Suggested duties for Indian members of this forum

[saiyan0321]

LOLOL.

@saiyan0321 must be having a mild heart-attack somewhere, reading this.



Ask him if he needs a clerk. I could do with the money.

Lollzz it was good drafting joe. you are not making a constitution nor making some complicated legal code where it must be formed in such a manner that it contains no loopholes. A simple sentence that contains a paragraph within that sentence is enough. You involve lawyers in this and it would have become something that only lawyers could interpret. Alot better and very professional.

Actually, it IS a general rule of the Forum. It's just that none of us read the Rules!

And thats the problem. The rules and regulations are the creation of a sovereign authority and like all rules and regulations in the world ( whether that sovereign authority is the monarch, the legislative, or the head of the forum), they hold a weak symbiotic relationship with the populace relative to a moral code. you would see that many times courts highlight the moral relationship of the society and law. When the prosecutor sends a case to the magistrate, in his comments he always uses the sentence that the prosecution of this person is imperative for the moral standing of the society. The reason for this is that the laws and rules are the implementation of a third party (whether that third party claims representation of the populace or gives reason of its relation with the moral code but it is still the construct of the third party) thus the relationship with another is weak however a moral code is something that we agree to it ourselves and tell ourselves to follow something we are not obliged to follow. You dont have to be nice to Indians or Pakistanis but you are because that is your moral code. Its relationship with the self is far more stronger.

This is why you hear many jurists say respect the law, treat the law as your own and love the law so that the symbiotic relationship between the two increases. Let me give you an example. Why were the constitutions of 1958, 1962 and 1973 were so easily abrogated in 1958, 1969 and 1977 whereas in the same country and in the same populace it is difficult as hell to have them stop from shaking hands or hugging people during greetings even if temporarily. Why? you would say those two have no relation. One is the moral standing of a person and the other is the constitution passed by a parliament and there you go. That is the explanation. One is felt dear by the people and the other is something far off, passed by somebody we dont know. What does it concern us. This imbalance is the reason why we read philosophers and jurists talk nonstop on rule of law and how laws should be loved. From ibn e Khaldun to john locke all highlighted on rule of law and moral relationship of laws. They highlighted natural law to expand the symbiotic relationship between the two.

This code may work in this line. I hope it does and as i told you before, if implemented correctly coupled with posters who are sticking to their own codes, similar to nature as this one, you guys can become a very good intellectual group within the Indian community as well as the entire PDF community itself that may trump many other posters. Frankly Pakistani posters should spend their time doing something similar rather than make plans on secret coups on moderation otherwise they will be left behind and the moral high ground will be taken away.

Same principle can be applied here. The rules and regulations are extensive but they are similar to the rules and regulations in real life.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Guys, it is not nice to backbite our brother @PAKISTANFOREVER

When so many Indian users complain against him all the time, I am sure he's no saint. Anyway I have no problem with him, and have addressed him in a separate thread. May I request you to not to speak on his behalf? I really want to hear what he has to say.

You judged correctly. Most Pakistanis want nothing to do with Indians.

That is the whole basis of Two Nation Theory, i.e. Reality.

Fair enough. That's your viewpoint.

You caught on to their motives quite clearly. This is a ruse to get Indian members from being banned.

No. We want Indian members to behave nicely to each other, as well as to Pakistanis, Chinese, or any other posters. What's wrong in having that aspiration?

Other OP, will he stop mudslinging me by calling me Taliban (for my Pukhtoon cultural ties and affinity for Afghanistan) and trying to warn Indian Muslims not to talk with me? Lol.

I give you my word that in future I will not call you "Taliban" again, nor insult your Afghan family members. Whatever I said against Afghans in the past in an unrelated thread was concerning the nation of Afghanistan, not the Pukhtoons from Pakistan. Same people, yes, but not entirely. A lot of Afghans are non-Pukhtoons..Tajiks, Hazaras, etc. I had some bad experiences with them in Europe (I have lived there for 4 years).

Don't try to use the example of an unrelated thread in the past to paint me as a hater of Pukhtoons. It's not true. And i did promise I will not call you "Taliban" again. What more do you want?

Before asking anyone to change, you three need to fix your own issues, however I doubt it will happen because of large egos.

I certainly have less ego than you do. I am willing to have a dialogue with you. On the other hand, you are spreading lies about me.

Muslim Indian members of this forum like @xeuss @jamahir and others already do not have problems on this forum because they respect Pakistanis and the Islamic faith, which we both follow. So they already have an Islamic code of conduct. They fit in very well with us.

That's wishful thinking on your part. In the event of a verbal disagreement, I totally expect xeuss and Jamahir to side with me and Joe rather than you. They fit in better with us.

