Surgical strike was fake, we lost conventional deterrence against Pakistan, India not ready for war

[Longhorn]

The problem is that they have realized their weaknesses and will definitely work to rectify them as soon as possible.

However, we shouldn't sit back and think we can take them on we have to also plan to counter their strategies when they learn and rectify their shortfalls. Things need to improve and evolve from our side.

The scary thing is that they believe we have a nuclear "bluff". When infact it is not a bluff but reality. They might try to check if we are serious and that escalation ladder will make us also retain the escalation ladder and nuclear war could be triggered by them provoking us.

Currently we are on top we must NOT let any slippages happen we cannot be complacent.

Sticking your head into the tiger's mouth to check if he will bite it off is a dangerous game to play.

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Gen Bakhshi is hawak

And parveen sawhney is a dilusionizer.

 

[KhanBaba2]

Nobody is ready for war. In case of war, if India sits tight and defensive for 15 days, Pakistan will run out of moolah and will be a walkover.

 

[surge]

why should we listen to this idiot!! we dont need his praise etc

 

[fitpOsitive]

I am surprised this guy has not yet labelled as anti national or Pakistani for speaking truth.

He mentioned all capabilities of Pakistan, but he didn't mention the Indian capabilities. I don't know, but I was not easy when he was praising and highlighting only Pakistans capabilities, specially targeted on three important institutions.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Nobody is ready for war. In case of war, if India sits tight and defensive for 15 days, Pakistan will run out of moolah and will be a walkover.

Yeah for sure...from the horse mouth.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...ase-better-than-ours-army-vice-chief-4766949/

 

[fitpOsitive]

A perfect answer for those Indians online and fan boys arguing that indian military budget is way bigger than Pakistan and Pakistan is so easy to defeat.A simple example is even if you are earning 10 lakhs a month if you don't know how to manage and utilize your resources you are doomed to fail. Yes comparatively our resources are less but we are trying to get the most out of them.

If India is not ready, then you don't have to start this thread. You are starting this thread mean you want to take some timeout. But the truth is, both forces are ready, and this actually a bad news for the people of this region. I mean we must stop this madness right now. Let's make Jammu and Kashmir a free nation.

 

[SIPRA]

Yeah for sure...from the horse mouth.

I think, you mean from donkey's mouth.

In case of war, if India sits tight and defensive for 15 days, Pakistan will run out of moolah and will be a walkover.

 

[Novice09]

India hasnt been optimal for war for long time - honestly when was it ever? So much time was wasted from the 90s to even the last congress terms. A lot of the things that are being bought were needed back in the 90s. Things make it worse with corruption, red tape, and geopolitics getting into the procurement process. Plus you have these monoply defence entities stifling it's growth, putting out low quality, expensive, and are non innovative, lethargic in nature. Pakistan have been lucky for a long time.

Good news is, things are changing. Maybe not the geopolitic part, now the private sector are on board, and I truly believe they can change how defence and aero are handled in India.

A deal was put on hold to ensure best deal for ITALIAN GANG... and I'm talking about Rafale...
I have witnessed HAL Lucknow employees enjoying in canteen (for hours) during working hours... cannot even imagine that in a private sector entity...

And now things are changing... I never imagined that Pakistan will run to UN on Kashmir... it was always India... crying in UN on terrorism... I'm seeing a completely different environment in India in upcoming 5 years... several private entities are in the game and innovations are prime focus...

I do not see any change.

There is no urgency being shown by this government even for critical procurement.

Kamov-226 , MMRCA, Super Sukhoi, S-400, RAFALE, Tejas MK1A etc.. all are delayed

Kamov-226 : No Idia
MMRCA : new contract... EF, Rafale, f-18 front runner... cost and geopolitics will play decisive role... IAF wants Rafale...
Super Sukhoi : India is not going for Russian systems... armaments will be of Russian origin... you will not heard anything about upgrade untill MMRCA ToT and Uttam Radar are developed...
S-400 : yes it was delayed due to US...
Rafale : 36 are procured... if not chosen (very unlikely) for MMRCA, 36 more would be ordered...
Tejas MK1A : Price negotiations are done... several upgrades are successfully tested...

