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Swat Operation II

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Pakistan is a Utopian country and whatever bad happens in it is because of external forces. By the way, what is your army doing?. What happened to all the talk of sovereignty, when taliban is encroaching upon Pakistan's writ day by day.

Just like the Indian Utopian state that always blames Pakistan or other neighbouring countries for whatever happens in their borders... What happened during the Mumbai attacks? What was your army or intelligence doing other than blaming Pakistan for their own failures? Don't worry Indian. We will take care of the Mullah scum that are on US/Indian/Zionist pay roll. We will slit their throats and present them on a platter. Your voracious designs won't succeed.
 
Sad Indeed, This is what happens when Armies get deployed in Civilian areas. I dont blame the army Completely. Army is the Lesser Evil, the bigger evil being Taliban. I hope the people take it in their stride and the Pak Army moves in a kills these bloody terrorists.
 
I have been reading many threads in this forum about swat and unfortunately i found out that all of you are distracted from the point. what the true reality is ? No one out of you Know.
Agreed

I dont blame you because you dont live in swat. and you dont suffer. while we reside in swat and we know whats going on.
Swat State Was the most well developed state in this whole region.
Pakistan is trying to bult schools in whole country after every five kilometers, Swat state has obtained this Goal even before it Joined Pakistan officially on 28th July 1969 after which the first and only thing that is made in swat is the now being built Cancer Hospital By the federal Govt and thats all.
Agreed. i far as i know it has the highest literacy rate.
Its a pity that till last week the media ignored swat. The were paid by the agencies.
Not agreed to. Media was behind Swat since the day one. Well as far as the agencies are concern you may like to name a few.

Swati people have helped the Pakistan Army in every aspect.

we helped and our relatives died in getting the now called Azad KAshmir
we helped and our relatives died in the 1971 war.
we helped and our relatives died in the 1965 war.
we helped and our relatives died in even the Kargil Conflict. General Musharraf in his book have called them as Mujahideens in his book "In the line of fire"
Agreed in totality.
But what army and intelligence is doing to us is shameful.
Well now this needs clarifications.
They thereselves have started this drama and and now they and the so called Taliban are killing civilians. They are killing each and every person who is damaging their drama.
Its rather a bold claim. Please give me a reason for this 'drama'.
We used to ask the army why are you not taking action? and their answer was always like this. WE DONT HAVE ORDERS.
Let me clear this one right now. A dude sitting at the font lines ofcourse is not acting independently. He gets orders from them who also gets orders from those sitting in the civil govt. The Army is there 'In Aid of Civil Power', its not Martial Law. Try to understand the difference here.

Your provincial govt says that we are NOT in control, the Federal Govt says it's a provincial and local problem, where should the Army go now. When nobody is in charge its a complete nightmare.

And then there is something known as Collateral Damage. The worst enemy of any fighting force.
The people then approached the army and asked for weapons so that they by themselves could Finish the violence but again the army denied.
Army don't supply weapons to civilians.period.
we ourself witnessed once when the taliban were burning and blasting a school and the army check post was a mere 100 meters away and they didnt even bother to retaliate. Taliban stood there for one hour and when the school was completely destroyed they then left.
Alot of reasons behind this.
Its amazing that anyone who contact the army secretly and tells them taliban positions , he is killed and beheaded the next day. This means only one thing. TALIBAN AND THE HIGHER ARMY RANKS ARE ONE.
Now this worries me the most!
To block an FM radio Merely cost less then a Lac . Taliban FM radio channel is still on air even after the passage of One and a half year. Why is the govt Not blocking it... pretty obvious...
Agreed, but the Army isn't in charge over there.
I live in swat my whole family lives in swat. Two of my sisters are doctors. they too live in swat. we gave our sisters their due share in inheritance. we follow islam. Yes our women Observe Parda. My sisters too observe parda. But still they are Doctors now.
Thats impressive. But does shariat stops women from getting education. Which shariat are those terrorist talking about?
I also request all of you to dufferenciate between Mullah And Aalims and Mufti.

Aalim gets the degree of aalim when he after doing his F.A or FSC he study for Eight years in a dar-ul-ullom.

And when the Aalim further studies three more years he then after passing his Exam is given the degree of Mufti.

