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Sukkar: ISI office under attack

hehe just repeating what I see and hear on daily bases. people are really fed up with this constant terrorism adn say that either Pakistani state should surrender to Taliban or ask someone else to do their job because our army, police and judiciary lacks the will and ability to defeat the taliban

Mr.Irfan Baloch,hope is stronger then fear,yes few of us are in a state of despair,yet still,majority still lives with a hope to overcome these problems one day.
The objectives of terrorists are crystal clear:To produce trust deficiency between subject and forces,to give an impression that our forces are failed to provide us safe guard,which is so not true,these negative mindsets are ignoring the past performance of our Army.
Pakistan is facing damage because of pseudo policies of our government,once we create correct policies and work on it,then I am hopeful that we will get rid of terrorist's nexus Inshallah,but for this we need resources,proper policy,proper implementation and sincere mindsets.
yes,there may be expected lapses in army's plan as well,but loosing hope is not a solution,trust me,such empty mindsets are way deadly for us,then war itself.
 
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Why should the Pakistani people condemn Taliban?

Pakistani people have been told for long by the establishment that jehad is their duty, and mujahids the ultimate patriots.

Werent these the same Pakistani people who jumped with joy every time there was a bomb blast in India(not even just Kashmir) and were told this is jehad and Mujahidden are fighting the kafirs.

Werent these the same Pakistani people who said alhamdullilah when Taliban forced Burqa on Afghan women.

Today when its come back to bite Pakistan in the a$$, why should they start blaming the mujahids?

Mr.Contrarian,honestly speaking,I don't understand that why are you relating the acts of terrorism to jihad?Jihad means a holy war which is launched for the sake of defense and protection against opposing regime.If in past,this concept of holy war is misused by some mindsets,that will not change the actual conception and meaning of jihad 1400 years ago.

And nobody jumped with joy in Pakistan when heard of bomb-blast in India etc,and if you claim,then such mindsets are always condemned, sorry to say but please do not derail the thread and do not turn this place into war mongering area,
 
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When the country’s most prestigious and globally highly rated spy agency that is supposed to be most heavily guarded becomes the target of repeated terrorist attacks there remains little doubt in anyone’s mind that these non-state actors can strike at will wherever they want and make a mockery of the writ of the state.

Over the years, the militant outfits have given ample proof of their literally unlimited reach; they have made it a routine to carry out suicide bombings and shooting down both security personnel and ordinary people, more particularly in KPK and Balochistan. The damage so far would run into billions of rupees and loss of life into thousands.

The ISI have been struck several times. Last Wednesday, the agency’s office at Sukkur came under attack. As an explosive-laden vehicle exploded just outside the ISI’s office there, five gunmen appeared on the scene leading to an exchange of fire that resulted in the death of an intelligence agent, a government employee and four attackers. To recall, the terrorists struck at ISI’s headquarters at Lahore in May 2009; at Peshawar in November the same year; and at Multan about a month later, causing large-scale death and destruction. And to cap it all, they once stormed the GHQ inflicting a heavy loss of life.

Even former COAS and President Pervez Musharraf managed to escape being hit by the skin of his teeth, as his motorcade was passing through the most sensitive area of Rawalpindi. And at that time he was at the peak of his power. The common citizenry would naturally feel utterly exposed to the evil designs of these outlaws.

It would be an understatement to say that attacks on the bastions of military establishment are a matter of embarrassment to the army. Actually, they bring out its downright incompetence. After all, its intelligence wing is mandated to gather information in advance about such incidents when they are at the planning stage so that adequate measures could be taken to forestall them. Sadly and much to the suffering and misfortune of the people, ISI has been caught napping, and repeatedly, even protecting its own self, let alone guarding the common man who, it is a thousand pity, runs the fearful gauntlet so frequently.

The situation leaves no room for complacency. The agency must be overhauled and its shortcomings pinpointed in the national interest and to save the country from the spreading plague of terrorism.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/266983-terror-hits-isi.html#ixzz2a8i46CLY

When the country’s most prestigious and globally highly rated spy agency that is supposed to be most heavily guarded becomes the target of repeated terrorist attacks there remains little doubt in anyone’s mind that these non-state actors can strike at will wherever they want and make a mockery of the writ of the state.

