Sweden offer to collabrate with india for LCA

[Dash]

He is just beset with "withdrawal symptoms" so desperate for his daily fix.......

Very tempting symptoms indeed.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

Yes Saab has a great experience in making the plane. Our main problem is aerodynamics and Engine integration. If we can get these 2 areas right. LCA can be a huge success. Give some partnership to them in LCA project. We can have a world class fighter from the integration of Tejas and gripen technology.

Hi
Sir you quoted two problems .
1.Engine :- SAAB itself uses the American GE 404 and 414. How can it help us then?
2.Aerodynamics:- Sir during the initial study of LCA project , we had roped in Dassault as an advisor, the reason which LCA is a delta wing.
Won't it be better if we take their assistance for the designs refinements.

Cheers
Thanks

But the main difference is that Up-till 247 Gripen has been manufactured and In Service of Various AF For Years and LCA is Still far from getting its FOC.

have not you not seen drop in our Squadrons numbers our pilots are forced fly mig-21 till 2021 or beyond

Hi
The main problem you are saying is manufacturing techniques , I am very much ok with SAABs assistance on this. But not it's expertise. They are themselves not in a very good condition with NG. Latest price estimate is about 80 million dollars and timeline is 2018. Now in this case are they competent enough to advice us for mk2.
Cheers
Thanks

 

[cerberus]

1.Engine :- SAAB itself uses the American GE 404 and 414. How can it help us then?

No the Gripen uses Volvo RM12 Engine which upgrade of General Electric F404 Produced by Volvo Aero (now GKN Aerospace Engine Systems) General Electric produces 50% of the engine. Elements such as the fan/compressor discs and case, compressor spool, hubs, seals, and afterburner are manufactured in Sweden, final assembly also taking place Sweden.

Hi
Sir you quoted two problems .
1.Engine :- SAAB itself uses the American GE 404 and 414. How can it help us then?
2.Aerodynamics:- Sir during the initial study of LCA project , we had roped in Dassault as an advisor, the reason which LCA is a delta wing.
Won't it be better if we take their assistance for the designs refinements.

Cheers
Thanks



Hi
The main problem you are saying is manufacturing techniques , I am very much ok with SAABs assistance on this. But not it's expertise. They are themselves not in a very good condition with NG. Latest price estimate is about 80 million dollars and timeline is 2018. Now in this case are they competent enough to advice us for mk2.
Cheers
Thanks

Poor maintenance facilities and Manufacturing Rate of HAL can't be compared with Swedish Firms which are Top Notch

The main problem you are saying is manufacturing techniques , I am very much ok with SAABs assistance on this. But not it's expertise. They are themselves not in a very good condition with NG. Latest price estimate is about 80 million dollars and timeline is 2018. Now in this case are they competent enough to advice us for mk2.

Manufacturing biggest problem So poor Technical Capacity Remember LCA is just Beginning We HAL has much complex project in hand which is AMCA

 

[ito]

Hi

Points where we actually need help.

1. Engine . SAAB can't help it.
2.AESA . Israel is already helping us and our AESA would probably come out before them.
3.Avionics . Our French origin ones are working excellent and IAF is quite satisfied with it.
4.Weapons . Again our own missile program is progressing at a good pace with Israeli and Russian help.

What else can SAAB offer us?

Cheers
Thanks

If so why is LCA is still not production ready?

We need help. SAAB is better placed since LCA and Gripen are similar planes.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

If so why is LCA is still not production ready?

We need help. SAAB is better placed since LCA and Gripen are similar planes.

Hi
As I stated. Getting help in production techniques is ok.
But getting expertise in improving our LCA.?
Our LCA in present form is very much comparable to Gripen A/B.

Cheers
Thanks

Hi
As some members stated that Gripen uses Volvo engines and Indeginious radars.

Gripen is in production for some 15 years. So developing an indeginious derivative of an original product. Still about 50% of parts is from GE.
Similarly if HAL which assembles the turbfans for our flankers start producing the spare parts under its name, we could very well have an Indian engine except for the high grade Titanium alloy which comes from Russia.Similarly Volvo has gained experience over 15 years and started manufacturing most of the spares and some parts of the engine. Rest high temperature alloys still come from US.


2ND Its radar. Like we took help of Israel in developing a Radar for LCA. Similarly Sweden had taken help from Marconi company, a very well known company.

PS:- I have no problem with Taking SAABs help in production of Tejas.
But they are not so capable right now that they can help us in improving it.
Yes they can help in design refinements(by this I mean that there is no observable distinction on macro level).

Cheers
Thanks

 

[halupridol]

Hi
As I stated. Getting help in production techniques is ok.
But getting expertise in improving our LCA.?
Our LCA in present form is very much comparable to Gripen A/B.

Cheers
Thanks

u don't get it,,,do u.
ok, lca in current form is comparable to grippen a/b,,,,,doesn't that alone justify SAAB's proposal,,,, just look when SAAB developed those aircraft,,,while we r still struggling.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

Hi
I would also like to mention this fact that SAAB took 11 years from the Gripens first flight to its induction in the Swedish airforce dispute having an experience and support of other European Nations.

And its still about 15 Years for Tejas.Its not bad at all thinking that it was India's first attempt.

Cheers
Thanks

 

[migflug]

Hi
Just wanted to know your opinion.
Which company is better.
Dassault or SAAB according to you.

Cheers
Thanks



Hi
Its obvious. They started work much before us.
By work I mean some serious work.

