Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[Perpendicular]

Everybody needs to chill out about the news of PAKFA being cancelled,
Meanwhile

 

[knight11]

Thanks for precise information. However heard about delay or cancellation of program so the question came across the mind what could be the difference that Russia actually offers cheaper deal on PAK-FA and is not going for FGFA. Though some members have already posted in detail and it is mentioned that Russia might not want to share the technology. So, if FGFA is a different aircraft in some areas then i don't think so that they would have any objection hence it could be something else stopping them from FGFA or may be i am wrong but my thoughts only.

Then the question is for those who think that Russia is not going to share the technology is which technology.

Engine -- I don't think, nor India is asking for it.
Stealth -- Who need it AMCA is ADA project not HAL, and HAL don't have any fifth gen fighter project in future
Weapon -- Astra-2, Mini Brahmos do they think Russia is denying them.

The doubt was in the IAF mind, that they won't be able to get the stealth, what they desired, because Russians are putting emphasis on the manuerability, and the status of the Engine. India have a problem, because Russia asking for too much money for just 3 prototype aka they feel Russia is developing the t-50 on the expense of India. And doubt on Russia due to the fact its economy is not encouraging, which is delaying the project.

Russian PAK FA to be Equipped With Futuristic Photonic Radar
© Flickr/ Mario Sainz Martínez
Military & Intelligence
14:41 30.12.2015(updated 16:30 30.12.2015) Get short URL
57167571
Russia’s fifth-generation fighter PAK FA (T-50) may be equipped with an advanced radar which is currently being developed by a Russian corporation.

© Sputnik/ Alexey Filippov
Russian T-50 PAK-FA Jet Flight Tests Near Completion
The radar will be based on Radio-Optical Phased Arrays (ROFAR), explained the adviser of the first deputy general director of concern Radio-Electronic Technology (KRET) Vladimir Mikheev.
KRET is a part of Russia’s Rostec corporation, it developed the electronic systems for the aircraft.

The future radar will be based on the photonic technology that greatly expands the possibilities of communication and radar as their weight will be decreased by more than half and the resolution will increase tenfold.

The ultra-wideband ROFAR signal allows one to virtually get a TV picture on a radar range. Radio photonic technology, in particular, will enhance the capabilities of the latest generation of Russian airplanes and helicopters.

“After our work on ROFAR, a list of aircrafts both manned and unmanned will be presented with an offer to be equipped with the radar based on radio-optical phased arrays. I think that the PAK FA will also be on this list and there will be specific proposals given to it,” Mikheyev told reporters, adding that the final decision will be taken by the Department of Defense.

The developer of ROFAR, KRET has established a laboratory on radio photonics. The concern has already started to perform laboratory tests to create ROFAR. Designed to be finished in 4.5 years, the project remains on schedule, which was agreed on with the Foundation for Advanced Studies.

As was earlier reported by the Deputy CEO of KRET, Igor Nasenkov, the company intends to establish a full-scale sample of the future radar by 2018.

“The PAK FA is a fifth-generation aircraft, with a number of brand-new technologies used in its development. It is a 100 percent digital aircraft. It can provide full information support to the pilot. The aircraft is equipped with versatile antenna systems built in its covering,” Nasenkov said during the Dubai Airshow 2015.


Read more: Russian PAK FA to be Equipped With Futuristic Photonic Radar

 

[Bharat_Bhakt]

Everybody needs to chill out about the news of PAKFA being cancelled,
MeanwhileView attachment 283952

are you saying we wont get twin seat version of russian 5th gen but will have single seat version instead what is your point ?

 

[Perpendicular]

are you saying we wont get twin seat version of russian 5th gen but will have single seat version instead what is your point ?

Highly unlikely a twin seater.

 

[The Eagle]

Then the question is for those who think that Russia is not going to share the technology is which technology.

Engine -- I don't think, nor India is asking for it.
Stealth -- Who need it AMCA is ADA project not HAL, and HAL don't have any fifth gen fighter project in future
Weapon -- Astra-2, Mini Brahmos do they think Russia is denying them.

The doubt was in the IAF mind, that they won't be able to get the stealth, what they desired, because Russians are putting emphasis on the manuerability, and the status of the Engine. India have a problem, because Russia asking for too much money for just 3 prototype aka they feel Russia is developing the t-50 on the expense of India. And doubt on Russia due to the fact its economy is not encouraging, which is delaying the project.