Over the years, the militant outfits have given ample proof of their literally unlimited reach; they have made it a routine to carry out suicide bombings and shooting down both security personnel and ordinary people, more particularly in KPK and Balochistan. The damage so far would run into billions of rupees and loss of life into thousands.

The ISI have been struck several times. Last Wednesday, the agency’s office at Sukkur came under attack. As an explosive-laden vehicle exploded just outside the ISI’s office there, five gunmen appeared on the scene leading to an exchange of fire that resulted in the death of an intelligence agent, a government employee and four attackers. To recall, the terrorists struck at ISI’s headquarters at Lahore in May 2009; at Peshawar in November the same year; and at Multan about a month later, causing large-scale death and destruction. And to cap it all, they once stormed the GHQ inflicting a heavy loss of life.

Even former COAS and President Pervez Musharraf managed to escape being hit by the skin of his teeth, as his motorcade was passing through the most sensitive area of Rawalpindi. And at that time he was at the peak of his power. The common citizenry would naturally feel utterly exposed to the evil designs of these outlaws.

It would be an understatement to say that attacks on the bastions of military establishment are a matter of embarrassment to the army. Actually, they bring out its downright incompetence. After all, its intelligence wing is mandated to gather information in advance about such incidents when they are at the planning stage so that adequate measures could be taken to forestall them. Sadly and much to the suffering and misfortune of the people, ISI has been caught napping, and repeatedly, even protecting its own self, let alone guarding the common man who, it is a thousand pity, runs the fearful gauntlet so frequently.

The situation leaves no room for complacency. The agency must be overhauled and its shortcomings pinpointed in the national interest and to save the country from the spreading plague of terrorism.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/266983-terror-hits-isi.html#ixzz2a8i46CLY
 
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Mr.Contrarian,honestly speaking,I don't understand that why are you relating the acts of terrorism to jihad?Jihad means a holy war which is launched for the sake of defense and protection against opposing regime.If in past,this concept of holy war is misused by some mindsets,that will not change the actual conception and meaning of jihad 1400 years ago.

And nobody jumped with joy in Pakistan when heard of bomb-blast in India etc,and if you claim,then such mindsets are always condemned, sorry to say but please do not derail the thread and do not turn this place into war mongering area,

It is not me who is linking acts of terrorism to Jehad. It is what the Pakistani's have already linked.
When the terrorists explode , they yell allahu akbar. When Al qaida takes responsiblity for the attacks - they dont fail to mention that it is jehad and all muslims must come together to support it.

And Slav, while you might not be one who jumped with joy, till 9/11, any bomb blast in India was projected as a jehad.

Pakistan Army/Establishment has NEVER been shy of using religion to aid Pakistan in its fight. If you want you can even open an advertisement given by PA to donate money to aid during its war with India calling it a jehad.

Now please tell, would a Pakistani war with India be a 'holy war'. If not, then why was it called jehad.
 
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It is not me who is linking acts of terrorism to Jehad. It is what the Pakistani's have already linked.
When the terrorists explode , they yell allahu akbar. When Al qaida takes responsiblity for the attacks - they dont fail to mention that it is jehad and all muslims must come together to support it.

And Slav, while you might not be one who jumped with joy, till 9/11, any bomb blast in India was projected as a jehad.

Pakistan Army/Establishment has NEVER been shy of using religion to aid Pakistan in its fight. If you want you can even open an advertisement given by PA to donate money to aid during its war with India calling it a jehad.

Now please tell, would a Pakistani war with India be a 'holy war'. If not, then why was it called jehad.

My dear contrarian..the advertisement of which are you talking about,I request you to kindly post me a link as an example,first of all..
 
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My dear contrarian..the advertisement of which are you talking about,I request you to kindly post me a link as an example,first of all..