Do you know that the ongoing trials of naval version of Tejas are just to validate the systems for MK2 and AMCA NAVAL...

It'll take time to optimize any new platform and work out how it'll do in India's doctrine. Whatever the case it's a signed deal and they're coming on board. I dont know wtf AK Antony and congress would've done.

And I dont know what you mean on paper - cause they're already flying in IAF colors

A team of IAF pilots and technicians are already getting trained in France for swift induction... they will hit the ground running...

As far as the FGFA the IAF is the one that doesnt want it. Super Su - I cant speak much on it.

Problem with FGFA is the unwillingness of Russia to share the technological know how with India... and just taking money from India in the name of joint development... therefore, India found it better to walkout from the deal...

I dont know what's going on with this deal. HAL control this deal and it's own LUH. They're trying to manage both programs. Kamov is close to finding all industrial partners. That's the latest news. It's not a ready program to close on.

The main issue raised by the GoI was after sales service and availability of spares... and Russians are building an eco-system for same in India... Plus HAL is ready with LUH...

No, I would call it fair. I went through congress and AK terms, those were pathetic.

UPA 1 and 2 are the most corrupt government I have seen in my life... they put dummies at forefront (like MMS and AK) and looted the country with both hands...

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Educated people in India do know that India is not ready for war. There is nothing knew here.

Only retards like you think educated people know anything. Intelligent people know, not educated ones. Even idiots can be educated.

Secondly, India is not ready for war to avoid causing panic in other countries and hence continue with the current global economy. If India needs to be ready, India can be ready. But it is ill advised as if now.

India hasnt been optimal for war for long time - honestly when was it ever? So much time was wasted from the 90s to even the last congress terms. A lot of the things that are being bought were needed back in the 90s. Things make it worse with corruption, red tape, and geopolitics getting into the procurement process. Plus you have these monoply defence entities stifling it's growth, putting out low quality, expensive, and are non innovative, lethargic in nature. Pakistan have been lucky for a long time.

Good news is, things are changing. Maybe not the geopolitic part, now the private sector are on board, and I truly believe they can change how defence and aero are handled in India.

It is irrelevant whether private sector is there ir not. India is capable of war but chooses to not increase its arms procurement. Wars are always fought on Indigenous resources and technology. India has sufficient technology indigenously like Su30 and Tejas, artillery, MPATGM, nuclear submarine, missiles, satellites etc. But India doesn't have Petroleum. This means that yo be ready for war, first thing India will have to do is start coal liquefaction. If India does that, Middle eastern countries and Pakistan will panic and hence India is not intentionally using coal liquefaction. Without coal liquefaction, India will.not have indigenous fuel to fight war and hence nearby rivals can be assured if peace.

I do not see any change.

There is no urgency being shown by this government even for critical procurement.

Kamov-226 , MMRCA, Super Sukhoi, S-400, RAFALE, Tejas MK1A etc.. all are delayed

What is critical in these? Critical procurement is where critical technology is involved. Things like SSN submarine, Indigenous diesel submarine, MWF and Rafale indigenisation, ATGM, artillery etc.

India can't simply magically make these technology development. Even if developed, they have to undergo user trials in vigorous condition which will take time. India can use half baked items but doesn't see the urgency in doing so by compromising reliability for speed.

India is doing the best it can to develop absolutely robust defence equipments and indigenisation and hence chooses to go slow and steady yo ensure reliability.

S-400 and Rafale are just on paper.

It will take another 5 years to operationalize S-400.

Indian enhancements for Rafale will take another 3 years.

Russia offered S-400 back in 2014 and Modi just sat on the offer for 5 years.

Same is happening with Super Sukhio and FGFA.

IGA for Kamov was signed over a year ago. Everything is ready but Modi will not close the deal.

BJP's performance with regards to defence is pathetic.

All the defence budget we had was spent on OROP to buy the votes and the result is that now there is no money for capital acquisitions.

Low IQ people like you shouldn't talk nonsense. Talking of imported items as some critical need is extremely stupid. War requires quantity and that can come only with indigenisation. India as of now has one generation older items and hence wants to get latest items indigenised instead of adjusting with whatever it has just for speed. This is causing slowness.

