Supreme Court rejects pleas against Hafiz Saeed's release

[Loki23]

Yes in a modern society this is a crime. India and Pakistan have an illiterate class that can agitate and follow the footsteps of fanatics with ease.

The organisation to which HS is a leader is a front for the LeT. The organisation may have done several noble acts to curtail the inner intentions but can't the investigators in Pakistan dig deeper? The person who was the founder of LeT is free sends a wrong signal to India in its efforts to normalize relations with Pakistan.

..... and blah blah blah

Do you think the Pakistanis dont know what you have written? i.e., the truth about LeT/JuD etc, its been debated ad nauseaum on this site, on Chowk and other sundry sites where Indian-Pakistani issues take center stage much to the chagrin of the issue under debate. So in my opinion it is pointless even debating this issue. To control Yosemite Sam you need Bugs Bunny (he is vegetarian btw ). The question is if Bharat Sarkar is Chankyan enough.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Do you think the Pakistanis dont know what you have written?

Actually we think his points, and India's arguments, have been refuted.

If you can substantiate them any better than he can then please go ahead.

 

[Loki23]

Actually we think his points, and India's arguments, have been refuted.

If you can substantiate them any better than he can then please go ahead.

By using the judicial route India will never be able to substantiate it in a Pakistani court. Perhaps it might have been more apt to have sent a crateful of mangoes to Yosemite Sam.

 

[ramu]

I am not asking for your philosophical perspective on inflammatory speech - is speech, even inflammatory, a crime, and is this particular brand of speech a crime in Pakistan?

Ya right. So your argument is that this is not a crime in Pakistan. Fair enough. If Pakistan had the will to verify Indian dossiers, it would not be difficult to find a law or sub section in the Pakistani law to put him behind bars. It is a different story if the look out is to be politically correct.

The JuD has challenged the UN designation, courts in Pakistan have found no evidence to support the UN designation, and as I have pointed out in the past, even the EU has had issues with the opaque and unfair manner in which the UN terrorist designations are made.

Why not arrest him on being the head of JuD until UN decides otherwise? If the seriousness of UN is to be taken in to consideration, these are no ordinary charges. And what about the interpol? I know you will now defend by saying UN was under Indian / international pressure. Ya point taken. It was indeed Indian pressure for UN to come up with this.

I personally don't support that 'method' of interrogation and determining guilt in any case, and secondly, even if I did support sch interrogation 'methods', I would not support torturing a Pakistani on India's say so.

That is convenient. Why would India target and accuse one man and give him the credit of Mumbai massacre. Because he is a peace loving Pakistani doing honorable deeds as the head of JuD? There is no smoke without heat or fire.

 

[prodevelopment]

Even if Hafiz Saeed was proven guilty, there is no way he could have been sentenced by the courts in Pakistan. Not because of any bias mind you, but because courts in Pakistan have no jurisdiction over crimes happening in India. India and Pakistan have no extradition treaty either.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

By using the judicial route India will never be able to substantiate it in a Pakistani court. Sam.

Other than a rigged court in India you might not be able to substantiate it anywhere, given the paucity of evidence and Kasab's multiple confessions and retractions, so don't blame Pakistani courts for the lack of a strong case against Hafiz Saeed.

Perhaps it might have been more apt to have sent a crateful of mangoes to Yosemite

Movement on the resolution of the Kashmir dispute will likely suffice.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ya right. So your argument is that this is not a crime in Pakistan. Fair enough. If Pakistan had the will to verify Indian dossiers, it would not be difficult to find a law or sub section in the Pakistani law to put him behind bars. It is a different story if the look out is to be politically correct.

You are assuming every allegation in the Indian dossiers is true - my POV is that those allegations are not true, and Pakistan has not uncovered anything establishing HS's guilt through its own investigations.

Why not arrest him on being the head of JuD until UN decides otherwise? If the seriousness of UN is to be taken in to consideration, these are no ordinary charges. And what about the interpol? I know you will now defend by saying UN was under Indian / international pressure. Ya point taken. It was indeed Indian pressure for UN to come up with this.

The courts have overturned arrest, since no crime has been established against him in a court of law. On what basis should he be arrested?

The UN system, as I pointed out, is flawed since any impartial judicial system will take issue with the fact that terrorism designations were made with no trial or the ability of the accused to defence themselves.

Plus the UN designation does not itself call for arrest, but imposes restrictions on inter-State transit.

That is convenient. Why would India target and accuse one man and give him the credit of Mumbai massacre. Because he is a peace loving Pakistani doing honorable deeds as the head of JuD? There is no smoke without heat or fire.

He is the very popular leader of a group that opposes Indian occupation of Kashmir, and he retains the ability, if things between India and Pakistan go south, to tangibly support the Kashmir insurgency, both through men and material. That is why India wants him out of circulation and IMO is using the Mumbai attacks as a pretext to go after HS.

 

[ramu]

Other than a rigged court in India you might not be able to substantiate it anywhere, given the paucity of evidence and Kasab's multiple confessions and retractions, so don't blame Pakistani courts for the lack of a strong case against Hafiz Saeed.

Death sentence to a terrorist caught red handed with CCTV evidence and multiple witnesses in your book is rigged


A court hearing hidden from the public is fair ! Here is the logic of the day. Thanks for the comedy post.

Movement on the resolution of the Kashmir dispute will likely suffice.

off topic troll by a moderator.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Death sentence to a terrorist caught red handed with CCTV evidence and multiple witnesses in your book is rigged


A court hearing hidden from the public is fair ! Here is the logic of the day. Thanks for the comedy post.

I was referring to the lack of evidence against Hafiz Saeed ... and how the Kasab 'confessions and retractions' would make it very hard to use him as a credible witness in a fair trial, hence a conviction of HS by a 'rigged court'.

off topic troll by a moderator.

Oh, and the Yosemite Sam and mango comments were completely on topic were they?

The gent/lady suggested mangoes might help with HS, I offered that resolving the Kashmir dispute, which is HS's admitted cause, would be a better bet.

Stick to on-topic comments instead of acting like a mod please.

 

[ramu]

You are assuming every allegation in the Indian dossiers is true - my POV is that those allegations are not true, and Pakistan has not uncovered anything establishing HS's guilt through its own investigations.

Can you share the results of the investigation. After so many months where is the output of the investigation conducted by Pakistan?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Can you share the results of the investigation. After so many months where is the output of the investigation conducted by Pakistan?

Going by the decision of the court I would say Pakistan found nothing - isn't that obvious?

 

[ramu]

Going by the decision of the court I would say Pakistan found nothing - isn't that obvious?

Why are several people accused in the Mumbai case facing trial if nothing was found by the investigation. I am asking for results/ output documents of the investigation not the verdict by the investigating authorities on HS.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why are several people accused in the Mumbai case facing trial if nothing was found by the investigation. I am asking for results/ output documents of the investigation not the verdict by the investigating authorities on HS.

Nothing was found in the investigation against HS, which is what the SC decision this thread is focused on talks about.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why are several people accused in the Mumbai case facing trial if nothing was found by the investigation. I am asking for results/ output documents of the investigation not the verdict by the investigating authorities on HS.

Now since India claims there is evidence against HS, perhaps it is YOU who should be telling us what exactly this evidence presented in multiple dossiers is and what makes it so compelling.

 

[ramu]

Nothing was found in the investigation against HS, which is what the SC decision this thread is focused on talks about.

The investigation of Pakistani authorities on the Mumbai massacre is within the realm of the topic being discussed.

AM, If you don't want to answer, thats fine.