Rare-newspapers-Rare-Edition-of-Dawn-December-17-1971-War-Till-Victory-Yahyas-pledge-Old-and-rare-newspapers.jpg



So tell me, is a war between India and Pakistan a 'holy war'?

Last but not the least, Pakistan has always used religion as a tool against India and Afghanistan.
Pakistan has to its level best funded Islamic insurgencies and terrorist groups in India...and all of this was always packaged as Jihad at home.
Terrorist organizations were allowed recruitment for jihad.

I dont know how old you are, but please feel free to ask some of the older Pakistani members who are not liars...like Oscar, Niaz, Muse among others.

As I said, Pakistani's have for a long time loved the sounds of jehad in other countries, why should they start changing their views because the bombs are now exploding in Pakistan instead of Pakistan's neighbours.
 
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Rare-newspapers-Rare-Edition-of-Dawn-December-17-1971-War-Till-Victory-Yahyas-pledge-Old-and-rare-newspapers.jpg



So tell me, is a war between India and Pakistan a 'holy war'?

Last but not the least, Pakistan has always used religion as a tool against India and Afghanistan.
Pakistan has to its level best funded Islamic insurgencies and terrorist groups in India...and all of this was always packaged as Jihad at home.
Terrorist organizations were allowed recruitment for jihad.

I dont know how old you are, but please feel free to ask some of the older Pakistani members who are not liars...like Oscar, Niaz, Muse among others.

As I said, Pakistani's have for a long time loved the sounds of jehad in other countries, why should they start changing their views because the bombs are now exploding in Pakistan instead of Pakistan's neighbours.

Mr.contrarian..first of all I thank you for researching and posting link.
second,I should remind you that Pakistan is a Muslim state and thus Islamic values and terminologies will be reflected in our every field of life,even it has great impact in our language.
As mentioned earlier,that Jihad is actually a synonym for warfare.
If you look at the newspaper which you have posted then you will find out that 'yahya's pledge' is written on it,which means that this request for funding was launched by Pakistani army in 1965-71 when Mr.Yahya was president.
As Indian intentions were to attack Pakistan in 1965-71,that is why term Jihad was used against India,not because killing an Indian is considered as holy,or because of hatred with them,but because Pakistan army needed funds to have weapons,if you even analyze operation trident in 1971 then you will find out that Pakistan navy was not even capable to see at night,and so the same goes in 1960s....that is why.....let me tell you that if any country will launch an attack against Pakistan then we will use same term so,for India was in offensive mode and Pakistan needed funds,that is why it used term jihad,which is true as by definition of Jihad--to launch a war for defensive purposes.


Now talibans are twisting the term jihad and using it for their purposes,they are killing women and children and people of any belief thus abusing the term jihad,that is why we are against them and denying their definition of jihad,which is contrary to Islamic definition of warfare
 
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Mr.contrarian..first of all I thank you for researching and posting link.
second,I should remind you that Pakistan is a Muslim state and thus Islamic values and terminologies will be reflected in our every field of life,even it has great impact in our language.
As mentioned earlier,that Jihad is actually a synonym for warfare.
If you look at the newspaper which you have posted then you will find out that 'yahya's pledge' is written on it,which means that this request for funding was launched by Pakistani army in 1965-71 when Mr.Yahya was president.
As Indian intentions were to attack Pakistan in 1965-71,that is why term Jihad was used against India,not because killing an Indian is considered as holy,or because of hatred with them,but because Pakistan army needed funds to have weapons,if you even analyze operation trident in 1971 then you will find out that Pakistan navy was not even capable to see at night,and so the same goes in 1960s....that is why.....let me tell you that if any country will launch an attack against Pakistan then we will use same term so,for India was in offensive mode and Pakistan needed funds,that is why it used term jihad,which is true as by definition of Jihad--to launch a war for defensive purposes.


Now talibans are twisting the term jihad and using it for their purposes,they are killing women and children and people of any belief thus abusing the term jihad,that is why we are against them and denying their definition of jihad,which is contrary to Islamic definition of warfare

Just about the bold part- Jihad is a synoym for warfare. That is just a 'bald' statement.
Warfare against whom? How should that War be waged? Where is the War to be waged? What are the Rules of that Warfare? What will be a Righteous Victory in that War?
 