That becomes a total of 11 years of education after doing F.A or FSC.
Thanks for the piece of knowledge.
There is no doubt that the people of swat Love Islam and they want the implementation of islamic laws instead of the laws gifted to us bu the British Rulers.
If you call that 'thing' shariat which the terrorists in Swat are trying to implement im not with you. Now when the respected ladies in your home are well educated and also follow Islam in its true spirit.

In the end just give some reasons for what all the Army in particular and Pakistan in general can gain from the situation you have defined.
 
i totally agree with you brother.... its all drama... i m an electronic engineer and in my final year project i made a device in which i could stop all the mobile network connections and all it cost me to buy equipments was 20 pounds which is like 3000 rupees. but the army who got billions of rupees cant even stop one FM channel? how pitty....if they cant do it then they should hire me atleast. lol

Why are you blaming the Army was this dude..??
When the Army kicks some *** then again people like you says that the Army is killing own people, now when they don't or for that matter they tend to be careful and get their own people killed you again are not satisfied. Do one thing- join either of the parties(the Army or the militants) atleast then you would be satiated with yourself.
 
=RedBaron;274290]Ah, I see you're hinting at the USA-UK-Israel-India axis again...[qoute]And why is the army not acting in Swat? One reason could be they fear that Mehsud's TTP would then kill soldiers and govt officials held hostage by them as threatened in the article. After all TTP and Swat Taliban seem to be brother organizations.
Wow! i like the way you think don't try to implement the same ideas as you conceive about your army's performance in Kashmir.
If the Army would have been afraid then the A** busting being done by the Army in Wana and surroundings would have stopped a long time ago.
 
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I read a new that few so called talaban fighters killed in SWAT having no circumcision at least indian raw should do circumcision their terrorist before sending them to pakistan to hide their identity.:lol:

RAJK let's get back to the topic.

I agree with you waraich. The report is valid and I've even confirmed this via some sources. No Circumcisions = Non Muslims. Which in return equals a foreign involvement.
 
Some weeks ago Pakistan Army had established the writ of the State everywhere.
This article may be a fig of imagination.
 
Taliban’s deadly ‘justice’ cows Pakistan


Sharia judges are ordering beatings and executions as punishment for cases of 'immoral activity'


Pakistani Taliban police publicly flog an alleged narcotic smuggler in Charbagh, Swat Valley.

Daud Khattak, Peshawar

FORCED face first into the dust and pinned down by three men in black hoods, a young offender faced the merciless force of Taliban justice in Pakistan last week as he was beaten 30 times with a hard rod fashioned from old car tyres.

The punishment – for smoking cannabis – was inflicted in front of a silent crowd of approving bearded men and curious young boys in the North West Frontier Province village of Ser Talergram, a few miles from the once-popular ski resort of Malam Jabba.

In the nearby village of Dherai, three men in their thirties, Amjad Ali, Sarar Ali and one named only as Manai, were publicly lashed by armed, hooded Taliban policemen for drug dealing. Scarred by the beating, one of the men was so humiliated that he would no longer leave his home.

More than 70 Taliban courts are now ruling on hundreds of cases of “immoral activity” every week in the Swat valley, whose mountains, lakes and meadows were once a draw for tourists.

As insurgents vie for control of the area and impose sharia (religious law), harsh punishments are meted out for smuggling, using drugs or selling alcohol.

For women, refusal to wear a veil and dancing in public are punishable by death. The lesser charge of using a musical ring-tone can lead to the confiscation of the offending mobile phone or a hefty fine.

The Taliban’s reign of terror has prompted a series of advertisements in local Urdu newspapers from petrified Swat residents trying to renounce their offences to avoid brutal punishment. “I’ve stopped selling drugs and decided to earn my living by manual labour. In future, I won’t conduct un-Islamic business. Also, I’ll not use drugs,” said an advert published in a local Urdu paper by Nasirul Mulk, from Swat’s capital, Mingora.

The Taliban recently warned faith healers through their pirate radio station that they would face retribution if they did not stop “un-Islamic” practices. Yesterday a faith healer was found beheaded near Peshawar.

Other inhabitants endure the cruel consequences of the new hardline morality code. In Swat’s Mangalwar village, one man arrested for smuggling fell unconscious during a beating, but his tormentor insisted on carrying on until he had received all 30 lashes.

