.html

Secondly we have seen their lack of preparation and capability in military sector just one month ago. This is not just their failure against combat with PAF but their failure at Balakot where they had the advantage. Since that they have ditched support for the SU-30, Tejas is useless and they are in conflict with themselves over Rafales.

Why are you pessimistic about Pakistan's growth? There may be good news on the horizon for oil and CPEC is coming along. AFAIK CPEC is ahead of other BRI projects (not sure about this one) and it will be used as a prime example by China, for other countries, at the benefits of getting involved with BRI. That means they cannot just abandon a partner.

Pakistan's image has GREATLY improved throughout the world from this last encounter. Believe me that is an understatement. All this said it's not all good news and it's good to remain vigilant and hope for the best while being prepared for the worst.

yes i expect Pakistan not to grow if maryum and bilawal whose image is being enhanced come back to power in 2023..next 3 years will be fire fighting..

i am basing this assessment on looking at the history from 1990-2020..

while you are basing your assessment on hope that all of sudden the jiyalas and matwalas will become irrelevant and PTI or any progressive party will remain in power...

you saw how PML N swung the judges to give him unfair releif....what makes you think he will not be able to come to power again..

i was optimistic like you when i saw mushi era..but you saw how judges released both open and shut cases of zardari and nawaz

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Take a conniving phapey kutni dihati woman multiply by 1000. Voila you get common Indian folk.

 

[ziaulislam]

We made fun of Indians, but they proved that all MKIs do is act as airborne radars

honestly this hurts my perceived image of Russian avionics and importantly radars..it seems that if even Chinese hate something (flanker avionics/radars) in the 1990s era its quality has to be low. you can see how every one is saying that su30 were not able to provide firing solution(were being jammed unable to lock on)

fact is Russia is excellent at building rockets, engines but seems is lagging behind in radars and avionics sector.

 

[Dazzler]

The word "shame" literally doesn't exist in the neighbourhood

NEW DELHI: India had registered a diplomatic protest over the sale of Swedish early warning aircraft to Pakistan and had objected strongly to the transfer of South African long range bombs, both of which were used to target military installations in India after the Balakot terror camp strike last month.

Besides F 16 fighter jets – subsidised by the US for the war on terror – Pakistan used these two critical systems to target an Indian brigade headquarter and other installations in Nowsh ..

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68590492.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Vortex]

They should also complain to the Pakistan’s awam because they paid some taxes which where used to buy those weapons systems. And because all our Army’s men are Pakistanis.
They should also complain to Israel because their spice wasn’t so spicy as they thought it would be.

 

[valkyr_96]

Seems, you are still clueless, didn't learn anything from the latest hostilities.

I think we have beating our chest for far to long. Wishing on those oil reserves.

Where Pakistan lost is failure to undertake financial reforms (India did). We do not have bankruptcy courts and defaulters actually hold more power over its debtors. Most of them have to renegotiate on lax terms to get the ball rolling (usury blackmail). Instead of liquidation or perhaps restructuring, we have a register of shame called the defaulters list. Now how is this going to affect the shameless people? We need to strip people of their equity.

I was really hoping Imran Khan would go down this path because of Mr. Mahathir's influence (restricting tools should not only be applicable to PSEs but also to corporate). Following the Asian Financial Crisis Malaysia had to carve out its own path to restructuring its industries and economy. While IMF is not inherently bad, it lacks social empathy in its programs (too textbook). Basically they took most of the IMF measures but went slowly. If we can fix our financial system, there is a lot of money to go around. The government need not bother with fixing PSEs, it can invite foreign private equity players specializing in corporate governance deals and co-invest. If we can create a safe investment in private equity, even public equity will feel the pressure to improve corporate governance.