I see this as some kind of ploy to bring Indian Muslims in line with Indian Hindu liberal thought and dictates. I read here some saying that Indians should not insult their state or call others Sanghis, but it is very hard after seeing what happened in New Delhi.

All us Indian liberals are pro-Indian Muslim. We have proved it time and again with our actions.

Some of us are even pro-Pakistani. I personally don't like to discriminate against Pakistanis in favour of Indians. I never do that.

Soon, indians on PDF will be asking for those who criticise modi and support the Kashmiris in ioK to be permanently banned from PDF................

You're mistaken. We have categorically ruled out that point. Bash Modi all you want here.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I personally did not call you a racist. I just said that you always manage to get a "RISE" out of Indians which happens to be true. You might be smiling at yourself.



Trust me, not all of us trust Indian media. I only trust 2-3 Indian media sources. Generally, I use neutral international sources such as BBC, Guardian (UK) in all my comments. I have yelled at my own Indian members when they claimed 43 Chinese died at Galwan. Other Indian posters including xeuss, Joe etc. also have their doubts with Indian media.

We're precisely here on a Pakistani forum because we don't trust Indian media. There is a large group of dissenters in India: we're not this giant monolith, a big ball of hatred as you imagine.



Hell no, be proud of who you are. Wear it on your sleeves. By the same token, we (Indians) will have pride in who we are. That's why I took an issue with the user Letsrockforever in previous posts: he says that Indians should not take pride in being Indians, because India is a fascist state. Why? We're dead opposed to fascism in India but that doesn't mean we can't take pride in being Indians.

You take pride in being Pakistani. We take pride in being Indians. But we can still coexist peacefully.



Most of us dissenters love it here in this Pakistani forum because of a democracy of ideas. To be honest, we hate those Indian forums more than you do.




Fair enough but you're on your own. I get along great with the Pakistanis in Singapore (one works very closely with me as a supplier). We speak in Punjabi and it feels amazing.

Yes there's a lot of bitterness between the two countries. But some people of both countries do coexist peacefully.



What makes you think we get any pleasure out of hating Islam or Pakistan? We don't.




Already conveyed to you it's not entirely true. This is the precise aim of this thread: to make the behavior of Indian members more pleasant, to each other, as well as to non-Indians.

Then why don't indians on PDF go to indian forums and try to improve the quality there?

 

[saiyan0321]

This is a very beautiful post, and you are a wonderful human being. App ko to Farishta hona chahye tha.

But in reality, nations and borders do exist. Besides we cannot enforce these rules on Pakistani posters without their being abusive exchanges. We can only control our Indian posters.

But your views are very enlightened. You'll have great company with the likes of @Joe Shearer
I will also buy you a beer for being such a progressive person. Please don't change.

I don’t know who you are, nor have I interacted with you in the past, but you Sir have just gained my utmost respect!
Literally verbalized my feelings.

codes and conducts should not be imposed, nor can they be.

1. it is impractical because there is no orientation that happens to familiarize members about this said “code”. So how do you go about funneling this code to each and every Indian poster (assuming that’s the end goal)

2. This is the online world where identities are anonymous, flags are arbitrary and motives of posters unknown. It is next to impossible to actually expect conformity from posters based on rules that have been created by a small group. This group and I speak mainly for @Joe Shearer has my respect because he has been around for years and it took years of reading and understanding his thoughts and excellent posts that cultivated this respect. This is an individual thing and has to be achieved at its own pace. Not every member of this group has the same standing as Joe for me.

A new member is not and will not just “respect” you and your codes just because you say so.
It’s the same thing with mods here. @waz has my respect because he has earned it through his actions and thoughts. The newer mods, not so much.

3. who is enforcing these codes? What is the penalty for non compliance?

lastly and most importantly....

4. what is the end goal here? To make this forum better?
If that is the case, then the onus is on ALL members to adhere to this or such codes, NOT just Indian members.
If the goal is to appease PDF Pakistanis, then the code itself is flawed because it is no different that what is happening to the Muslims in India where the majority (PDF Paks) needs to be appeased and the minority (PDF Indians) need to compromise to be able to coexist, lest they be booted, banned, trolled or worst just shut out.
And this group and code then becomes a tool to assist the majority impose their will.
I don’t agree or accept what’s happening in India and I will not allow myself to be part of something that I don’t accept/allow in my real life.

I completely agree with this poster quoted here:

1.the code has to be individual
2. It has to reflect your upbringing.

3. If you wouldn’t say something to someone’s face in real life, don’t say it anonymously on the internet either

3. Treat others, how you would like to be treated. If you wouldn’t like your nation, mother, founding fathers, history, armed forces, religion to be disrespected, don’t disrespect another members either.

