Supermaneuverability

[Mughal-Prince]

My Favorite Thread

 

[Hasnain2009]

Supermaneuverability

YouTube - LCA Tejas flying display Aero india 2009

so the high G turn started from 0:38 and finished at 1:09, It took 30 seconds.

Take this vid positively ! Thanks!

 

[Hasnain2009]

YouTube - 2008 Blue Angels Homecoming - F-16 Fighting Falcon Demo

wow...what a beauty ! It took 17 sec for F-16 to complete 360 degree high G turn! Thanks for posting!

 

[Super Falcon]

so what do you think that JF 17 is better than F 16 in manuverability

 

[SQ8]

AS far as the tejas is concerned you will see that like the Mirage 2k it can point its nose rapidly initially which is what you call a high instantaneous turn rate(and can mean a first shot in a WVR engagement)...once established in the turn though, it struggles to maintain it, which is in part to its pathetic aspect ratio and in part to the Pure delta's inability to maintain sufficient lift(hence the nose up orientation throughout the turn.
The Jf-17 will be outclassed in instantaneous rate upto a certain mach number after which it should be comparable to Tejas.. but will literally kick the Tejas's *** in a turning fight if the Tejas pilot misses his shot.

And I was there on the ground that day on 23rd August 2007, and the turn looked a lot less than 1400 feet that day, although it might be the euphoria of being the amongst the first to see the Thunder's display.
(note to self: Choppers leave the most putrid smell of gasoline as they fly by)

 

[razgriz19]

wow...what a beauty ! It took 17 sec for F-16 to complete 360 degree high G turn! Thanks for posting!

that video is the best out there!
that USAF pilot handled f-16 beautifuly.....just look at those sharp turns and the maneuvers that he was pulling...

 

[Super Falcon]

but noone going to beat SU 37 in this field

 

[razgriz19]

^ agreed!!!

 

[Dark Angel]

AS far as the tejas is concerned you will see that like the Mirage 2k it can point its nose rapidly initially which is what you call a high instantaneous turn rate(and can mean a first shot in a WVR engagement)...once established in the turn though, it struggles to maintain it, which is in part to its pathetic aspect ratio and in part to the Pure delta's inability to maintain sufficient lift(hence the nose up orientation throughout the turn.
The Jf-17 will be outclassed in instantaneous rate upto a certain mach number after which it should be comparable to Tejas.. but will literally kick the Tejas's *** in a turning fight if the Tejas pilot misses his shot.

And I was there on the ground that day on 23rd August 2007, and the turn looked a lot less than 1400 feet that day, although it might be the euphoria of being the amongst the first to see the Thunder's display.
(note to self: Choppers leave the most putrid smell of gasoline as they fly by)

well said, but a lot depends on the radar too my friend

 

[anathema]

well said, but a lot depends on the radar too my friend

And how will a radar help in a turning fight ? If its a turning fight then it means it is in WVR range, the radar's of both the aircrafts will be on a equal terms...
Santro is right, in a turning fight LCA will be outclassed by the likes of F16, JF17 , etc...so would be a Mirage...its the Legacy of Mirage....

As fighter pilots often say , the best pilots will be those who can make the enemy fight according to his own terms....so turning (sustained turn) should be the last thing LCA should go for ....

Cheers

 

[anathema]

This is the recent Su 30 MKI in Vayu shakti....some of the captures are from UAV...Enjoy !!

 

[ptldM3]

very nice indeed....but again as you see that Sukhoi loses its balance when performing extreme maneuvers and falls down (like free fall).....which is a negative point as the AC is highly vulnerable to incoming threat in these moments.....( I think the same observation was also mentioned by US pilot in redflag debriefing)

Wrong, the pilot can recover after the cobra and hold the nose at any pitch he wishes, what you see in the video is the pilot pulling back on the stick and leting the aircraft tumble. Remember, these aircraft arn't only relying on traditional control surfaces such as horizontal stabilizers but TVC. This is where things change when a traditional aircraft stalls out or attempts a low speed maneuver, traditional aircraft have little control when in a stall because they rely on air currents in order for the control surfaces to function, TVC allows the pilot full control even in zero airspeed, this is where the cobra comes in; if the pilots performes an aggressive cobra maneuver the aircraft will build momentum, what TVC allowes the pilot to do is counteract this force by simply pulling forward on the stick and regulating power. With 3D TVC the pilots even has yaw control at zero airspeed, meaning he is in full control of the aircraft.

 

[Hasnain2009]

 

[SQ8]

Wrong, the pilot can recover after the cobra and hold the nose at any pitch he wishes, what you see in the video is the pilot pulling back on the stick and leting the aircraft tumble. Remember, these aircraft arn't only relying on traditional control surfaces such as horizontal stabilizers but TVC. This is where things change when a traditional aircraft stalls out or attempts a low speed maneuver, traditional aircraft have little control when in a stall because they rely on air currents in order for the control surfaces to function, TVC allows the pilot full control even in zero airspeed, this is where the cobra comes in; if the pilots performes an aggressive cobra maneuver the aircraft will build momentum, what TVC allows the pilot to do is counteract this force by simply pulling forward on the stick and regulating power. With 3D TVC the pilots even has yaw control at zero airspeed, meaning he is in full control of the aircraft.

The pilot may have yaw control but he is still falling out of the sky, even with a T/W ratio grater than one the aircraft needs lift to maintain its position in the vertical plane. So while the TVC will allow the fighter to position its nose for a missile or guns kill, it is still falling and without energy..An easy kill for any other aircraft in the vicinity, the value of TVC greatly reduces in a multiple aircraft fight.

 

[ptldM3]

The pilot may have yaw control but he is still falling out of the sky,.

The pilot is in full control...again i repeat, the pilot is in full control. If the pilot wishes he can recover at 180 degrees or he may choose to keep going.

even with a T/W ratio grater than one the aircraft needs lift to maintain its position in the vertical plane..

And that's exactly what a greater T/W ration does, it provides lift, btw an aircraft has no lift going vertical atleast not on its control surfaces, instead it's trust provides its lift.

So while the TVC will allow the fighter to position its nose for a missile or guns kill, it is still falling and without energy..

No pilots is going to perform a cobra where the aircraft is tumbling, a cobra is meant to bleed off speed quickly and contrary to what some people think the pilot is in full control, he can regulate his pitch and by regulating pitch he can regulate/decrees his airspeed.


Watch 2:21-2:27 this is what a cobra is supose to be not that fancy tumbling airshow stunt.

Case in point, if two fighters merges the one that overshoots is dead, in this case it would not be the SU-33.

.An easy kill for any other aircraft in the vicinity, the value of TVC greatly reduces in a multiple aircraft fight.

Of course that's why the F-22 has TVC TVC does alot more than just the cobra; it inhances the aircraft's overall performance.