Hey Pashtun!.First lets set some records straight here;
Fazllulah is neither TNSM...also not accepted by his father in law (sufi mohd,founder of the tnsm), who does not support an armed conflict with the security agencies or the GOP,neither does he support the ban on girls education.Fazllulah runs his own band of millitia called the Tehrik e Taliban Swat (TTS).,has declared jihad on the state of Pakistan post LaL Masjid operation and declares open hostility with the PA.Outright terrorist.
First of all thanks for the detailed response.
Well not exactly. Sufi Mohammed supports Fazulllah and endorses what he does. That is why he was one of the prisoners to be released when the deal was struck by fazullulah with GoP.
Secondly, it's a misinformation that Sufi Muhammad does not want armed conflict with GoP. He was the main person who started this armed conflict back in the 90s:
"Maulana Sufi Muhammad raised the standard of revolt in 1981 demanding an Islamic order in the region. He founded the TNSM in 1989 and the following year established his own order harking back to the “state” courts of Swat, Dir and Chitral which dispensed quick justice before 1969 but were notoriously corrupt. In 1990 Sufi Muhammad’s armed mobs numbering 40,000 clashed with the government and blocked the Grand Trunk Road for a week."
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
So I am not sure where you are getting your information from about sufi Mohammad.
He signed a six point truce with the GOP which included renouncing armed conflict and attacks on security and gov agencies.True to his word he has stuck to the deal,however fazllulah seems to have a penchant for breaching every deal that is negotiated with him.The gop and the armed forces have learned it the hard way.trsuting him and hoping for a peaceful way out have fallen apart numerous times.Like i said before all he wants is to create mayhem and rage an armed conflict.
Thats a wrong information again. It wasn't him who broke the truce, it was Federal Govt. that broke the truce by arresting their people. The six point deals also included that no action will be taken against them or their fighters. Yet, the GoP broke the truce by arresting one of their leader in Hangu, breaking the truce TTP made with Prov. govt. and the Provincial Govt. raised their concern over that as well, because they are the biggest losers in that - the following video will attesify this and the other facts on ground:
Capital Talk – 19th January 2009
U are way off mark here.Fazllulah has no control beyond Kabal,Matta,Khawazakhella and Charbagh (Charbagh has been reclaimed by the PA according to reports)The TTS needs Mingawara if it has to establish itself...its the capital of swat afterall and the base point for the PA.Recently the curfew has been lifted but to assume the main city wont be affected is foolish.All other towns u mention want nothing to do with the taliban or fazllulah esp Dir post the afghan war.
You are mistaken again. Dir and Kohistan and Buner and Shnglapar, militants tried to take control of these areas (they even blew one masjid along with worshippers in dir) but the response from the people was exceptional and they dealt with the problem. The Military told them they will help them, but they refused and said they will take care of the matters.
Now go back to Matta, Kabal, Charbagh (is as big as a mall in North America btw), here army started operation on their own. Nobody asked for it and now we can see whats going on there. Similarly Mingawara was very quiet, even during the elections, but as soon Army stepped in, that too has fell.
Even tho people pledged their help to Army. One case in particular, Pir Sameeullah raised a lashkar on behest of army, and when he took up against the Militants thinking Army is on his back, there was nobody as far he could look. He lost. Got killed. And his body was hung from the post. People are still asking why army abandoned him like that and watched from the sideline?
Pashtun it is NOT the army that harbours terrorism and takes it alongside itself as u would believe!it was already bubbling within those towns since the afghan jihad and more near the end of november 2007!We only see now,after its blown full in our faces.Like u say denial is not a river in Pakistan.
The point here is, I am not alleging that army harbours terrorism. I am asking questions, since you all think you know army and situation more than anyone else, hence my questions that I see on ground. So far none had been answered, except I had been told I am not a Pakistani, not a Muslim (imagine) because I am questioning army's actions there.
So please do not misinterpret my questions into some sort of claim that Army harbours terrorism. But answer the questions I asked many times (you can find them in my posts), that on the ground, now everyone thinks the Army and the Militants are ONE.
Our leaders have already raised this question with General Kiyani that Army must need to do something (in right direction) to clarify people's perception that militants and army is one.
BBCUrdu.com | ??????? | ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???????
That is the point behind this discussion that certain actions of the Army are questioned on the bases of ground facts.
Like I said they r not going anywhere..they r where they always were,only now they find the opportunity to come out and push their various agendas!And it has nothing to do with the PA unless u believe the army is into commiting mass suicide.Outrageous!