The 71 Taliban courts operating in the Kabal, Matta, Khwazakhela and Charbagh districts of Swat amount to a parallel legal system. Their judgments on finance, land disputes, smuggling and narcotics are arbitrary and handed out by self-proclaimed Taliban judges with scant legal or religious knowledge.

Taliban informers spy on people alleged to be breaking Islamic law, who then receive a three-day warning to shut their business. Most obey instantly, but anyone defying the order is arrested by armed Taliban and dragged to court for a summary trial the next day.

One Taliban judge in the Kooza Bandai region boasted that he had ruled on 55 cases in the past week. Almost all the decisions are verbal and there are no formal procedures.

The emergence of a parallel Taliban legal system has a sinister objective. “This is our first step towards the implementation of sharia in Swat,” said Muslim Khan, a Taliban spokesman. In the next phase, Khan said, the courts would begin to carry out harsher punishments, such as execution or chopping off hands.

Villagers said the Taliban were already killing people who defied their orders. “They didn’t even spare barbers and women coming out of markets without wearing their veils,” said a Mingora resident.

There have been 51 Taliban executions since the start of the year, he added. The victims include politicians, security men, dancers, prostitutes and shopkeepers selling alcohol.

Swat is not the only region now subject to Taliban justice. A fortnight ago a group of militants declared sharia in the Hangu district of the North West Frontier Province. The next day four men accused of robbery, their faces tarred, were paraded through a market on donkeys.


Other groups are also determined to deliver their own form of justice. Near the Khyber Pass, close to the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the militant group Lashkar-e-Islam publicly executed two people for killing a taxi driver. The accused were blindfolded and paraded before a crowd chanting, “God is great.” Two bearded men then opened fire and killed them with a burst from AK-47 rifles.

*******************

Sad state of affairs and Talibanisation of Swat.
 
We used to ask the army why are you not taking action? and their answer was always like this. WE DONT HAVE ORDERS.

The people then approached the army and asked for weapons so that they by themselves could Finish the violence but again the army denied. mean while people were being killed everyday and school were been burnt and blasted.

we ourself witnessed once when the taliban were burning and blasting a school and the army check post was a mere 100 meters away and they didnt even bother to retaliate. Taliban stood there for one hour and when the school was completely destroyed they then left.

Its amazing that anyone who contact the army secretly and tells them taliban positions , he is killed and beheaded the next day. This means only one thing. TALIBAN AND THE HIGHER ARMY RANKS ARE ONE.

... You can help us by approaching the leading Mufti's from the prestigeous Dar-ul-ulloms like Dar-ul-uloom Karachi, Jamia Binoria , Binori Town, Jumia Tur Rasheed and many more and bring them togather to formulate Sharia laws for implementation in swat.

In this was the terrorist would then no longer have any reason to kill people and burn schools and prepare innocent youngsters for suicide bombings etc.

Army is absolutely right in saying that they need orders before they can take action. They are not police and it is not their responsibility!

You can support Maulana Sufi Muhammad sahib as much as you want to but truth is that he needs to take part in election (this is allowed by Islam), any change needs to come via elections.

Why didn't your leaders took part in elections??

Right now you are represented by Syed Allou-uddin (PPPP) and you should take your demands to him in Islamabad.

Pakistan needs tobe ruled by one govt. and Sufi sahib is trying to run a parallel govt. which is not acceotable.

Next time you talk to Maulana Sufi Muhammad, please tell him to forgive his son in law Maulana Fazal of Tehrek-eTaliban and make peace with him.

What is happening in Swat is not because of the agencies but because of a turf war between Maulana Sufi Muhammad and his son in law Maulana Fazal.

KIND OF STRANGE THAT GEO SHOWS A REPORT ON SWAT AND THEN THIS GENTLEMAN SHOWS UP WITH THIS THREAD.
 
An argument has been raised that the Army is in cahoots with the Swat Taliban.

This is patently absurd. What rationale would there be for the military to be involved in the killing of hundreds of her own troops/FC/ Police and even more civilians?

What rationale woudl there be for the military to create instability within Pakistan that would cause investors to flee, the economy to slow down and the very revenues that pay for the military and its equipment to plummet?

Some have raised the argument that Pakistan is obtaining money from the US for these 'military operations'. This argument is ludicrous when applied to Swat because the GoP was receiving significant military aid from the US even before Swat started to burn. It is also ludicrous because the economic losses suffered by Pakistan as a result of Taliban related instability and violence are astronomical and dwarf US reimbursements for military operations.

