Sultan Baybars - From Slave to Saviour of Islam

[AlKardai]

Hulagu? The Mongol?

No, Hulagu died via illness

 

[CodeforFood]

Was george washington building a country for Christians? Yet, the people residing in the country he built were (until some timea go) overwhelmingly Christians. So, did he do the christian' a favor? Or since it was not his intention to do some christian jihad, he shouldn't be credited?

Going by your logic, perhaps even the later Rashidun were not entirely motivated by serving Islam because there was infighting and power struggle involved.

My point is not what the outcome was, but how People get to what they want. Yes Baybars was a brilliant tactician and strategist too, but keep in mind that he was a human being and an opportunist too. Your analogy doesn't make sense to me. (fyi... Baybars is one of my favorite generals, he did a lot more than just taking part in defeating a depleted mongol army, which was (net, net,) a positive outcome). Remember the good things with the bad.

 

[Path-Finder]

...and Nooruddin Zengi. he is the one who actually laid the foundation of a strong state that Salahuddin built upon later. and it was Nooruddin Zengi who sent salahuddin's uncle to act as minister to the Fatimi ruler of Egypt to keep hin under his control. most people dont even there was someone named Zengi.

Zengi died due to his lifestyle. his only contribution is that he was a good military strategist.

 

[S.Y.A]

Zengi died due to his lifestyle. his only contribution is that he was a good military strategist.

not his only contribution. he unified syria, and was an efficient and able administrator. salahuddin built upon the structure left by him. what he did was weaken the crusaders, build a good military, and setup a proper state. absolutely necessary for a victory against crusaders.

also, no nooruddin = no salahuddin. and no ayyubids = no mameluks. simple as that.

 

[aziqbal]

The big lesson with Qutuz, Baibars and the Mamluks is not just that they were heroes, but that they committed to doing what was Islamically right, at any cost. They didn't defeat the Mongols, but just an advance force of the larger Mongol Army. Yet, when given the chance to surrender, they didn't; they knew that any victory would be pyrrhic at best, yet because it was an Islamic obligation to stand up to the Mongols, they did so. For reasons all beyond them, it was at this moment the Mongols started to fracture and, in turn, they couldn't avenge Ain Jalut.

It's an important lesson for us, especially from a political standpoint. Many times, we too devolve into deciding what to do based on harm and benefit, and that too based on our limited understanding of the wider situation. In turn, we compromise on what is right and, inevitably, pay for it down the line.

I think your history is very weak brother

the Mamluks did what no one ever had managed to do until that point in history

and that was to defeat the Mongol Heavy Calvary in close combat

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

I think your history is very weak brother

the Mamluks did what no one ever had managed to do until that point in history

and that was to defeat the Mongol Heavy Calvary in close combat

I should really read about Mongols
Every time some one mentions them,it looks like they were something out of this world creature
If Mongols had some extra ordinary capabilities,i do not know why there is no Mongolian Legacy (like their religion,art, literature,etc) in the countries they conquered.
Like Mughals left behind them a great work of architecture in subcontinent.

 

[LeGenD]

Berke Khan is the savior of Islam. It's frustrating how very few Muslims know about him.

This.

Kitbuqa was but one commander serving Hulagu Khan. Kitbuqa took Mamluke's bait and was defeated.

Berke Khan made it impractical for Hulagu Khan to bring his true power to bear against the Mamluks.

Berke Khan: The Savior of the Muslim Civilization

Hulagu ordered the execution Abbasid Caliph Al-Musta'sim Billah and with this a golden age of Muslim Civilization met its end.

www.globalvillagespace.com

The ignorance is due to lack of research and education.

I think your history is very weak brother

the Mamluks did what no one ever had managed to do until that point in history

and that was to defeat the Mongol Heavy Calvary in close combat

Kitbuqa took Mamluke bait and lost the battle because he was acting on emotions. Sometimes emotions can get the better of one's judgement.

Historically, Mongols relied much less on close combat and heavy cavalry to win battles. Mongolians found strength in mobility and skillful application of hit-and-run tactics coupled with deception if necessary.

Many seemingly well-prepared armies failed to defeat a Mongolian force because their speciality was in close combat and could not keep up with Mongolian level of mobility and hit-and-run tactics for long.

Nevertheless, WE should acknowledge Berke Khan's role in saving Muslims as noted above.

 

[retaxis]

This.

Kitbuqa was but one commander serving Hulagu Khan. Kitbuqa took Mamluke's bait and was defeated.

Berke Khan made it impractical for Hulagu Khan to bring his true power to bear against the Mamluks.

Berke Khan: The Savior of the Muslim Civilization

Hulagu ordered the execution Abbasid Caliph Al-Musta'sim Billah and with this a golden age of Muslim Civilization met its end.

www.globalvillagespace.com

The ignorance is due to lack of research and education.



Kitbuqa took Mamluke bait and lost the battle because he was acting on emotions. Sometimes emotions can get the better of one's judgement.

Historically, Mongols relied much less on close combat and heavy cavalry to win battles. Mongolians found strength in mobility and skillful application of hit-and-run tactics coupled with deception if necessary.

