Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[gambit]

Yes, but doesn't that compromise stealth? The F-35 isn't the F-22, it's the Raptor that's the
trend-setter. Carrying so many weapons on outer wing pylons destroys the effort put into manufacturing
weapon bays, and stealth tech, RAM and other materials.

Of course it comprimises stealth! No "true" stealth platform will carry external weapons, it comprimises everything the plane was built for.

Even the F-22 can carry external stores including weapons, not just fuel. The decision/reason for when external weapons will be used will be based upon threat analyses, as in if theater airborne threats are of sufficient low quality and quantity to justify the removal of low radar observability for increased weapons delivery.

 

[rockstarIN]

It should be FGFA prototypes, since that the version we aim for and because we want different materials, avionics and maybe even different engines than Russia wants at the beginning. Taking T50 for tests to India the won't give any useful data.

But whenever we get it, its basically T-50 only as a prototype. right?

 

[sancho]

But whenever we get it, its basically T-50 only as a prototype. right?

No, otherwhise we would already test one of the T50 prototypes in India now, what we want are dedicated FGFA prototypes.

 

[arp2041]

No, otherwhise we would already test one of the T50 prototypes in India now, what we want are dedicated FGFA prototypes.

Sancho but i think that IAF will go for atleast 20-30 of PAK-FAs (i.e. the Russian version) before finally inducting the FGFA in it's fleet, this will be the same case as we did with su-30s before inducting the MKIs version, reason being the importance given by IAF to the nos. as PLAAF will also induct it's fifth gen aircraft by 2020 or so before the production of FGFA starts, worrying the balance of power.

 

[sancho]

Sancho but i think that IAF will go for atleast 20-30 of PAK-FAs (i.e. the Russian version) before finally inducting the FGFA in it's fleet, this will be the same case as we did with su-30s before inducting the MKIs version, reason being the importance given by IAF to the nos. as PLAAF will also induct it's fifth gen aircraft by 2020 or so before the production of FGFA starts, worrying the balance of power.

No it's not the same case, we inducted twin seat Su 30Ks which stuited our requirements and purposly rejected the early single seat Su 35s. Another point is, that Russia might go for a fast induction, but with less 5th gen features, something that IAF don't wants.
However, the prototypes will be FGFA versions, otherwise there is no sense in waiting for 2 more years.

 

[Sergi]

No it's not the same case, we inducted twin seat Su 30Ks which stuited our requirements and purposly rejected the early single seat Su 35s. Another point is, that Russia might go for a fast induction, but with less 5th gen features, something that IAF don't wants.
However, the prototypes will be FGFA versions, otherwise there is no sense in waiting for 2 more years.

If I am not wrong the prototype schedule ( 2014, 2017,2019) was of the time IAF want twin seaters. Now IAF is going only for Single seaters so most probably schedule will change. I personally think that Reporting on THIS topic is messy and things will be more clear when we actually sign the JV papers in next few months

 

[arp2041]

If I am not wrong the prototype schedule ( 2014, 2017,2019) was of the time IAF want twin seaters. Now IAF is going only for Single seaters so most probably schedule will change. I personally think that Reporting on THIS topic is messy and things will be more clear when we actually sign the JV papers in next few months

I think the timeline is correct, we just have to pray that it doesn't get delayed as the first FGFA production has already slipped to 2022. IAF made the right move by not going for twin seaters since that would have reduced stealth features & resulted in unnecessary cost escalations besides we were left alone as Russia wanted only single seaters. Though what sancho said could be correct but i still have the feeling that we "might" buy 2 squadrons of PAK-FAs off the shelf (From Russia With Love ).

 

[sancho]

If I am not wrong the prototype schedule ( 2014, 2017,2019) was of the time IAF want twin seaters. Now IAF is going only for Single seaters[so most probably schedule will change.

No, the initial schedule was aimed on getting FGFA for IAF around 2017, so prototypes would have been ready now, but decisions got delayed and now we have a new schedule.
I still say the single seat report was just a media speculation, it wasn't quoted by the air marshal and never officially confirmed and again, if we now want single seaters, we could test the T50 today in India.

Though what sancho said could be correct but i still have the feeling that we "might" buy 2 squadrons of PAK-FAs off the shelf (From Russia With Love ).

Russia surly wants to sell us some of them and they have stated that officially too, but IAF rejected the idea so far, because they want the FGFA changes.

