Successful First Flight of Hawk AJT for Indian Navy

[kurup]

Yeah the IN Hawks will be nearly identical to the IAF's MK.132s and will be used exclusively for shore-based training- still a critical part of their curriculum. The only thing these HAWKs will not be able to train the naval aviators on will be carrier take off and landing.


AFAIK rookie IN pilots go to the RuN and USN for carrier training. Once the SBTF at INS HANSA is completed then the IN pilots won't need to be sent to the RuN anymore (as they only impart STOBAR training) and such training can be imparted in India on MIG-29KUBs and two seat N-LCAs.


Once the IAC-2 and beyond come into the picture the IN is going to have to find an in-house solution for CATOBAR training so T-45s and a shore-based CATOBAR training facility.

CATOBAR technology as of now rests with US alone . I am skeptical of IN getting catapult or EMALS for IAC1 .

US have a shore based CATOBAR training facility . Hope one day IN also gets it too .

Have we ordered any twin seater MiG29K ??

 

[Abingdonboy]

CATOBAR technology as of now rests with US alone . I am skeptical of IN getting catapult or EMALS for IAC1 .

NO WAY! The IAC-1 from day one has been designed as a STOBAR carrier it will not be CATOBAR configured- this hasn't even been suggested. IAC-2 onwards will be CATOBAR equipped most likely and there are a lot of rumors surrounding EMALS being the catapult mechanism
that will be present-we will see.

US have a shore based CATOBAR training facility . Hope one day IN also gets it too .

Indeed.

Have we ordered any twin seater MiG29K ??

Yep- the IN ordered K (single seater) and KUBs (twin-seat/trainers)- IIRC out of the orginal 16 order 4 were KUBs. More KUBs will be coming in the follow-on 29 unit order but I don't know the specfic numbers off the top of my head.

 

[kurup]

NO WAY! The IAC-1 from day one has been designed as a STOBAR carrier it will not be CATOBAR configured- this hasn't even been suggested. IAC-2 onwards will be CATOBAR equipped most likely and there are a lot of rumors surrounding EMALS being the catapult mechanism
that will be present-we will see. .

Sorry , I meant IAC-2 and not IAC-1 .

Even if we see EMALS or catapult in IAC-2 , it will have to come from US . The question is what do they want in return ??

Does Russia have any catapult or EMALS under developement ??

Google searches return nothing other than "Russian emails" .......

 

[Abingdonboy]

Even if we see EMALS or catapult in IAC-2 , it will have to come from US . The question is what do they want in return ??

Lol- $$$$, of course!!

Does Russia have any catapult or EMALS under developement ??

Not AFAIK. The Europeans (UK and France) did have a look at developing their own EMALS tech but that went nowhere. For the foreseeable future the US has a complete monopoly on such tech. Even if you're not talking about EMALS but regular steam catapults, the US is still pretty much the only player in this field. Whatever way you cut it the IN is going to have to go to the US if it wants CATOBAR carriers (which it does). The IN doesn't seem all that uncomfortable with going to the US for kit- P-8I, S-70B, BELL 429, V-22, MQ-4C, FIRESCOUT etc etc.
[/QUOTE]

 

[kurup]

Lol- $$$$, of course!!

Apart from $$$$ , they could also link sale of SH or F35 as a requisite for selling us EMALS .

 

[Abingdonboy]

Apart from $$$$ , they could also link sale of SH or F35 as a requisite for selling us EMALS .

Indeed along with a few S-70Bs- just like the Ruskies did with the Viki and Talwar deals (KA-31/28).Heck, if we're lucky we might even see the V-22 AEW and FireScout make their way onto the IAC-2 (

).I for one wouldn't be all that disappointed by the US outfitting the IAC-2 and its airwing- I'm sure many would be though! But it's all speculation right now, as usual, we'll just have to wait and see bro.

 

[Sergi]

Indeed along with a few S-70Bs- just like the Ruskies did with the Viki and Talwar deals (KA-31/28).Heck, if we're lucky we might even see the V-22 AEW and FireScout make their way onto the IAC-2 (

).I for one wouldn't be all that disappointed by the US outfitting the IAC-2 and its airwing- I'm sure many would be though! But it's all speculation right now, as usual, we'll just have to wait and see bro.

I think IN would actually prefer 20 SH instead if S-70Bs or V-22s. It will give the needed boost to their air wing and they could be in position to wait till N-FGFA or N-AMCA come out. Otherwise they will have to go for N-MMRCA.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think IN would actually prefer 20 SH instead if S-70Bs or V-22s. It will give the needed boost to their air wing and they could be in position to wait till N-FGFA or N-AMCA come out. Otherwise they will have to go for N-MMRCA.

I think the S-70Bs are certain- it is already the front runner in the current N-MRH competition for the IN. Wrt the V-22, we'll have to wait and see. And I doubt the SH will be procured as the IN is surely more interested in next-gen fighters for the IAC-2 and beyond, whether this is the N-FGFA, N-AMCA or F-35C.