4. (Ideally) Treat this like forum like a joint family home. Disagreements happen, but should not cross limits to the point that the house and family is broken.
But...and I say this from a personal standpoint that it is extremely hard to feel like this forum is “ours” because it becomes blatantly obvious to point that it’s said through actions and words that this is a Pakistani forum only.
You only try to improve your “own” house.
This isn’t my house as I see intolerance and unfairness at every nook and cranny here.
So I don’t have any vested interest in trying to improve this place. But that’s just me.

@Joe Shearer you’re a good human being and I understand your urge to create this code to sow seeds of harmony. But I think this is a lost endeavor.

PDF is simply a channel for many posters to vent their frustration.
When I first joined, I was hoping this would be a way for Indians and Pakistanis to come together and understand each other, listen and perhaps find a way to harness our joint history to find commonalities that could bring us closer. Perhaps what can’t be done by our politicians, can be done by the common man. I was wrong (at least about PDF)
Over the years (on this forum only not in real life), I have found that we are different in every regard. There is no common ground and if based on what goes on at PDF is the posters speaking the truth behind anonymity, then there is no hope for peace between our people. We simply hate each other and have no way to understand each other’s perspectives nor be able to understand an issue by putting ourselves in “their” shoes.

Unfortunately, as much as I think this is a good gesture, I’ll follow my own code, one that takes the reality of this place into account, but making sure that I represent my uprbringing, my family and nation in the best way possible. Other than that, appeasement is not my cup of tea.

PS: we need the attitude of both indian and Pak posters to be like @saiyan0321
That is the kind of engagement/attitude that makes me drop my guard, makes me want to listen, understand and resolve.
Just my 2 pennies.

you are all too kind. I simply try to act the way i act in real life on a forum and highlight what i believe in real life. I know very nice Indians and i know nice Pakistanis who talk to them and there are disagreements but they are argued in a mature manner and with the concept of 'Agree to disagree' in the end. This place doesnt help. It sometimes brings the worst out of people.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

• @Krptonite

• @The_Showstopper

• @jbgt90

• @TheGreatMaratha

• @Mad Scientist 2.0

• @xeuss

• @Dustom999

• @Syama Ayas

• @Joe Shearer

• @Shantanu_Left

Whatever we are discussing as a voluntary code for ourselves as Indian members, it is important to keep in mind that everything is within the rules of the Forum. Wherever there is a difference between our code and the Forum rules, the Forum rules take precedence.

It is highly recommended that we keep abreast of the Forum rules. The link is given under this.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pdf-rules-and-regulations-revised-input-needed.655844/

Great. We have ten signatures now. Let's collect a few more, and make it voluntarily binding on all those who have committed to stick to the code.

Then why don't indians on PDF go to indian forums and try to improve the quality there?

Many of us secretly acknowledge that Pakistanis are better people than we are.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Many of us on the left secretly acknowledge that Pakistanis are better people than we are.

ftfy

 

[Joe Shearer]

Great. We have ten signatures now. Let's collect a few more, and make it voluntarily binding on all those who have committed to stick to the code.



Many of us secretly acknowledge that Pakistanis are better people than we are.

No, ten is enough, we just allow a little more time for any other late-comers. Then we go.

 

[meghdut]

No, ten is enough, we just allow a little more time for any other late-comers. Then we go.

You can include me Joe.

 

[Krptonite]

No, ten is enough, we just allow a little more time for any other late-comers. Then we go.

Any idea as to how many total active indians on the forum? Is the data available?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Any idea as to how many total active indians on the forum? Is the data available?

We counted 30, there must be about ten more.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

We counted 30, there must be about ten more.

11 out of 40 isn't bad for a start!

 

[JonAsad]

so what are the duties?

11 out of 40 isn't bad for a start!

start of what?-

 

[Shantanu_Left]

so what are the duties?


start of what?-

We have taken an initiative to ensure that users with Indian flags stick to a code of conduct while posting here. This is what the entire thread talks about. No bashing another user's religion, no personal attacks, no gutter vocabulary etc. It's kind of an internal policing but is voluntary and not binding.

It was long needed because lot of good threads related to India get ruined or side-tracked because some people just don't know where to stop.

 

[JonAsad]

We have taken an initiative to ensure that users with Indian flags stick to a code of conduct while posting here. This is what the entire thread talks about. No bashing another user's religion, no personal attacks, no gutter vocabulary etc. It's kind of an internal policing but is voluntary and not binding.

It was long needed because lot of good threads related to India get ruined or side-tracked because some people just don't know where to stop.

Your initiative is Pulwama proof? -

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Your initiative is Pulwama proof? -

I didn't understand your point. Of course we will continue to discuss all topics including Pulwama. This code of conduct is only pertaining to the behavior of Indian members.