Supreme Court larger bench to hear Panama Leaks case

[Danish saleem]

That's why this system of non accountability has to go

no, we need a amendment in law, and if we gave powers to our tax official to investigate outside Pakistan, then they will also start investigating in Dubai, London, which is the problem for PTI, PTI just want specific accountability.

 

[Mansoon]

no, we need a amendment in law, and if we gave powers to our tax official to investigate outside Pakistan, then they will also start investigating in Dubai, London, which is the problem for PTI, PTI just want specific accountability.

PTI can't ammend national laws

 

[Danish saleem]

Sharifs haven't deny the revelations made in Panama leaks, it's just the dates which PM has manipulated. Panama won't comply, unless court is not in mood to decide the case I don't think Panama will be involved.



Sir please get your facts straight. I hope you're familiar with inquisitorial system of proceedings.

It may be mentioned here that the instant petition falls in the category of public interest litigation, which is not adversarial but inquisitorial in nature. It is well settled that this Court has the Const.P. 53/07 & Const.P.83/12 26 jurisdiction to adjudicate upon a case if it falls within the ambit of inquisitorial proceedings. Reference may be made to the cases of Watan Party v. Federation of Pakistan (PLD 2011 SC 997), All Pakistan Newspapers Society v. Federation of Pakistan (PLD 2012 SC 1) and Workers' Party Pakistan v. Federation of Pakistan (PLD 2012 SC 681). Thus, the instant petitions are maintainable and objection is overruled.

http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/user_files/File/ConstP.No.53of2007andConst.P.83of2012.pdf

In case you don't know what I am talking about, here.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/i/inquisitorial-system/

sir,

Petitions were accepted, do u read the petition of PTI? they not attached a single legal legitimate evidence, what they attaching is interviews of sons of NS, news Paper cuttings, which were not a legitimate evidence, and for further investigations Supreme court will refer that case to Institutions, which were not allowed to investigate any thing outside Pakistan.

Let suppose Supreme court refer Investigation to FBR(i am afraid its not possible), FBR need a special powers for investigation, and for that we need to amend the Tax law.

Let suppose Supreme Court refer the Case to FIA, then FIA should need special powers to investigate case outside Pakistan, and for that we need to amend the powers in FIA Act which is Federal Investigation Agency Act, 1974., and for that amendment National assembly have to respond.

PTI can't ammend national laws

by calling Chors dakus, PTI will never able to bring all the parties on table for getting amendment in Law. and even Martial Law not able to investigate any transactions outside Pakistan.

 

[Mansoon]

sir,

Petitions were accepted, do u read the petition of PTI? they not attached a single legal legitimate evidence, what they attaching is interviews of sons of NS, news Paper cuttings, which were not a legitimate evidence, and for further investigations Supreme court will refer that case to Institutions, which were not allowed to investigate any thing outside Pakistan.

Let suppose Supreme court refer Investigation to FBR(i am afraid its not possible), FBR need a special powers for investigation, and for that we need to amend the Tax law.

Let suppose Supreme Court refer the Case to FIA, then FIA should need special powers to investigate case outside Pakistan, and for that we need to amend the powers in FIA Act which is Federal Investigation Agency Act, 1974., and for that amendment National assembly have to respond.



by calling Chors dakus, PTI will never able to bring all the parties on table for getting amendment in Law. and even Martial Law not able to investigate any transactions outside Pakistan.

Why would Chors Dakoos ammend laws that would put them in jail?

 

[Danish saleem]

Why would Chors Dakoos ammend laws that would put them in jail?

if someone is chor daku, present proof against him in court, and fulfill your patriotic duty as a good citizen.

 

[Mansoon]

if someone is chor daku, present proof against him in court, and fulfill your patriotic duty as a good citizen.

But how would courts put them in jail when investigation agencies cant gather evidence because lawmakers wont allow it?

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Nawaz to geya as yousaf raza gilani, My bet is chaudry nisar as Prime minister of Pakistan.
Monopoly is going to end

 

[Emmie]

Petitions were accepted, do u read the petition of PTI? they not attached a single legal legitimate evidence, what they attaching is interviews of sons of NS, news Paper cuttings, which were not a legitimate evidence, and for further investigations Supreme court will refer that case to Institutions, which were not allowed to investigate any thing outside Pakistan

Let suppose Supreme court refer Investigation to FBR(i am afraid its not possible), FBR need a special powers for investigation, and for that we need to amend the Tax law.

Let suppose Supreme Court refer the Case to FIA, then FIA should need special powers to investigate case outside Pakistan, and for that we need to amend the powers in FIA Act which is Federal Investigation Agency Act, 1974., and for that amendment National assembly have to respond.