Russian PAK FA to be Equipped With Futuristic Photonic Radar
© Flickr/ Mario Sainz Martínez
Military & Intelligence
14:41 30.12.2015(updated 16:30 30.12.2015) Get short URL
57167571
Russia’s fifth-generation fighter PAK FA (T-50) may be equipped with an advanced radar which is currently being developed by a Russian corporation.

© Sputnik/ Alexey Filippov
Russian T-50 PAK-FA Jet Flight Tests Near Completion


Read more: Russian PAK FA to be Equipped With Futuristic Photonic Radar

Exactly that's the point i raised that when Russia is already sharing PAK-FA then there is no question at all that Russia is hesitating to share anything or something with India though the interest areas of India were hopefully already on paper while they signed for JV for the first time beck there so Russia would not say No after such a period. So i come to the conclusion almost that its just one has something on mind and other speculated something different however, things will be sorted.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

ANALYSIS Based on PAKFA new KRET Radar Detection of Aircraft at 500 KM

 

[Ankit Kumar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/691094842999345152

 

[Ind4Ever]

Progress Reported on Indian Version of Sukhoi T-50
by Vladimir Karnozov
February 1, 2016, 9:45 AM


Negotiations to create an Indian version of the Sukhoi T-50 PAKFA stealth fighter have reportedly made progress. (Photos: Vladimir Karnozov)
the visit to Moscow by Indian Prime Minister Narendra last December, although no announcement was made.

Each of the partners will invest $4 billion over the next seven years, including $2 billion each in the first year and the rest evenly distributed over the six years that follow. The total cost of development is now put at $10 billion, compared with $12 billion previously cited. The balance of $2 billion still required would be recouped from export sales, it is now reported.

United Aircraft (UAC) and Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) would be the industrial partners, with HAL having a workshare of at least 25 percent, and Bharat Electronics also playing a significant role. In similar fashion to the licensed production of the Su-30MKI for the Indian air force, the Indian companies will manage the replacement of Russian avionics, including mission and navigation computers; display and management systems; and self-protection systems. The result will be a considerably different aircraft from the PAKFA, and will effectively be the export version.

The Indian air force is seeking to procure 250 FGFAs. Earlier Indian sources estimated the unit production cost at $100 million, similar to that of the Su-30MKI.

Meanwhile, the acceptance process for the PAKFA has taken one year so far, preceded by five years of flight trials. The Russian air force expects to receive its first aircraft next year, and to have 55 in service by 2020. Initial production aircraft will be powered by a pair ofNPO Saturn/UMPO AL-41F1 turbofans (also known as “Item 117”). They will later be replaced by more powerful, reliable and efficient “Item 30” engines now in development by an industrial group supervised by the United Engine Corporation (Russian acronym ODK).

Everybody needs to chill out about the news of PAKFA being cancelled,
MeanwhileView attachment 283952

Best news are always kept out of our enemies. Trust me . more took place on this front even though there was no announcement made during our PM visit to Moscow. We leaked out new report suggest

4 billion dollars will be infused by both India and Russia in coming years and then 500 million each for the next 4 to 5 years . Money spent and money invested more than previously planned could be taken back as profit sharing among the both with export orders in future. That's sounds like a good deal and well start for both to move forward.

Good to see FGFA is taking MKI way . which as played important role in Sukoi aerospace industry and creating best variant called MKI . Now Russia inducting them in large numbers even though Su35 striking right cords till now.
I heard many countries are now interested in buying Su30 SM a MKI russian variant than Su35 itself. So FGFA is of great interest for both India and Russia than PAKFA Variant. Sounds very positive for Indian prospective.

5 years of vigorous exercise testing will be carried out on Indian FGFA .

Latest reports from many portals confirmed that HAL will now gets the share of 25% or even 30 % after testing is completed is a quite positive news for IAF too

This project is a go ahead.

Problems ? : Yes still not sorted out are

1) India wants more powerful and more efficient engine for optimized performance and lowering the cost of fighter operation. Ie operational Cost. Which is no where near completion. I don't think PAKFA will ever have Item 30 engine before 2022 .