 

[Sergi]

I think the S-70Bs are certain- it is already the front runner in the current N-MRH competition for the IN. Wrt the V-22, we'll have to wait and see. And I doubt the SH will be procured as the IN is surely more interested in next-gen fighters for the IAC-2 and beyond, whether this is the N-FGFA, N-AMCA or F-35C.

I was talking about the tag deal with Catapult ( most likely ) or EMALS ( i dont think so )

N-FGFA/N-AMCA/F-35C non of them will be available for IN before 2020/22.
I don't think IN will wait with 45 Mig-29Ks till then. Either Rafale-M or SH as a stop gap

 

[Abingdonboy]

I was talking about the tag deal with Catapult ( most likely ) or EMALS ( i dont think so )

N-FGFA/N-AMCA/F-35C non of them will be available for IN before 2020/22.
I don't think IN will wait with 45 Mig-29Ks till then. Either Rafale-M or SH as a stop gap

Wrt steam catapult vs EMALS- the jury's still out on this but I, for one, wouldn't be surprised if the news came out the the IAC-2 was coming with EMALS- maybe @sancho can give a more informed view on this.


Coming to the fighter for the IAC-2, I agree it is is a huge unknown as the timing (2022-4) when the IAC-2 will be in service is an awkward time frame to work to and I am still unsure whether the N-AMCA or N-FGFA will be operationally ready by then. The F-35C will be the only off the shelf next-gen tried and tested (on EMALS/CATOBAR at that) fighter available for the foreseeable future. I don't see much point in buying a few Rafales or SH as a "stop-gap" measure as what are you going to do with these birds once their replacements (next-gen fighters) come into service? This would be an increidbly expensive and wasteful way of going about it. It is possible that the IAC-2 will see a reverse of the Viki debacle ie the ACC in service with no fighters to fly off it.

MIG-29Ks are a no-go as they are 4.5+ gen and only able to operate in a STOBAR configuration not the CATOBAR congifuration that will be on the IAC-2 and beyond.

 

[Sergi]

Yes , my point was that this is a regular hawk used for giving common training for naval pilots and not for carrier training .

Also , I don't think it will even be able to do ramp take-off from SBTF .

Do our naval pilots gets training from RuN in STOBAR operations ??

Theoretically it can take off from a ramp !!! Question should be about landing on that short strip without hook

 

[Sergi]

Wrt steam catapult vs EMALS- the jury's still out on this but I, for one, wouldn't be surprised if the news came out the the IAC-2 was coming with EMALS- maybe @sancho can give a more informed view on this.


Coming to the fighter for the IAC-2, I agree it is is a huge unknown as the timing (2022-4) when the IAC-2 will be in service is an awkward time frame to work to and I am still unsure whether the N-AMCA or N-FGFA will be operationally ready by then. The F-35C will be the only off the shelf next-gen tried and tested (on EMALS/CATOBAR at that) fighter available for the foreseeable future. I don't see much point in buying a few Rafales or SH as a "stop-gap" measure as what are you going to do with these birds once their replacements (next-gen fighters) come into service? This would be an increidbly expensive and wasteful way of going about it. It is possible that the IAC-2 will see a reverse of the Viki debacle ie the ACC in service with no fighters to fly off it.

MIG-29Ks are a no-go as they are 4.5+ gen and only able to operate in a STOBAR configuration not the CATOBAR congifuration that will be on the IAC-2 and beyond.

But you didn't exactly answer my question
Will IN wait 10/12 years with Mig-29s ???
F-35 will take 2020 to fulfil existing orders. And i don't think US will fit into our procurement procedure.

Secondly EMALS isn't 100% operational yet and I don't think uncle sam will be willing to give us their latest tech which nobody in the world have. And yes i read about the presentation made for IN

 

[Abingdonboy]

But you didn't exactly answer my question
Will IN wait 10/12 years with Mig-29s ???

For the Viki and IAC-1 the MIG-29Ks are their primary fighters for the foreseeable future with the N-LCA coming in at some point later. For the IAC-2 and beyond the MIG-29Ks are out of contention.

F-35 will take 2020 to fulfill existing orders. And i don't think US will fit into our procurement procedure.

Well the IAC-2 isn't going to come into service until at least 2022-4 so the time-frame is bang-on for F-35 orders-that is not an issue. Wrt procurement procedures- it will be a FMS deal and, yes, it is unlikely to come with much ToT and limited offsets.

Secondly EMALS isn't 100% operational yet and I don't think uncle sam will be willing to give us their latest tech which nobody in the world have. And yes i read about the presentation made for IN

I can't disagree but the time-frame we are talking about is at least a decade away so who know? Like I said- I wouldn't be overly surprised to hear the EMALS was going to be on the IAC-2.

 

[kurup]

Theoretically it can take off from a ramp !!! Question should be about landing on that short strip without hook

If we leave the arrestor recovery out of equation , can any fighter without modifications take-off from a ramp ??

 

[Sergi]

If we leave the arrestor recovery out of equation , can any fighter without modifications take-off from a ramp ??

As i said earlier thoerotically its YES. In case of heavy fighters you might need to lower the payload to achive the take off speed. But i think in case of trainer its shouldnt be the case.

+ AFAIK modification to the plane needed are "landing gear" and "airframe strenghtening" ie for landing.