Yes I have read the petition and it has ample evidences and references, as I said before it's the court which will prepare the evidences since petition's nature is public interest litigation, filed under article 184. PM speech on the floor of the house is on record, this very speech is irrefutable evidence. There is incontrovertible evidence that Sharifs own apartments in London and apartments were purchased between 1993 and 1996 , deeds of apartments are available with petitioners and of course London High Court judgement is absolutely legal. PM in his speech May this year didn't deny the revelations made in Panama papers, though he had a lot clarifications to make, he in fact endorsed what his son(s) said in those not so legal (in your opinion) clippings, paper cuttings etc. So evidence is there and it is undoubtedly admissible unless you deem PM's speech without legal consequences. What you don't realize the fact is that supreme court shall not refer the case to institutions (NAB etc) for decision, it will order them to bring forth the facts or relevant documents for ascertainment, it's the court which is to decide the merits. What's the point of petition under article 184 when the matter which according to you shall be decided by investigative agencies?

It more about facts and less about investigations, the petition specifically focuses on PM disqualification on the basis perjury. You're mixing commission's ToRs with a sub judice constitutional matter, government being self-willed can give poppycock on ToRs but not on constitutional matters. Who told you if investigation is to be made in this case it has to be made abroad?

Lets examine what PM had said in the parliament.
1 -- Gulf Steel in Dubai was established by his late father in 1972 through transferred money after nationalization and sold in 1980 for US Dollars nine (9) Million.

The PM has to explain when funds were transferred out of Pakistan for setting up Gulf Steel in Dubai in the seventies, Dr.Mubashir Hassan, then Minister of Finance completely denies any permission. (investigators don't have to go to Dubai to investigate, the money was transferred from Pakistan)​

2 -- The Mayfair properties in London were purchased from the sale proceeds of Azizia Steel Mills in 2006.

The PM has to explain the property deeds registered in 1993-96 which are available with the petitioner. He has to explain if Sharifs purchased the apartments in 2006 how come they were attached to London High Court 1999 Judgment in Hudabiya paper mills loan case. He has to explain where did he get money from these apartments? He had been filing false statements (tax returns, affidavits along with nomination paper) and for this he's guilty of perjury.​

3-- 10 billion rupees in taxes were paid by the Sharif Group of Companies between October 1993 and April 2016.

Chitta jhoot, out of total 10 billion 92 % represent sales tax, excise duty and other levies which are borne by the consumers.
​

There's a list of lies and false statements which are contrary to already established facts, PM is not supposed to tell lies that too under oath!

​

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

brother,

as a small student of Law, Supreme court ask PTI to submit proofs against their allegations.

Supreme court doesnt need it they can sumon and ask PM to reply on its panama leaks. I know alot about how they are using punjab assets for their own use ànd national assets for their family.. its really sad if supreme court doesnt tske notice and ask people to submit prof against people who holding everything. They wont let it happen.

 

[Danish saleem]

Yes I have read the petition and it has ample evidences and references, as I said before it's the court which will prepare the evidences since petition's nature is public interest litigation, filed under article 184. PM speech on the floor of the house is on record, this very speech is irrefutable evidence. There is incontrovertible evidence that Sharifs own apartments in London and apartments were purchased between 1993 and 1996 , deeds of apartments are available with petitioners and of course London High Court judgement is absolutely legal. PM in his speech May this year didn't deny the revelations made in Panama papers, though he had a lot clarifications to make, he in fact endorsed what his son(s) said in those not so legal (in your opinion) clippings, paper cuttings etc. So evidence is there and it is undoubtedly admissible unless you deem PM's speech without legal consequences. What you don't realize the fact is that supreme court shall not refer the case to institutions (NAB etc) for decision, it will order them to bring forth the facts or relevant documents for ascertainment, it's the court which is to decide the merits. What's the point of petition under article 184 when the matter which according to you shall be decided by investigative agencies?

It more about facts and less about investigations, the petition specifically focuses on PM disqualification on the basis perjury. You're mixing commission's ToRs with a sub judice constitutional matter, government being self-willed can give poppycock on ToRs but not on constitutional matters. Who told you if investigation is to be made in this case it has to be made abroad?

Lets examine what PM had said in the parliament.
1 -- Gulf Steel in Dubai was established by his late father in 1972 through transferred money after nationalization and sold in 1980 for US Dollars nine (9) Million.

The PM has to explain when funds were transferred out of Pakistan for setting up Gulf Steel in Dubai in the seventies, Dr.Mubashir Hassan, then Minister of Finance completely denies any permission. (investigators don't have to go to Dubai to investigate, the money was transferred from Pakistan)​

2 -- The Mayfair properties in London were purchased from the sale proceeds of Azizia Steel Mills in 2006.

The PM has to explain the property deeds registered in 1993-96 which are available with the petitioner. He has to explain if Sharifs purchased the apartments in 2006 how come they were attached to London High Court 1999 Judgment in Hudabiya paper mills loan case. He has to explain where did he get money from these apartments? He had been filing false statements (tax returns, affidavits along with nomination paper) and for this he's guilty of perjury.​

3-- 10 billion rupees in taxes were paid by the Sharif Group of Companies between October 1993 and April 2016.

Chitta jhoot, out of total 10 billion 92 % represent sales tax, excise duty and other levies which are borne by the consumers.
​

There's a list of lies and false statements which are contrary to already established facts, PM is not supposed to tell lies that too under oath!