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Just about the bold part- Jihad is a synoym for warfare. That is just a 'bald' statement.
Warfare against whom? How should that War be waged? Where is the War to be waged? What are the Rules of that Warfare? What will be a Righteous Victory in that War?

Off topic post..
This what you think,not me,second,stop derailing the thread,if you are interested to discuss this then go ahead and open a new thread,all your questions will be answered there.
 
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Mr.contrarian..first of all I thank you for researching and posting link.
Thankyou. It did take time to search for that image again!

second,I should remind you that Pakistan is a Muslim state and thus Islamic values and terminologies will be reflected in our every field of life,even it has great impact in our language.
As mentioned earlier,that Jihad is actually a synonym for warfare.
If you look at the newspaper which you have posted then you will find out that 'yahya's pledge' is written on it,which means that this request for funding was launched by Pakistani army in 1965-71 when Mr.Yahya was president.
As Indian intentions were to attack Pakistan in 1965-71,that is why term Jihad was used against India,not because killing an Indian is considered as holy,or because of hatred with them,but because Pakistan army needed funds to have weapons,if you even analyze operation trident in 1971 then you will find out that Pakistan navy was not even capable to see at night,and so the same goes in 1960s....that is why.....let me tell you that if any country will launch an attack against Pakistan then we will use same term so,for India was in offensive mode and Pakistan needed funds,that is why it used term jihad,which is true as by definition of Jihad--to launch a war for defensive purposes.
That is exactly my point.

You first mentioned that jihad is a 'holy war'. And consequently the word cannot be used lightly - because its connotations are huge.

Then you mention that Pakistan is an Islamic country and so it would use such terms would be used in Pakistani part of life.

But you also agree that Pakistan fighting a war with India is not a 'holy war'.

Then you get my point perfectly.
Pakistan has been using Islam to get its way in the globe for ages. Pakistan has used and abused the term jehad for its worldly gains for decades...jehad has been packaged and sold to the Pakistani people for everything - from war with India, to Afghanistan resistance and what not.


Now talibans are twisting the term jihad and using it for their purposes,they are killing women and children and people of any belief thus abusing the term jihad,that is why we are against them and denying their definition of jihad,which is contrary to Islamic definition of warfare
Jehad is now simply synonymous to any attack that takes place in the name of Islam - the Taliban believe that they are waging a righteous holy war, the Pakistani's are taking pains to deny that since they themselves have used the term jihad when it suited them perfectly.

Atleast just accept in the end, that Pakistani Establishment(Army) for long used & abused Islam to get its political objectives...Pakistan sold terrorism in India in the name of Jihad, justified to its own population about it by filling their minds about Muslims being oppressed in India.

Today the tables have reversed.
 
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Thankyou. It did take time to search for that image again!


That is exactly my point.

You first mentioned that jihad is a 'holy war'. And consequently the word cannot be used lightly - because its connotations are huge.

Then you mention that Pakistan is an Islamic country and so it would use such terms would be used in Pakistani part of life.

But you also agree that Pakistan fighting a war with India is not a 'holy war'.

Then you get my point perfectly.
Pakistan has been using Islam to get its way in the globe for ages. Pakistan has used and abused the term jehad for its worldly gains for decades...jehad has been packaged and sold to the Pakistani people for everything - from war with India, to Afghanistan resistance and what not.



Jehad is now simply synonymous to any attack that takes place in the name of Islam - the Taliban believe that they are waging a righteous holy war, the Pakistani's are taking pains to deny that since they themselves have used the term jihad when it suited them perfectly.

Atleast just accept in the end, that Pakistani Establishment(Army) for long used & abused Islam to get its political objectives...Pakistan sold terrorism in India in the name of Jihad, justified to its own population about it by filling their minds about Muslims being oppressed in India.

Today the tables have reversed.