Many seemingly well-prepared armies failed to defeat a Mongolian force because their speciality was in close combat and could not keep up with Mongolian level of mobility and hit-and-run tactics for long.

Nevertheless, WE should acknowledge Berke Khan's role in saving Muslims as noted above.

I guess to the Mongols Berke is probably seen more as a traitor for fighting and turning on his own people

Great empires are always undone from the inside

 

[waz]

I guess to the Mongols Berke is probably seen more as a traitor for fighting and turning on his own people

Great empires are always undone from the inside

Berke and the entire Golden Horde were Muslim but the Mongols did not consider them traitors, and drew strength from them as perhaps the most battle hardened and successful force the Mongols had. After the battle of Terek river where Hulugu’s army was obliterated the ethnic Mongol troops were shown mercy. The rest drowned after fleeing the onslaught of the Golden Horde. Their Armenian and Georgian troops were slaughtered.
Hulugu himself came under criticism for his pandering to the Nestorian Christian
community, who his wife and mother belonged to.

 

[MastanKhan]

The big lesson with Qutuz, Baibars and the Mamluks is not just that they were heroes, but that they committed to doing what was Islamically right, at any cost. They didn't defeat the Mongols, but just an advance force of the larger Mongol Army. Yet, when given the chance to surrender, they didn't; they knew that any victory would be pyrrhic at best, yet because it was an Islamic obligation to stand up to the Mongols, they did so. For reasons all beyond them, it was at this moment the Mongols started to fracture and, in turn, they couldn't avenge Ain Jalut.

It's an important lesson for us, especially from a political standpoint. Many times, we too devolve into deciding what to do based on harm and benefit, and that too based on our limited understanding of the wider situation. In turn, we compromise on what is right and, inevitably, pay for it down the line.

Hi,

A 3rd rate mongol general was at AinJalut---and the Khan was on way to Karakum or at Karakum to settle the selection of a new Khan---.

It is just like the mongol armies had to withdraw due to the death of the Great khan---just before they were about to lay a final blow to the christian nations---.

Berke and the entire Golden Horde were Muslim but the Mongols did not consider them traitors, and drew strength from them as perhaps the most battle hardened and successful force the Mongols had. After the battle of Terek river where Hulugu’s army was obliterated the ethnic Mongol troops were shown mercy. The rest drowned after fleeing the onslaught of the Golden Horde. Their Armenian and Georgian troops were slaughtered.
Hulugu himself came under criticism for his pandering to the Nestorian Christian
community, who his wife and mother belonged to.

Hi,

Ther mongol leader chose the religion of those whop they ruled. Kublai changed his religion as well as did Berke Khan.

Hulugu was supposedly married to a christian woman prior to the conquest of muslim lands and his relationship with the christians was not hidden either.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hi,

A 3rd rate mongol general was at AinJalut---and the Khan was on way to Karakum or at Karakum to settle the selection of a new Khan---.

It is just like the mongol armies had to withdraw due to the death of the Great khan---just before they were about to lay a final blow to the christian nations---.


Hi,

Ther mongol leader chose the religion of those whop they ruled. Kublai changed his religion as well as did Berke Khan.

Hulugu was supposedly married to a christian woman prior to the conquest of muslim lands and his relationship with the christians was not hidden either.

Exactly. We don't need to venerate either Baibars or Qutuz for their skills on the battlefield. They were good, sure, but they defeated an advance force of the Mongols, and in a pyrrhic victory at best.

And yes, they also had their flaws, be it in character or in how they handled their internal political affairs. Yet, they kept a red line on certain matters (like the Mongols and Crusaders), and refused to compromise on those red lines, whatever the risk or cost may be. That was the point I was trying to land at; a lesson for us Pakistanis who tend to accept generals who compromise, hide, and compromise some more...dignity and integrity be damned (*cough* Musharraf *cough* *cough*)

 

[Path-Finder]

not his only contribution. he unified syria, and was an efficient and able administrator. salahuddin built upon the structure left by him. what he did was weaken the crusaders, build a good military, and setup a proper state. absolutely necessary for a victory against crusaders.

also, no nooruddin = no salahuddin. and no ayyubids = no mameluks. simple as that.

lol, how about crediting the discovery of penicillin to zengi as well?

 

[S.Y.A]

lol, how about crediting the discovery of penicillin to zengi as well?

ok genius

 

[Path-Finder]

ok genius

standing on the shoulders of giants is one thing but you are giving credit after his death. no one has a reach beyond the grave.

 

[S.Y.A]

standing on the shoulders of giants is one thing but you are giving credit after his death. no one has a reach beyond the grave.

you have to understand his contributions in the context of that time. muslim kingdoms in syria were divided, crusaders had taken over a sizeable portion of levant. they had become a major power and did as they pleased. controlled the seas, the coastal region of levant, and had a strong navy. the fatimids in the egypt were weak. the muslim rulers used to fight among themselves and even ally with the crusaders as the need arose.

imagine india when the british were taking hold and the nawabs used to fight each other. court intrigue was at an all time high. what would have happened if one of the nawabs had been strong enough to drive the british out of a major portion of india, or had at least significantly weakened their position, unify feuding states, and had established a good administrative system?