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Submitting To Sense:Muslims must give up parochialism, stop obsessing with the past

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How many hindus were lynched in Bangladesh and what was done about it? What happened to 100's of temples that were destroyed in Bangladesh? Its easy to point fingers. The cruz of the matter is Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and every minority religion feel a lot safer in India than in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

Babri Masjid was destroyed by Hindu fundamentalist in recent days yet we almost spare all Hindu Mandir even though we could have bulldoze every single of them. But we ain't coward like you.

We still got about 8% Hindu in Bd and I doubt this guys will migrate to Hindu dominated country where bloody sub human caste system still part of social fabric. A cow get more respect in Bharat than low caste Hindus. ;)
 
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How many hindus were lynched in Bangladesh and what was done about it? What happened to 100's of temples that were destroyed in Bangladesh? Its easy to point fingers. The cruz of the matter is Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and every minority religion feel a lot safer in India than in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

You seriously need to pull your head out from its present location. We need documentation buddy.

"What happened to 100's" is simply words coming out off your post. Which I seriously doubt as a credible source. Bangladesh has zero case of any riot.

Bangladeshi folks are no where near like some Indians, who would pull the heart out of a neighbor like the grim reaper.
 
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^^^^

Go to the link and scroll down to the comments ...that will give you an idea...what sensible people think.

What do you exactly mean by 'sensible people'? Let me guess. You mean people who share your point of view... am I right?

From your article it seems that Mullahs, Islam, or people's faith are the root cause of all evil. Who do you then blame for the similar problems that the some of the resource-rich African countries are going through? There are no Mullahs or 'terrorists' or whatever else in places like Republic of Congo, or Angola but yet they are some of the hardest hit places on this planet. Who then do you blame? I hope not the muslims or their faults or....
Racism is stupid simply because its an illusion. I do not see it in terms of Islam or Democracy or any other gibberish but through the simple math of economics... resources, resources, and resources... everything else is politics.
 
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You seriously need to pull your head out from its present location. We need documentation buddy.

"What happened to 100's" is simply words coming out off your post. Which I seriously doubt as a credible source. Bangladesh has zero case of any riot.

Bangladeshi folks are no where near like some Indians, who would pull the heart out of a neighbor like the grim reaper.

Documentation:

Hindu's killed during 1971:

World: Pakistan: The Ravaging of Golden Bengal

The Hindus, who account for three-fourths of the refugees and a majority of the dead, have borne the brunt of the Moslem military's hatred. Even now, Moslem soldiers in East Pakistan will snatch away a man's lungi (sarong) to see if he is circumcised, obligatory for *******; if he is not, it usually means death. Others are simply rounded up and shot. Commented one high U.S. official last week: "It is the most incredible, calculated thing since the days of the Nazis in Poland."

Hindus killed after 1971:

Primary Report

In 1992, more than a thousand women being gang raped, hundreds of temple demolished, houses of Hindu minorities were set ablaze and earthly possessions of minorities were looted. Those atrocities were preplanned and the proof of states involvement. It is the duty of the state to protect its citizen yet state has never tried to protect minorities during those atrocities although some incidents happen barely a quarter of a mile away from Police stations around the country. Some suggest that Jamat-I-Islami was planning the attack on minorities for a while which was known to the then government in 1992. At the night of 6th December, Jamat initiate its rain of terror in Chittagong. They went on rampage at Chittagong destroying temples, looting shops and houses and setting ablaze the domicile of Hindu minorities. At least three children were burned alive in Kutubdia. Latter the violence spread in Dhaka and other parts of the country.

Hindu, Buddha, Christian Unity Council (HBCUC) has visited various districts and prepared a list of property damages, gang rapes, arsons and loots after 6th December 1992. According to the report of HBCUC more than 28000 domiciles, 3500 temples/religious foundations and 2500 commercial establishments were either damaged or completely destroyed. At least 15 people were slaughtered and hundreds of others wounded and 2400 women were gang raped. Minorities alleged that government neither protected minorities nor made initiative to apprehend the Islamic fundamentalists. It was observed that police and some elements of then ruling party were involved in the violence. Initial report suggests total loss minority property worth 1480 millions Taka.

It is to be noted that when Mr. Nurul Islam Nahid (secretary of then all party alliance) was questioned about the HBCUC report, he agreed that the report was conservative estimate and actual number may increase. Mr. Nahid also stated that minorities of Sylhet district perhaps never experienced such brutal atrocities in past, atrocities of 1992 have made a permanent scar in the heart of minorities there. The Member of Parliament elected from Bhola Mr. Thofael Ahmed also agreed with the report prepared by HBCUC. He asserted that perhaps crimes against women and children were far more brutal than that described in the report.