Not in case of 1965-71 Mr.Contrarian,I have already mentioned that Pakistan have well implemented the usage of term 'jihad' I don't find it abuse of term jihad,but proper implementation.
where as if you talk about funding of all those so-called terrorits in INDIA,then sorry to say that they are accusations only with no proofs and wild conspiracy theories which all of us (indians and pakistani eat),and even Pakistan keeps same impression for India in this regard.

Now the Afghanistan case was entirely different,Russia was at back of us and Pakistan was not left for any other other choice to get rid of Russia,it was great threat for Pakistan,at that time Pakistan did what it should.
But lapse produced after the assassination of Mr.Zia and yes,I agree with you at this point.:D
 
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Off topic post..
This what you think,not me,second,stop derailing the thread,if you are interested to discuss this then go ahead and open a new thread,all your questions will be answered there.

If you do not wish to discuss that; then its fine by me. But you need to understand that Jihad is a very deep philosophical concept of a human's existence. It has little, if anything to do with Guns, Bombs or Explosives. Or even with Killing of People. Or for that matter even with Violence really. It is do with elimination of all that is vile, destructive and unjust. And it is more internal to humans than anything external. It is a very lofty concept. And finally a supremely cleansing process in its intention.

Not something being peddled by some murderous thugs who have hijacked the term.
 
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Sir that will never happen until your government and forces stop following America orders and attacking our own people on orders from Americans and other kafirs you will not have nay moral ground to fight these people and that is their support back

our army and governments cant even follow those orders. what you call "our own people" were called Takfiris and Khawarij in the history of Islam. they silled the blood of Muslims like water.

today tell me how many kafir invaders have TTP killed? now compare how many people TTP has killed (even those who support Osama & your Mullah Omar)
 
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Pakistani people have been told for long by the establishment that jehad is their duty, and mujahids the ultimate patriots.

Werent these the same Pakistani people who jumped with joy every time there was a bomb blast in India(not even just Kashmir) and were told this is jehad and Mujahidden are fighting the kafirs.

Werent these the same Pakistani people who said alhamdullilah when Taliban forced Burqa on Afghan women.

Today when its come back to bite Pakistan in the a$$, why should they start blaming the mujahids?

because pain in the behind hurts bad. even harder is to admit the duplicity . the moment these "mujahids" say Allah o Akbar , people drop their jaws and some drop their pants thinking that coming in a way of someone shouting Allah o Akbar might be blasphemous. hence people dont condemn the beheading videos when the butchers shout Allah o Akbar before killing their victims.

people support the mujahideen, all of them its just that they lack the necessary faith to be like Mujahideen and for that they are being rightly punished by the .... you guessed it ... mujahideen.


by the way Mukti Bahmi and BLA are your version of Mujahideen , I know you have different names for them but the concept , modus operandi and goals are the same rebel against a state until victory.

If you do not wish to discuss that; then its fine by me. But you need to understand that Jihad is a very deep philosophical concept of a human's existence. It has little, if anything to do with Guns, Bombs or Explosives. Or even with Killing of People. Or for that matter even with Violence really. It is do with elimination of all that is vile, destructive and unjust. And it is more internal to humans than anything external. It is a very lofty concept. And finally a supremely cleansing process in its intention.

Not something being peddled by some murderous thugs who have hijacked the term.

after the fight of survival against the Mekkans Muhammad PBUH declared that small Jihad was over and bigger jihad was at hand, Jihad with own-self
 
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Atleast just accept in the end, that Pakistani Establishment(Army) for long used & abused Islam to get its political objectives...Pakistan sold terrorism in India in the name of Jihad, justified to its own population about it by filling their minds about Muslims being oppressed in India.

Today the tables have reversed.
the name of religion is used and abused by many.
even Oliver Cromwell justified the killing of Irish civilians as a will of God. A just cause and gave them a sermon to accept it before his forces started hacking men, women and children in the fallen Irish towns.

tables have been reversed for a very long time my dear, but the history is written by victors, damn this social media and internet that truth is harder to hide.
 
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