2) Even though matured proto type of PAKFA are flying out many flaws are unsolved . like one such problem with PAKFA would have to be redesigned for more stealth characteristic from materials used . So even though the frame is complete stealth surface is not on par with F22 or even F35 . Not sure about this news but come of the concerns been discussed as we speak.

3) Timely delivery is something serious than we presumed. Its gonna be chasing a chicken story.

Hope we both overcome these problems and focus on good deeds this project can bring and make it a huge successfully completed 5th generation project.

Check this picture. Very interesting one . This what India wants to be more futuristic than what China will get with Su35...

 

[PARIKRAMA]

T50 with weapons bay open

 

[Ind4Ever]

T50 with weapons bay open

I really wonder how 5th generation fighter performance against 4++ gen Multirole fighters regarding Air to Ground role without losing its stealth mode???

 

[hembo]

India, Russia revive fighter aircraft talks; Kamov cost negotiations begin
Wednesday, February 10, 2016
By: Business Standard

After a hiatus of nearly a year, India and Russia have revived talks on the much delayed Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) even as cost negotiations for the joint production of 200 Kamov 226T helicopters have begun.
A high level Russian delegation is in town to hold negotiations on both the projects, high-level defence sources said.
"We have got the clearance to restart the talks. Accordingly, a Russian team is here and cost negotiations began yesterday"; the sources said.

India has already pumped in about $290 million into the project but it got delayed because the IAF had some issues.
Russia has made a new offer on the delivery of Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) fighter jets to India under the joint FGFA initiative.

Under the new offer, India will have to pay $3.7 billion, instead of $6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of PAK FA fighters.

In 2010, India had agreed to pay $295 million towards the preliminary design of the fighter.

The code name of the project in India is Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF).

The Russian delegation will also hold talks with state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for 200 Kamov 226T light helicopters to replace the ageing fleet of Cheetah and Chetak, in a deal estimated to be worth $1 billion under the "Make in India"; initiative.

Defence Ministry had in August last year scrapped a scam-tainted tender worth over Rs 6,000 crore to procure 197 light utility helicopters for Army and Air Force to replace the fleet of Cheetah and Chetak choppers, which are used to move troops and equipment to high-altitude locations like Siachen.

Following Russia's offer to manufacture Kamov in India, the Defence Acquisition Council, chaired by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, accepted it.

Though the initial order is only for 200 helicopters, it is likely to be increased later on.

In the meanwhile:

 

[randomradio]

T50 with weapons bay open

CGI.

I really wonder how 5th generation fighter performance against 4++ gen Multirole fighters regarding Air to Ground role without losing its stealth mode???

Markedly superior due to the internal bays. Aircraft can come in supersonic and leave at the same speed. The point being, enemy aircraft should not be given the chance to engage the strike aircraft.

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

1. Both will be based on the T-50
2. FGFA would be for Indian and Russians would use PAK FA
3. FGFA would be smaller than PAK FA
4. FGFA would be MKI of PAK FA, and would be more stealthy, while PAK FA would be better Agile
5. FFGA would use extensive use of Composites, while PAK FA would be use high Titanium
6. FGFA would be cheaper than PAK FA
7. For FGFA indian's prefer twin seater, but right now its not finalized.
8. FGFA is the tailor product for the IAF, and would use western avionics and littlebit indian contribution.

I still think FGFA will be very expensive birds because HAL & IAF wants too many twicks in the jet. Adding composite material instead of the original material(titanium) will result in another 2-3 years delay and price hike plus we want more stealthier jet, smaller than the PAKFA and all these changes plus at cheaper cost than the PAKFA.

I think the HAL & IAF are definitely smoking something new..

 

[randomradio]

I still think FGFA will be very expensive birds because HAL & IAF wants too many twicks in the jet. Adding composite material instead of the original material(titanium) will result in another 2-3 years delay and price hike plus we want more stealthier jet, smaller than the PAKFA and all these changes plus at cheaper cost than the PAKFA.

I think the HAL & IAF are definitely smoking something new..

New composites have been invented in Russia for FGFA. It will have RAM baked into the structure of the aircraft.

We have chosen the same airframe as Russia.

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

New composites have been invented in Russia for FGFA. It will have RAM baked into the structure of the aircraft.

We have chosen the same airframe as Russia.

But you said FGFA will use composites instead of Titanium, so it will result in rise of cost doesn't matter who develops it.