According to leader of Awami League Mr. Shudangshu Shekhar Halder a total of 3600 temples and 28000 domiciles were completely destroyed in 6th December. The total cost of damage is more than 2000 millions Taka.

Some asserted that the atrocities of 1992 was far more brutal that that of 1950. During the atrocities of 1992 and 1990 minority women and children have become the victims of brutal crimes. In those atrocities women were not only gang raped brutally, they were forced to walk naked in the streets. Rape victims also include minors starting with age 5. In some villages, no women aged 5 to age 70 escaped the merciless attack of vicious Islamic fundamentalists. Years of oppressions and state sponsored discriminations have ended the minorities so fearful and vulnerable that the vicious Islamic fundamentalists never have to face any resistance during their medieval rampage against minorities.

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Analysis: Fears of Bangladeshi Hindus

Although Bangladesh was founded as a secular republic in 1971, a new provision was added in the country's constitution by the former military ruler General Ershad in the 1980s in which Islam has been declared as state religion.

Bangladesh slammed for persecution of Hindus

During and immediately after Bangladesh's Parliamentary election in October 2001, 'there were numerous reports of illegal land seizures, arson, extortion, sexual assault, and intimidation of religious minority group members, particularly Hindus'.

Recalling HAF's annual human rights report, Chowdhury said, "The low-scale religious cleansing of the already shrinking minority Hindu population in Bangladesh is of grave concern to not only the Hindu American Foundation but also to those who share the ethos of pluralism and tolerance."

Even after the decline of Hindu population in Bangladesh from 13.5% in 1974, just after the independence, Hindus were at around 9.2% of the population in 2001 according to government estimates following the census. However, Hindus accounted for only 4 members of the 300 member parliament following the 2001 elections through direct election; this went up to 5 following a by-election victory in 2004. Significantly, of the 45 seats reserved for women that are directly nominated by the Prime Minister, not a single one was allotted to a Hindu. Several Hindu advocacy groups in Bangladesh have demanded a return to a communal electorate system as existed during the Pakistan period, to enable a more equitable representation in parliament, or a reserved quota since persecution of Hindus continue since 1946.
 
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Documentation:

Hindu's killed during 1971:

World: Pakistan: The Ravaging of Golden Bengal



Hindus killed after 1971:

Primary Report

In 1992, more than a thousand women being gang raped, hundreds of temple demolished, houses of Hindu minorities were set ablaze and earthly possessions of minorities were looted. Those atrocities were preplanned and the proof of states involvement. It is the duty of the state to protect its citizen yet state has never tried to protect minorities during those atrocities although some incidents happen barely a quarter of a mile away from Police stations around the country. Some suggest that Jamat-I-Islami was planning the attack on minorities for a while which was known to the then government in 1992. At the night of 6th December, Jamat initiate its rain of terror in Chittagong. They went on rampage at Chittagong destroying temples, looting shops and houses and setting ablaze the domicile of Hindu minorities. At least three children were burned alive in Kutubdia. Latter the violence spread in Dhaka and other parts of the country.

Hindu, Buddha, Christian Unity Council (HBCUC) has visited various districts and prepared a list of property damages, gang rapes, arsons and loots after 6th December 1992. According to the report of HBCUC more than 28000 domiciles, 3500 temples/religious foundations and 2500 commercial establishments were either damaged or completely destroyed. At least 15 people were slaughtered and hundreds of others wounded and 2400 women were gang raped. Minorities alleged that government neither protected minorities nor made initiative to apprehend the Islamic fundamentalists. It was observed that police and some elements of then ruling party were involved in the violence. Initial report suggests total loss minority property worth 1480 millions Taka.

It is to be noted that when Mr. Nurul Islam Nahid (secretary of then all party alliance) was questioned about the HBCUC report, he agreed that the report was conservative estimate and actual number may increase. Mr. Nahid also stated that minorities of Sylhet district perhaps never experienced such brutal atrocities in past, atrocities of 1992 have made a permanent scar in the heart of minorities there. The Member of Parliament elected from Bhola Mr. Thofael Ahmed also agreed with the report prepared by HBCUC. He asserted that perhaps crimes against women and children were far more brutal than that described in the report.

According to leader of Awami League Mr. Shudangshu Shekhar Halder a total of 3600 temples and 28000 domiciles were completely destroyed in 6th December. The total cost of damage is more than 2000 millions Taka.