Rafale is slowly procured as India wants 100% indigenisation and fitting of Kaveri engine in Rafale. France has agreed to it (France had fitted F404 in Rafale in 1990s and hence can fit Kaveri now) bit is taking time. This is not foolish delay but quite intelligent one. Similarly S400 has some technology transfer and not simply another import. This again takes time.

India doesn't intend to be ready for war as of now bit only be operationally ready for limited skirmish. This is because of international understanding about the panic that may be caused by Indian buildups and trigger preemptive attack or destabilisation of middle east oil supply.

The biggest insurance that Middle east have about Indian non-aggression is that India has not started coal Liquefaction. More than any equipment, it is the fuel that will be most critical in war. So, as long as India doesn't start coal liquefaction, one can simply discount the possibility of India arming up for war.

Indian objectives is yo simply get time without any sabotage and will respond proportionally to any aggression. Only if India notices big build ups, India will go for full war preparation.

several high end US equipment and assembly lines, offsets going India's way that are susceptible for sanctions simply due to that purchase. Hell, Tejas program can have heart attack right now if engines werent supplied. Spares for C17, Super Hercules, Apache, Chinooks and all the offset partners can go to hell, simply due to that purchase. That program wasnt just between India and Russia, that's for sure.

India has completed Kaveri engine and it can have 52kN dry and 81kN wet thrust. France has audited it and cleared it for flight testing to prove its reliability. India can replace F404 with Kaveri by losing about 300-400kg of payload carrying ability in Tejas. India can still have payload of 3.5 ton pn Tejas with Kaveri engine, down from current 4ton. But that is still good enough to fight. India intends to completely stop Tejas MK1 and go for MWF in future with Indigenous 110kN engine. So, India doesn't want to spend extra time fitting Kaveri when the program is anyway nearing and end after 123 plane production

India doesn't get any high end technology from USA. Only important item India gets from USA is F404 and now Kaveri is complete and hence even that threat is minimal. Moreover, India gets some technology transfer from S400. Indian NSA has told that India doesn't buy any imported arms without technology transfer. So, the deal is not simply purchase of some toys

That goes out for both the warring nations. Both of the nations could be ready to wage war within moments.

Do you not remember the time when Lahore was attacked in the middle of the night? Did you not see when the Indians were fully "ready & prepared" and the defenders of Lahore were taken by surprise yet they succeeded in the defence?

The point is, that for both the nations, circumstances for war could be created out of thin air even if none of them is prepared, if Allah has destined the two nations to fight again.

There is a difference between operational preparedness and preparedness to invade and for war of attrition. Both countries are prepared in proportion to each other's preparation in terms of quantity. But India won't go for full preparation and risk panicking middle east and hence risk oil supply and global economy.

There is nothing to gloat about India not being prepared for war or nothing yo be ashamed of. The situation today is mainly dependent on oil trade and hence one has to tread with caution. Oil is concentrated disproportionately in Arabs area and hence some restraint will be shown out of respect for the oil, not respect for the people

 

[khansaheeb]

What do mean by bluffing. India is not planning to wage a war.

Modhitler is planning for war.

 

[KhanBaba2]

Yeah for sure...from the horse mouth.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...ase-better-than-ours-army-vice-chief-4766949/

How much is your fuel reserves. Do you have money to buy fuel. War is a very fuel hungry activity.

 

[Signalian]

How much is your fuel reserves. Do you have money to buy fuel. War is a very fuel hungry activity.

why dont you go ahead and ask KSA regarding fuel supply to Pakistan in case of war

 

[N.Siddiqui]

How much is your fuel reserves. Do you have money to buy fuel. War is a very fuel hungry activity.

Don't deflect and change the goal post...


How much is India's strategic fuel reserves.

As for Pak.

The Petroleum Division has decided to maintain diesel reserves for 45 days and refineries will keep intact the supply chain of jet fuels other than the strategic reserves and more importantly, top management of the PSO has put their commercial oil reserves at the disposal of the forces. Other private oil marketing companies (OMCs) will also put their stocks at forces disposal.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/43...e-smooth-fuel-supply-to-armed-forces-prepared

 

[Novice09]

@Water Car Engineer @PaulSimon

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rus...-in-india-report-2101406?amp=1&akamai-rum=off