 

[arp2041]

 

[sudhir007]

Google Translate

By the end of 2012 Research and Production Association (NPO) "Saturn" finalize the preliminary design of the second stage engine (product "117") for future aviation complex tactical aircraft (PAK FA). The information was the managing director of "Saturn," Ilya Fedorov.

"The engine of the first stage (product" 117C ") has been created for the Su-35. On the technical level it refers to the fighter class" 4 + + ". As for the engine of the second stage, the main difference between it and" 117S ", is that it will have a long service life, lower specific gravity and modularity of the elements of design "- said Fedorov.

It is believed that the materials, technology, and other technical innovations derived engine in the civilian sector, will flow to the military segment. And vice versa.

"All combined dvigatelnostroitelnaya Corporation is currently working on the creation of the second stage engine for the PAK FA", - quotes the head of the "Saturn", ITAR-TASS reported.

 

[Agent_47]

When Vladimir Putin is walking away from something, it looks like it ought to be exploding.

 

[mfreak]

When Vladimir Putin is walking away from something, it looks like it ought to be exploding.

Russian Rajnikant

 

[Sergi]

When Vladimir Putin is walking away from something, it looks like it ought to be exploding.

hahahaha you see too much movies I guess

Actually as a matter of fact I always try to figure out why the so called hero walking in style away from explosion is NOT being thrown on his @ss by the shock wave generated by the explosion.

Yes I know it's off topic and in wrong thread

 

[Jon Snow]

No, the initial schedule was aimed on getting FGFA for IAF around 2017, so prototypes would have been ready now, but decisions got delayed and now we have a new schedule.
I still say the single seat report was just a media speculation, it wasn't quoted by the air marshal and never officially confirmed and again, if we now want single seaters, we could test the T50 today in India.



Russia surly wants to sell us some of them and they have stated that officially too, but IAF rejected the idea so far, because they want the FGFA changes.

Actually the bit about the 166 single seat Pak Fa was quoted by the air chief marshal in an interview - I'll try to find it for you.
Got it.
Not an interview - but it's still a direct quote from the ACM
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/iaf-to-induct-214-fifth-generation-fighter-jets/189940-3.html

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will induct a total of 214 single and twin-seater variants of the advanced Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) being developed jointly by India and Russia. The fighters are likely to be inducted by 2017.
"We are looking for 166 single seater and 48 twin-seater versions of the aircraft," IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne said in New Delhi.
He was asked to comment on the project which will be reviewed by India and Russia during Defence Minister AK Antony's meeting with his Russian counterpart AE Sardyukov in Moscow.
He said the contract was in the preliminary contract stage and was expected involve more efforts by two sides when it enters design phase next year.
"By 2012, negotiations will start for the design phase of the aircraft," he said.
The IAF Chief said India would also discuss basing air force, Hindustan Aeronautics limited (HAL) and DRDO teams in Russia to monitor the progress of the joint venture project.
He said by 2017 the first lot of the aircraft were expected to join the IAF and that will depend on the progress of tests and trials of the aircraft.
Commenting on the international commitments of the IAF, Browne said it will hold aerial wargames with the Royal Air Force of Oman (RAFO) from October 14 at the Jamnagar air base where the two sides will field their Jaguar deep penetration strike aircraft.
Asked about its plans to take part in Red Flag exercise held in the US, Browne said participating in such wargames involves a lot of effort as it was a trans-Atlantic affair.
He said the IAF will now go there in 2013 only. Red Flag is a US-led NATO exercise and India had taken part in it in 2008.
Need for tri-service aerospace command
The IAF also said there was a need for having a tri-service aerospace command to look after the military issues related to space.
"Time has come that we look into the realm of an aerospace command. It would be a joint command where all the three services have to put their hands together," IAF Chief said while addressing the annual Air Force Day press conference in Nedw Delhi.
All the three services have been talking about creating a joint command for management and creation of a space command to tackle military threats and utilising space-based capabilities.
Asked about the status of the dedicated satellite programmes for the IAF, Browne said, "Both the GSAT-7 and GSAT-7A satellites are delayed by a year. That is a delay from the ISRO part."
He said the payload and other systems to be launched with the satellite have been finalised.
On the functioning of the IAF space cell, Browne said the Integrated Defence Staff has come up with a Defence Space Vision and was the point of contact for all the three services.

 

[sancho]

Not an interview

Exactly and that's the point, it was neither an interview with him, nor an official press conference, the report back then just said that the air marshal has said that, but again, since then not a single official confirmation from him, IAF or MoD came out, that there will be a change of the initial twin seat config. The media is just refering to the same article, on an on, but without any real proof.