Some asserted that the atrocities of 1992 was far more brutal that that of 1950. During the atrocities of 1992 and 1990 minority women and children have become the victims of brutal crimes. In those atrocities women were not only gang raped brutally, they were forced to walk naked in the streets. Rape victims also include minors starting with age 5. In some villages, no women aged 5 to age 70 escaped the merciless attack of vicious Islamic fundamentalists. Years of oppressions and state sponsored discriminations have ended the minorities so fearful and vulnerable that the vicious Islamic fundamentalists never have to face any resistance during their medieval rampage against minorities.

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Analysis: Fears of Bangladeshi Hindus

Although Bangladesh was founded as a secular republic in 1971, a new provision was added in the country's constitution by the former military ruler General Ershad in the 1980s in which Islam has been declared as state religion.

Bangladesh slammed for persecution of Hindus

During and immediately after Bangladesh's Parliamentary election in October 2001, 'there were numerous reports of illegal land seizures, arson, extortion, sexual assault, and intimidation of religious minority group members, particularly Hindus'.

Recalling HAF's annual human rights report, Chowdhury said, "The low-scale religious cleansing of the already shrinking minority Hindu population in Bangladesh is of grave concern to not only the Hindu American Foundation but also to those who share the ethos of pluralism and tolerance."

Even after the decline of Hindu population in Bangladesh from 13.5% in 1974, just after the independence, Hindus were at around 9.2% of the population in 2001 according to government estimates following the census. However, Hindus accounted for only 4 members of the 300 member parliament following the 2001 elections through direct election; this went up to 5 following a by-election victory in 2004. Significantly, of the 45 seats reserved for women that are directly nominated by the Prime Minister, not a single one was allotted to a Hindu. Several Hindu advocacy groups in Bangladesh have demanded a return to a communal electorate system as existed during the Pakistan period, to enable a more equitable representation in parliament, or a reserved quota since persecution of Hindus continue since 1946.

So tell me why this BS is relevant to the topic?
Do you blame Islam for this aswell?
Troller
 
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Yes! The wolf in case of Pakistan is their own leadership and the United States of America. Pakistan has lost a decade of economic growth and is in a state of civil war because of the war on terror and their leaders' foreign policy to utilize terrorism as a form of cheap proxy war. They are suffering from the consequences of their own policies.

Just wearing a shipskin won't make you a sheep, there are dogs to hunt down wolves wearing sheepskin, pointing the fingers won't help you.
 
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Just wearing a shipskin won't make you a sheep, there are dogs to hunt down wolves wearing sheepskin, pointing the fingers won't help you.

The dogs have become rabid and are being neutralized.
 
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Documentation:

Hindu's killed during 1971:

World: Pakistan: The Ravaging of Golden Bengal



Hindus killed after 1971:

Primary Report

In 1992, more than a thousand women being gang raped, hundreds of temple demolished, houses of Hindu minorities were set ablaze and earthly possessions of minorities were looted. Those atrocities were preplanned and the proof of states involvement. It is the duty of the state to protect its citizen yet state has never tried to protect minorities during those atrocities although some incidents happen barely a quarter of a mile away from Police stations around the country. Some suggest that Jamat-I-Islami was planning the attack on minorities for a while which was known to the then government in 1992. At the night of 6th December, Jamat initiate its rain of terror in Chittagong. They went on rampage at Chittagong destroying temples, looting shops and houses and setting ablaze the domicile of Hindu minorities. At least three children were burned alive in Kutubdia. Latter the violence spread in Dhaka and other parts of the country.

Hindu, Buddha, Christian Unity Council (HBCUC) has visited various districts and prepared a list of property damages, gang rapes, arsons and loots after 6th December 1992. According to the report of HBCUC more than 28000 domiciles, 3500 temples/religious foundations and 2500 commercial establishments were either damaged or completely destroyed. At least 15 people were slaughtered and hundreds of others wounded and 2400 women were gang raped. Minorities alleged that government neither protected minorities nor made initiative to apprehend the Islamic fundamentalists. It was observed that police and some elements of then ruling party were involved in the violence. Initial report suggests total loss minority property worth 1480 millions Taka.

It is to be noted that when Mr. Nurul Islam Nahid (secretary of then all party alliance) was questioned about the HBCUC report, he agreed that the report was conservative estimate and actual number may increase. Mr. Nahid also stated that minorities of Sylhet district perhaps never experienced such brutal atrocities in past, atrocities of 1992 have made a permanent scar in the heart of minorities there. The Member of Parliament elected from Bhola Mr. Thofael Ahmed also agreed with the report prepared by HBCUC. He asserted that perhaps crimes against women and children were far more brutal than that described in the report.