​

Brother,

I hope PML N will explain and if they failed to explain they have to face the consequences.

But in last when u typed the word jhoot, then i think u and me have to wait till the court decide, but in my opinion still burden of proof is on PTI, who claiming that all amount of money is of corruption.

and i heard from some PML N sources, PM putting some document in which he will going to show the loan which he got from Arab state ruler, let c what he will present in court, and how court will respond to that.

Supreme court doesnt need it they can sumon and ask PM to reply on its panama leaks. I know alot about how they are using punjab assets for their own use ànd national assets for their family.. its really sad if supreme court doesnt tske notice and ask people to submit prof against people who holding everything. They wont let it happen.

brother,

who is not spending the government resources on their politics? including PTI.

 

[Emmie]

Brother,

I hope PML N will explain and if they failed to explain they have to face the consequences.

But in last when u typed the word jhoot, then i think u and me have to wait till the court decide, but in my opinion still burden of proof is on PTI, who claiming that all amount of money is of corruption.

and i heard from some PML N sources, PM putting some document in which he will going to show the loan which he got from Arab state ruler, let c what he will present in court, and how court will respond to that.

Well, things are as obvious as sun in the sky. I am sure unless expediency comes into the play the case will be decided on merit.

For onus on being PTI, I have already clarified that. If you're a law student you can ask your senior where does onus lie in inquisitorial system.

 

[Danish saleem]

Well, things are as obvious as sun in the sky. I am sure unless expediency comes into the play the case will be decided on merit.

For onus on being PTI, I have already clarified that. If you're a law student you can ask your senior where does onus lie in inquisitorial system.

brother,
In inquisitorial System, if you are satisfied with PTI stance, then Pray court will not adopt Inquisitorial System, because in that system court instruct FBR, or FIA, or NAB to investigate, but the problem is these institutions not have powers to investigate outside Pakistan, so if court refer to them, these institution refer back to Supreme court, or if Supreme court form the commission, then that commission will also investigate by using these institutions.

and in my Opinion Supreme court will order to Amend the prevailing laws, and ball will be in the court of Politicians, and these Politicians will try to protect their interests, like PTI never want that Jhangeer tareen or Aleem khan investigated, or PPP not want that Zardari will be covered and PML N will always try to save their leader.

So amend the law for future and lets forgot the past, like IK forgot what he said about Sheikh Rasheed

 

[Emmie]

brother,
In inquisitorial System, if you are satisfied with PTI stance, then Pray court will not adopt Inquisitorial System, because in that system court instruct FBR, or FIA, or NAB to investigate, but the problem is these institutions not have powers to investigate outside Pakistan, so if court refer to them, these institution refer back to Supreme court, or if Supreme court form the commission, then that commission will also investigate by using these institutions.

and in my Opinion Supreme court will order to Amend the prevailing laws, and ball will be in the court of Politicians, and these Politicians will try to protect their interests, like PTI never want that Jhangeer tareen or Aleem khan investigated, or PPP not want that Zardari will be covered and PML N will always try to save their leader.

So amend the law for future and lets forgot the past, like IK forgot what he said about Sheikh Rasheed

No offense but you're one hopeless lad and I doubt you even bother to read explanations made in replies, it's pretty useless to waste energy. Good day!

 

[Sergi]

Too little too late... Nothing is going to happen it is just an attention diversion technique...Army should act to protect Pakistan from traitors and patwaries

Again non of my business but I wonder why you guise always want Army to save you country from politicians ????
- Why there is no faith in court ???
- And if the political party is in power it is sent there by people of Pak by voting for them.
- Why not take them down in next election instead of asking army to take over ???
- and if you guise are so unhappy about the democracy then why you don't try something else like mix government.
Like Army to handle "Defence, FR , Home and finance " and political leadership given the charge of welfare and local governance. And let the courts have residual power. More like 1935 GoI act by British Parliment

 

[Shot-Caller]

Again non of my business but I wonder why you guise always want Army to save you country from politicians ????
- Why there is no faith in court ???
- And if the political party is in power it is sent there by people of Pak by voting for them.
- Why not take them down in next election instead of asking army to take over ???
- and if you guise are so unhappy about the democracy then why you don't try something else like mix government.
Like Army to handle "Defence, FR , Home and finance " and political leadership given the charge of welfare and local governance. And let the courts have residual power. More like 1935 GoI act by British Parliment

First of all the judiciary here is quite corrupt itself. We don't have faith in this judicial system where selective justice is served. Secondly our elections are not 100% fair. Anyone who has seen election day activity knows there are more than a 100 ways to rig and win your seat by force. So you can not exactly call these people our true representatives since alot of them have reached the assembly seats by rigging. India has biometric voting so there's no chance of rigging and the whole country has to accept who ever has been elected. Unfortunately its not like that here. So the only powerful institution left is army. People trust army and they have served us whenever we needed them. We don;t exactly want dictatorship but if the so called democratic government acts like they are kings and uses police force on people who want to protest, we would prefer a declared dictatorship than a disguised one.