Here's a statement,clearly the deaths r not only among the civilians but also the army;
“We have lost 142 men in Swat since July last. This is not child’s play. This is no friendly match,” a visibly angry security official said.
Security officials say that the political leadership at the helm was also to blame for failing to put in place a civil administration that responds to public needs and generate public support.“We should have had the back-up support from the police and the civil administration which is not there. This has put us on the back foot,” the security official said.http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/15/top1.htm
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Yes, that is why I said, who is pushing the army to commit this suicide. Since the common soldiers doesn't make the decisions, they just execute the orders. The elite decides where to send the army and where to not. And that elite is being questioned here (not the poor soldiers, who are laying their lives for the protection of their country).
So the point here is, who is forcing PA to create this gap between themselves and the civilian society that now PA officers are told not to disclose they are from Army and do not wear uniforms in public. I mean why?
Your concerns r valid but here's another statement;
[COLOR="RoyalBlue[B]"]“It’s a tough area and when you operate in an area where you don’t know who the enemy is and who your friends are, it makes things a lot more difficult,” he said[/B].[/COLOR]
Desperate moves on to secure Swat — the lost valley -DAWN - Top Stories; January 15, 2009
Esp when most of the soldiers r probably getting their first views of the geography of swat!To top it the population is spread out.
Its not a skirmish out there,,,its a war..most of the collateral damage are the civilians who get caught up when the two sides start exchanging fire.All reports point that out.The PA is at a disadvantage,usually it ends up fighting an enemy it cant see or mark out,attacks at night and who know how to use the area to their best advantage.Let that be not a basis to judge the PAs' sincereity!
yes, so what do you do? start flattening he villages? Kill everyone because you don't know who is who? or should you come with a better strategy, something political, something more surgical. You do not cut the arm if it is hurting you. You fix it, through proper means.
Also in the same report;
The battle for the airwaves in Swat has taken a new turn. Radical cleric Maulana Fazlullah is back on the air but even his radio has proved to be too weak against his lieutenant Shah Doran whose broadcastes are heard far and wide, thanks to a 500 KV transmitter to defeat government’s efforts to jam his sermons.
The government now plans to overcome the problem by setting up a one megawatt transmitter that, it believes, would effectively silence the militant radio propaganda.
Taking him out is more important than just stopping his radio broadcasts anyway.
And still hasn't done? I mean where did he get that from that the GoP, with all his resources couldn't get it jammed, which is the most important one? Why has he allowed to meet with american officials in Serena Hotel (confirmed in one of Zaid hamid's lectures)? why has he allowed to hold press conferences? Why he is given safe passages many time when people reported on the ground that he is there and PA should take action? rather PA stood by and the people who reported it, found shot dead the other day.
There too many more questions that comes to mind if you talk to locals or reside there for a few weeks.
I still say 'tolerance'. The operation in swat has been ongoing since November 2007 in a revised step by step format.Judging by that,the loss of life(sad as it is and i wish stops)seems,was tried to be kept minimum .Only after the entrance into the third phase i.e now,have we actually started to hear abt collateral damage.Like the army puts it in a report the release of militants in mid 2008 and peace deals from a position of weakness and failure to implement them by the GOP has not helped the cause.
Exactly, tolerance. Dialogue. Give n take. That's the only solution. For two years, the lives of millions have been destroyed. Do you know its not only the life loss, but entire businesses have been destroyed. the main industry, toursim have been destroyed.
And what will be in the end (the third phase), another deal struck with him to find peace. Watch, there will be another deal in the making soon. So if we are to make deals with him, then why destroy the lives of your own citizens? why not just make the bloody deal and get over it!
Agreed.The peanuts we call AID is not worth Pakistan...not in any amount. But obviously there r a few dents in the relationship,with NATO/USA now looking at central asia for a route.Then again does that solve the problem?In my opinion it only makes it worse for us.
Exactly. We loss much more than what we gained in few helicopters and few billion dollars. That is why I said, some people, some where up there, made these decisions for their own petty gains. Not for the country. Because clearly (as you confirme) it's not in the interest of country. But some power and money hungry elite destroyed our country for their own interest. That is exactly the people I am questioning here, not the common army.
Do u think the army would have been called in if the ppl in swat had been able to contain them like the ppl of Dir were able to?we have short memeories!the reason the army is there are the blantant show of militancy in mingawara and the adjoining areas,be it targeting the security personal and institutions,the government health officers,target killing of political agents,blowing up schools,killing innocents (like the female school teacher),running parallel systems and total non acceptance of the legislation of Pakistan!Its the enemys design of armed mayhem these mullahs have fallen for,not the army!