According to leader of Awami League Mr. Shudangshu Shekhar Halder a total of 3600 temples and 28000 domiciles were completely destroyed in 6th December. The total cost of damage is more than 2000 millions Taka.

Some asserted that the atrocities of 1992 was far more brutal that that of 1950. During the atrocities of 1992 and 1990 minority women and children have become the victims of brutal crimes. In those atrocities women were not only gang raped brutally, they were forced to walk naked in the streets. Rape victims also include minors starting with age 5. In some villages, no women aged 5 to age 70 escaped the merciless attack of vicious Islamic fundamentalists. Years of oppressions and state sponsored discriminations have ended the minorities so fearful and vulnerable that the vicious Islamic fundamentalists never have to face any resistance during their medieval rampage against minorities.

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Analysis: Fears of Bangladeshi Hindus

Although Bangladesh was founded as a secular republic in 1971, a new provision was added in the country's constitution by the former military ruler General Ershad in the 1980s in which Islam has been declared as state religion.

Bangladesh slammed for persecution of Hindus

During and immediately after Bangladesh's Parliamentary election in October 2001, 'there were numerous reports of illegal land seizures, arson, extortion, sexual assault, and intimidation of religious minority group members, particularly Hindus'.

Recalling HAF's annual human rights report, Chowdhury said, "The low-scale religious cleansing of the already shrinking minority Hindu population in Bangladesh is of grave concern to not only the Hindu American Foundation but also to those who share the ethos of pluralism and tolerance."

Even after the decline of Hindu population in Bangladesh from 13.5% in 1974, just after the independence, Hindus were at around 9.2% of the population in 2001 according to government estimates following the census. However, Hindus accounted for only 4 members of the 300 member parliament following the 2001 elections through direct election; this went up to 5 following a by-election victory in 2004. Significantly, of the 45 seats reserved for women that are directly nominated by the Prime Minister, not a single one was allotted to a Hindu. Several Hindu advocacy groups in Bangladesh have demanded a return to a communal electorate system as existed during the Pakistan period, to enable a more equitable representation in parliament, or a reserved quota since persecution of Hindus continue since 1946.

Bangladesh had no part in the events of 1971.

Siting Bangladesh - Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities (HRCBM) as a source actually speaks volume of your ability to determine credible source. This particular source is a front organization financed by your country.
All the report the site boast of has no valid link.

I took a look at each and every report about Bangladesh, there is none by AI about wholesale slaughter of the minorities.

If you went to school in US, you did not get your moneys worth. They should have taught you how to site credible sources. I suggest you demand a refund from that school.
 
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Bangladesh had no part in the events of 1971.

Siting Bangladesh - Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities (HRCBM) as a source actually speaks volume of your ability to determine credible source. This particular source is a front organization financed by your country.
All the report the site boast of has no valid link.

I took a look at each and every report about Bangladesh, there is none by AI about wholesale slaughter of the minorities.

If you went to school in US, you did not get your moneys worth. They should have taught you how to site credible sources. I suggest you demand a refund from that school.

The sources that I give will be a front organization financed by my country. Wow. If you are adamant on not looking at the proof, no proof will be sufficient. Talseema nasreen wrote a book on the plight of Hindus in Bangladesh. She is a Bangladeshi citizen. You need to read that book. And as far as citing sources go, I'm doing extremely well with the education I received in both India and United States! Thank you very much. You on the other hand are incapable of looking at other perspectives. That is the the first sign of radicalism. I wish you good luck in life and hope you'll realize and come to terms with truth one day.

By the way,

1) 'citing' not 'siting' is used when one quotes sources.

2) Ability is not measured in volumes.

3) Wholesale means selling in bulk and should not be used, use mass slaughter instead

4) The sources I have cited have reports from several independent agencies most of them are western and have corroborated the HRCBM report. USCIRF had placed bangladesh on its watch list from 2005 to 2008 and had criticized Bangaldesh for failing to protect its minorities.
 
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Oh please! dont give India's example as a role model for the Muslim World. Muslim countries like Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, are decades ahead of India. I am only talking about non oil producing countries. India has the largest number of AIDS patients, illiterate people, malnourished people, homeless, jobless people, and beggars in the world.
 
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Babri Masjid was destroyed by Hindu fundamentalist in recent days yet we almost spare all Hindu Mandir even though we could have bulldoze every single of them. But we ain't coward like you.