In fact, the GoP only had to cancel any of the many peace deals it had inked with the various Taliban leaders in FATA and restart operations to 'claim' this 'reimbursement of expenses' from military operations, if this nonsensical theory were true.

It is true that Mullah Fm was allowed to strengthen his hold on Swat and go unchecked until the first (largely successful) Swat operation, but it must also be remembered that the provincial government at the time was run by the MMA, which did not see any harm in Mullah FM's actions, and allowed the extremism problem to get out of hand not just in Swat, but Peshawar and other areas of the NWFP as well.

When the Military operation was first initiated (SWAT Operation 1), the PA was largely successful. It is perhaps no coincidence that the recent surge in violence in Swat has coincided with the Bajaur operation, as well as attempts by the ANP (NWFP provincial government) to negotiate with the Swat TTP.

My suspicion is that troops being used in Swat may have been redeployed to the Najaur front, and possibly even more on the Eastern Front with India, to counter India's saber rattling and deployments. This may have caused this upsurge in violence, as an decreased PA presence, tied up with the political wrangling over which course to pursue (see this excellent analysis: http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-terror/13094-swat-operation-ii-10.html#post271497), finds itself unable to cope with the increased violence. Given the increased pressure in Bajaur, it is also possible that terrorist elements have moved to Swat from Bajaur.

Rational analysis and critique of the PA's performance in Swat is welcome - fantastic and nonsensical conspiracy theories of 'PA is in cahoots with the Swat Taliban for US cash' are not.
 
You can help us by approaching the leading Mufti's from the prestigeous Dar-ul-ulloms like Dar-ul-uloom Karachi, Jamia Binoria , Binori Town, Jumia Tur Rasheed and many more and bring them togather to formulate Sharia laws for implementation in swat.

In this was the terrorist would then no longer have any reason to kill people and burn schools and prepare innocent youngsters for suicide bombings etc.
Do you really think that terrorists actually have any demands like that? Its like suggesting that a murderer or rapist will stop committing murders of rapes because you arrange a wife for him.

These men are wild beasts - they have no humanity left in them. They do not desire Shariah, they desire power, the power to force their inhumanity upon innocent people and to enslave them to their bigoted, hateful and perverse ideology. They slaughter innocent people like animals, kill an d maim innocent little children, girls, and destroy their schools, in an evil campaign to relegate women to the role of animals.

Mark my words, the government will propose a Shariah bill, and these people will reject it because it is 'not Islamic enough'. The only 'Shariah' they will be satisfied with is one where women and girls have no rights, are openly beaten in the streets, abused at home, denied any chance for education or opportunity to better themselves and little girls are married to pedophiles masquerading as 'men of faith'.

These people will only be satisfied with a degenerate, immoral and jahill society - a fate worse than the Dark Ages is what they wish to inflict upon Pakistan. "Shariah" is just an excuse, the only way to stop them is to destroy them.
 
Do you really think that terrorists actually have any demands like that? Its like suggesting that a murderer or rapist will stop committing murders of rapes because you arrange a wife for him.

These men are wild beasts - they have no humanity left in them. They do not desire Shariah, they desire power, the power to force their inhumanity upon innocent people and to enslave them to their bigoted, hateful and perverse ideology. They slaughter innocent people like animals, kill an d maim innocent little children, girls, and destroy their schools, in an evil campaign to relegate women to the role of animals.

Mark my words, the government will propose a Shariah bill, and these people will reject it because it is 'not Islamic enough'. The only 'Shariah' they will be satisfied with is one where women and girls have no rights, are openly beaten in the streets, abused at home, denied any chance for education or opportunity to better themselves and little girls are married to pedophiles masquerading as 'men of faith'.

These people will only be satisfied with a degenerate, immoral and jahill society - a fate worse than the Dark Ages is what they wish to inflict upon Pakistan. "Shariah" is just an excuse, the only way to stop them is to destroy them.
My thoughts exactly. Appeasement will never work when dealing with Taliban bastards, as we all know that none of the previous “peace” deals worked. We must fight and exterminate them in Swat and FATA, because if we lose there, I have no doubt that their next target is going to be Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad.
 
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