As I said earlier, the Pir Sameeullah incident is very evident. Do you think people will listen to army now to rise? when they know Army will leave them alone to militants to be shot dead including their family. That is why people on the ground now thinks, they are the same. They are just creating this controlled chaos for money and power and to make the master happy.
The army has not increased anything.we have been dusting the dirt under our doormats for too long!Everytime the army gains control of an area,wht does the gov back it up with?thats where the problem lies!
. I have.
Well I disagree here. the ground reality is, the militancy have risen so much that the media is writing, Swat has Fallen to Militants. (I am sure you have read those news).
It had to be done in bajaur.If u had been following u would know those very houses were used as coverups for underground tunnels.no other way round it.And yes the ppl of swat have been migrating in masses to safer areas.Its all over the news.
I still disagree. The people of Swat are are not migrating in masses. Families are leaving, who can afford to leave, thats about it. Everyone is still there. Media is just exagerating that. It's not like Bajaur, where over half a million were made refugees to destroy "tunnels". Even the Markets of Khar were destroyed to pave the way for tanks. I am not sure how a tunnel can be dug in those treacherous mountains from Afghanistan to 100 km inside Pakistan. These people must be sent to Switzerland to dug that tunnel under Alps that they are trying to dig for years to build a railway line.
Agreed.The strategy is debatable.But again that doesnot undermine the sincereity of the PA
And u blame the army solely?Be fair Pashtun!
I repeat again, not the PA, the elite, which is pushing the PA by making them believe they are sincerely killing their own citizens for the sake of the country. (Tho I am sure you've heard the stories abotu jawans dropping the weapons by refusing to kill their own muslim brethern).
The army needs to backed up by the ppl. and yes it may need to review its strategy but militancy has to be cleared,otherwise they continue to be fodder for those who want to see destabilized Pakistan.
Ofcourse the people support the Army. We still support the army. We are only asking raising concerns about the certain strategies and actions of the army that has made people beleive that militants and Army are one. And as I mentioned earlier, we have already relayed that to General Kiyani.
If we were not supporting Army, we would have picked the arms against it, not asking the General to do soemthing to clarify this perception, you know. Do not underestimate our love for our country.
Swat and FATA r not the mismanaged legacy of the armed forces but a complete failure of our civilian institutions and political failures and decisions(The main reason behind the Dhaka downfall as well),top that with fanatical mullahs!
I disagree. Swat and FATA is a mismangement of PA. They never let civilian instituition to take control. Musharraf unilaterly decided everything, from operations to invasions. Everything.
If you remember, Army replaced NWFP governer Ali Muhammad Jan Orakzai because he was trying to resolve the problem through dialogues, which United States did not like, as they wanted PA to attack FATA, and hence Musharraf did that. And that is exactly what happened in Dhakka. yahya said, kill three million of them and rest will eat from our hands. He was not civilian leader, but military dictator. There was no civilian govt. at that time.
We donot have a dictorial form of government anymore.The military is directly under the civilian rule.Lets stop heaping all our woes on our soldiers who r writing history with their blood.How strong has been the capital or the provincial assemblies in all this,except sending in the troops?Whats their stand and what steps have been taken by them to ensure peace in Pakistan?!!!I dont see you questioning that!
First of all please do not play soldiers card over n over again. Please understand that nobody is questioning the sincerety and loyalty of the soldiers but the top brass.
Further, I disagree that Military is under GoP. When Civilian govt. decided to move ISI under Interior Ministry, the military made it reverse her orders in the middle of night. Similarly they said they will send ISI chief to India, they were snubbed and made it change their statement. And General Kiyani's recent remarks that Army have to intervene in GoP time to time to make sure everything goes accordingly, makes perfect sense that Military runs the govt.
We need to get our act together and say no to the feudal elite that is running the business for their petty interests, before its too late. We have to stop dancing on america's tunes. Let us die hungry or in the hands of enemy (if thats the final fate), but with dignity, and not by the people who sworn to protect us.
Thank you!
what are you talking about? there was ruckus in parliament, PML-N and JUI protested that decision. these democratically elected feudal politicians that you elected are some of the stupidest and jahel people on earth. no one in their right mind would send the intelligence chief to india, after he is summoned to india by the great indian PM. do you think india owns this country, that they could just summon the DG ISI and he'll come just like that? especially after all of this mumbai drama, would you just send your own people there like that?