Furthermore, we can need to make the triservice foundations to become proper private equity and pension fund players (instead of running "bakeries" "petrol pumps" etc.). If they come as a co-invest strategy, this will invite good corporate governance (hoping for less shady stuff -corruption, collusion), newer opportunities and diversification. Same should happen with EOBI. This really needs to happen in the case of RekoDiq if the news is true that the Army wants to secure it. If the Army does this on its own or through a private partner this can invite attacks from A.Sdqa types and well as resentment from others.

We need to get the goras in the management and kick the lor@s out of the system. This will instill some character and improve management at least over the fund life (10 to 13 years) Even without the oil I think this is doable.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

Can anyone please tell when will we get these aircrafts that were ordered cuz I read somewhere that one will be delivered in Dec 17 and the rest somewhere in 2018.
They way Indians are flashing their money we should be worried because they can grant billions to the parties just to hurt us.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

From Incredible India to #ProtestingIndia

From Shinning India to #CryingIndia

What a free fall.... #FallingIndia

 

[valkyr_96]

And it will only work where India spend more onto OEM and buy in large numbers. Like Rafale & Scorpene sale where India lobbied hard as France may not sell top tier thing to Pakistan. On other hand, be it SAAB or LM; actually it is Pakistan that helped them sell anything more in this regard. However, India is afraid that can take such humiliation being called a "Cry Baby" but can't afford to mention "JF-1" at all. Such propaganda works both ways. As soon as India said F-16 and almost everyone falls in love with Fighting Falcon. Now India says SAAB; we may see more of discussion about Swedish platform and its marketing. And by any chance if India slips to say "JF-17" (India is holding so hard), imagine the outcome though, most is achieved since 27th Feb clash.

Wasn't Saab using Pakistan to market its Awacs in the middle east. We have done enough for LM ever since they painted the F16 over Karakorum/Himalayas as part of their pitch.

 

[Imran Khan]

india went total mad . so a free country like pakistan should be total unarmed and mercy of india then they will be satisfied and bomb us .

 

[ziaulislam]

Wasn't Saab using Pakistan to market its Awacs in the middle east. We have done enough for LM ever since they painted the F16 over Karakorum/Himalayas as part of their pitch.

look india is world largest arms importer and this will not change anytime..

I think we have beating our chest for far to long. Wishing on those oil reserves.

Where Pakistan lost is failure to undertake financial reforms (India did). We do not have bankruptcy courts and defaulters actually hold more power over its debtors. Most of them have to renegotiate on lax terms to get the ball rolling (usury blackmail). Instead of liquidation or perhaps restructuring, we have a register of shame called the defaulters list. Now how is this going to affect the shameless people? We need to strip people of their equity.

I was really hoping Imran Khan would go down this path because of Mr. Mahathir's influence (restricting tools should not only be applicable to PSEs but also to corporate). Following the Asian Financial Crisis Malaysia had to carve out its own path to restructuring its industries and economy. While IMF is not inherently bad, it lacks social empathy in its programs (too textbook). Basically they took most of the IMF measures but went slowly. If we can fix our financial system, there is a lot of money to go around. The government need not bother with fixing PSEs, it can invite foreign private equity players specializing in corporate governance deals and co-invest. If we can create a safe investment in private equity, even public equity will feel the pressure to improve corporate governance.

Furthermore, we can need to make the triservice foundations to become proper private equity and pension fund players (instead of running "bakeries" "petrol pumps" etc.). If they come as a co-invest strategy, this will invite good corporate governance (hoping for less shady stuff -corruption, collusion), newer opportunities and diversification. Same should happen with EOBI. This really needs to happen in the case of RekoDiq if the news is true that the Army wants to secure it. If the Army does this on its own or through a private partner this can invite attacks from A.Sdqa types and well as resentment from others.

We need to get the goras in the management and kick the lor@s out of the system. This will instill some character and improve management at least over the fund life (10 to 13 years) Even without the oil I think this is doable.

i see reforms have been worked out but there is too much resistance from every bureaucrat, judges, politicians and even people who still believe in 1970s ideology of communism