We still got about 8% Hindu in Bd and I doubt this guys will migrate to Hindu dominated country where bloody sub human caste system still part of social fabric. A cow get more respect in Bharat than low caste Hindus. ;)

holy cow :woot:
 
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The last 100 years have been tortuous for the Muslim world. The 20th century began with Britain and France splitting and grabbing Egypt and Morocco respectively, with the consent of the then US president. Incidentally, both these African states were independent at that time. World War I was more painful. With Turkey having lost, the vast Ottoman empire was carved up, mostly between France and Britain. Once again, the US president consented to the imperial push that finally resulted in the Palestine headache we face today. The Muslim world was traumatised, as one disaster followed another, right to the tragedy of Iraq. Muslim rulers, with rare exceptions, became pawns in the larger chessboard of world politics. The one gift from nature—crude oil—became a curse as Western powers sought to control this precious resource.

This frustration ultimately led to Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The Muslim world could have chosen another path, that taken by the India of Gandhi and Tagore. Sadly, there was no such towering figure among Muslims. The closest was Mohammed Ali Jinnah, who tragically lost himself in a power chase and ended up complicating the situation by creating a theological state that passed into the hands of mullahs, the army and Americans within years of his death. The only other big leader, Kemal Ataturk, refused to take on the role of Muslim leadership.

The problem was worsened by the absence of education, in particular, science education. The only science Nobel laureate from their fold, Abdus Salam, was an Ahmadi, and thus declared a non-Muslim. As leadership passed into the hands of the ulema, the focus shifted more drastically away from modernity. The ulema also brought their frightening theological infighting to the forefront of the Muslim world.

This was seen most frighteningly in the killing of about 100 Ahmadis in a Lahore mosque last month. Ahmadis are followers of Gulam Ahmed Mirza of Qadian, a religious reformer of the 19th century. He believed in Prophet Mohammed, but denied that He was the last prophet. All Muslims, including this author, believe that Mohammed was the last prophet. That belief is crucial to the purity of Islam. Yet, Ahmadis stood by their faith, and in a sense broke off from the larger Muslim world. It is to their credit that most Ahmadis are highly educated, non-violent and prosperous. Sadly, they have also been the target of religious persecution. The last attack in Lahore was not condemned by any religious party, either in Pakistan or India. I consider this a low point in the modern history of Muslims. I can only quote the Quran (42,15):

Lord and your Lord,
Unto us is the responsibility of our deeds,
Unto you is the responsibility of your deeds;
There is no argument between us and you,
Allah will bring us together.
Unto Him is the journeying.


Religious leaders must understand that there are sizable non-Muslim Allah is our populations living in Muslim countries. They too have human rights, just as Muslims living in non-Muslim countries have human rights. It is just and fair to speak out about the atrocities against the people of Gaza. But they must also speak out against the killings of Ahmadis. Their silence, even approval, destroys their credibility. The net loss will be of minorities everywhere. The pain and trauma suffered by innocents is stark and ugly, if they happen to be on the wrong side of a religious, caste, colour or language divide. This was understood by Prophet Mohammed when he pardoned all those who spent years trying to kill him. Similarly, Gandhiji foresaw the horrible after-effects partition would have. No wonder he spent Independence Day, 1947, fasting to bring about peace in Calcutta, and later, in his late seventies, walked barefoot through the killing fields of Noakhali and Bihar.

Muslim ulema must rise above their narrow parochial approach to life and religion. If it is okay to kill an Ahmadi today, tomorrow it will be okay to kill a Shia in Pakistan or a Sunni in Iran. Where will it all end? After all Allah calls Himself thus: “Rabbul Aalameen, the Lord of the Universe.” He is not Rabbul Muslimeen, Lord of Muslims alone.

Finally, Muslims must lower their obsession with the past. We can be good Muslims without going into a frenzy about who should have succeeded to the Khilafat after the Prophet. Karbala was a tragedy that has sheared the Muslim world for the last 1,300 years. Can’t we come out of this trauma and view Karbala as the heroic act of Prophet Mohammed’s grandson in not bowing before an underserved ruler. He could have easily submitted, and protected himself and his family. Yet, he refused on a moral point.

www.outlookindia.com | Submitting To Sense

the full verse of 42:15 42:15] 42:15] To this then go on inviting, and go on steadfastly on the right way as you are commanded, and do not follow their low desires, and say: I believe in what Allah has revealed of the Book, and I am commanded to do justice between you: Allah is our Lord and your Lord; we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; no plea need there be (now) between us and you: Allah will gather us together, and to Him is the return.

A beautiful verse of mutual coexistence and Religious tolerance
 
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