And what can they offer us in Tejas program.

Cheers
Thanks

Of course dassault is better but tejas mk2 or gripen ng wont replace rafale. Both r different category. And we can take help from saab because both planes are quite similar. In collabration we can have mk2 in 20 or21 but without it production will definitly start by 25 since afaik mk2 airframe will be from scrach and to validate it it will take atleast 2000 flights.
We can also take help from dassault but they havent offered us any jv abt single engine

 

[HariPrasad]

1.Engine :- SAAB itself uses the American GE 404 and 414. How can it help us then?
2.Aerodynamics:- Sir during the initial study of LCA project , we had roped in Dassault as an advisor, the reason which LCA is a delta wing.

Hi,
Read carefully.
It is engine integration and not engine itself. It includes the Air intake design and integration problem which prevents lca from achieving optimum performance. Gripen withthe same engine is faster than LCA.
LCA is to compact and has a problem in fitness ratio. Plane was proposed to be prolonged by 56 inches but it would mean a totally a new plane. In MK 2 they are making it half a meter long. So aerodynamic issues are there. With the the solution in aerodynamics, we can MK2 much better.

 

[chauvunist]

I thought it was about to take FoC as claimed here by many Indians...But nonetheless it should collect some parts from Sweden as well,after all nothing major on this plane in Indian anyway..

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

I thought it was about to take FoC as claimed here by many Indians...But nonetheless it should collect some parts from Sweden as well,after all nothing major on this plane in Indian anyway..

Hi
I sometime back checked details of K8 karakoram. And I was still surprised that its production still depends on the kits sent by China.
I am not mentioning Thunder because it will force you to troll( normally loosers do it).

Cheers
Thanks

Hi,
Read carefully.
It is engine integration and not engine itself. It includes the Air intake design and integration problem which prevents lca from achieving optimum performance. Gripen withthe same engine is faster than LCA.
LCA is to compact and has a problem in fitness ratio. Plane was proposed to be prolonged by 56 inches but it would mean a totally a new plane. In MK 2 they are making it half a meter long. So aerodynamic issues are there. With the the solution in aerodynamics, we can MK2 much better.

Hi
I never denied that improvements can be made. But look at the situation, they are struggling with the NG. I would be happy if BAE or Boeing is involved because they are experienced in making 4++ gen fighters.

Cheers
Thanks

Of course dassault is better but tejas mk2 or gripen ng wont replace rafale. Both r different category. And we can take help ffrom Saab because both planes are quite similar. In collabration we can have mk2 in 20 or21 but without it production will definitly start by 25 since afaik mk2 airframe will be from scrach and to validate it it will take atleast 2000 flights.
We can also take help from dassault but they havent offered us any jv abt single engine

Hi
My opposition is based on this point. The NG version was to be ready by 2017 with a price tag of 65 million dollars. But now the timeline is 2018 with 80+million dollars.I would be happy if BAE or Boeing is involved because both of them have experience in making 4++ gen fighters.

Cheers
Thanks

 

[migflug]

Hi
I sometime back checked details of K8 karakoram. And I was still surprised that its production still depends on the kits sent by China.
I am not mentioning Thunder because it will force you to troll( normally loosers do it).

Cheers
Thanks

But why will boeing LM su or mig will help us . They are not building any next gen 4.5 single engine plane. Whereas gripen is much similar to tejas. Also saab gives TOT to its operator remember TOT. whereas whole mmrca failed due to tot. Saab even give its operator their source code and operators can change their avionics according to their use eg. South africa. Even saab has allowed brazil to export their gripen to latin or african countries from their production house. No any company is so flexible not even our sukhoi. Hence gripen



Hi
I never denied that improvements can be made. But look at the situation, they are struggling with the NG. I would be happy if BAE or Boeing is involved because they are experienced in making 4++ gen fighters.

Cheers
Thanks



Hi
My opposition is based on this point. The NG version was to be ready by 2017 with a price tag of 65 million dollars. But now the timeline is 2018 with 80+million dollars.I would be happy if BAE or Boeing is involved because both of them have experience in making 4++ gen fighters.

Cheers
Thanks

 

[chauvunist]

Hi
I sometime back checked details of K8 karakoram. And I was still surprised that its production still depends on the kits sent by China.
I am not mentioning Thunder because it will force you to troll( normally loosers do it).

Cheers
Thanks



Hi
I never denied that improvements can be made. But look at the situation, they are struggling with the NG. I would be happy if BAE or Boeing is involved because they are experienced in making 4++ gen fighters.

Cheers
Thanks



Hi
My opposition is based on this point. The NG version was to be ready by 2017 with a price tag of 65 million dollars. But now the timeline is 2018 with 80+million dollars.I would be happy if BAE or Boeing is involved because both of them have experience in making 4++ gen fighters.

Cheers
Thanks

We call it joint ventures for a reason,unlike your's where every project starts as indigenous and end up with all major components being imported and still fails to impress your own armed forces..

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

We call it joint ventures for a reason,unlike your's where every project starts as indigenous and end up with all major components being imported and still fails to impress your own armed forces..

Joint venture , a very nice term.
Can you say what's the percentage of Contribution in Thunder. If its more than 33% I will delete my reply.

 

[Manindra]

Joint venture , a very nice term.
Can you say what's the percentage of Contribution in Thunder. If its more than 33% I will delete my reply.

You should bet on 5%