Su-35S overtakes F-22 in terms of ‘intellect’

[Esc8781]

Wow! Didn't know these guys knew the classified figures of the APG-77.

 

[Esc8781]

Wow! Didn't know these guys knew the classified figures of the APG-77. :

 

[dbc]

helo sister me fine ji hows you good to see you

I am well Guru Dutt. You didn't answer my question.

 

[vK_man]

I would trust proven systems. And you are quite mistaken with the Americans, they actually overestimate the system and then try to beat it. Till the 80's, Americans pilots and commanders thought that the Mig-23 was an aircraft that would kill them instantly once it got its wings swept forward. So they trained and worked with it till they found that even an average American pilot would score repeatedly over them.

It is folly for the Russians to make statements such as "intellectual" and "leap" when it comes to American Air power.

xport variants of Soviet military equipment were versions of Soviet military equipment (armored vehicles, airplanes, missiles) of significantly inferior capability to the original designs and intended only for export. Monkey model was the unofficial designation given by the Soviet Military to such variants. The monkey model was exported with the same or a similar designation as the original Soviet design but in fact it lacked many of the advanced or expensive features of the original.

Monkey-model weaponry was used mainly by non-communist Soviet allies, such as Egypt, Iraq and Syria. Eastern Bloc states generally used fully capable versions of Soviet weaponry, although poorer states often used earlier generations of weapons.

The term monkey model was popularized in the West by Viktor Suvorov, in Inside the Soviet Army. Suvorov states that the simplified monkey model was designed for massive production in wartime, to replace front-line stocks if a war should last for several weeks. In peacetime, Soviet industry gained experience building both standard and export-model variants, the latter being for sale "to the 'brothers' and 'friends' of the USSR as the very latest equipment available." He also cites the benefit of disinformation when an exported monkey model fell into the hands of Western intelligence, who "naturally gained a completely false impression of the true combat capabilities of the BMP-1 and of Soviet tanks" (Suvorov 1982:215).
Export variants of Soviet military equipment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Monkey-model aircraft were downgraded in a manner similar to that of tanks. The MiG-23 MS 'Flogger-E', for example, was an export variant the original MiG 23 developed because the MiG 23 was considered too advanced to be exported to Third World countries. The 'Flogger-E' lacked the most advanced features of the original. Infra-red search and track and beyond visual range missile capabilities were removed and its avionics suite was very basic. This variant was widely sold during the 1970s to Soviet allies in the Middle East.

Monkey model..

Right, supposedly because they were able to see more. The Russians claim that their aircraft is better.
The F-22 may see "only" 300km(unknown if that is the limit) but the 400km range is practically useless when the F-22 is going to be sitting 25km away from the Su-35 and the Flanker would be looking at a blank scope before he get hit by a missile and blown to smithereens. @gambit

Russians are not claiming better.They are saying that nearby a fifth gen fighter.

 

[SQ8]

Monkey model..

Not always monkey models. The training mentioned assumed that the Mig would win. That it was a superior airplane in all respects. That is the mentality that the USAF takes into a fight and trains to fight with. When that training is put to the test, the results are quite plain to see. Moreover, thanks to the dissolution of the USSR; the USAF is no longer training against Monkey models(unless off course you imply that the MKI and MKM are monkey models). They train with whatever the Russians throw into the field and still dominate.

 

[vK_man]

Not always monkey models. The training mentioned assumed that the Mig would win. That it was a superior airplane in all respects. That is the mentality that the USAF takes into a fight and trains to fight with. When that training is put to the test, the results are quite plain to see. Moreover, thanks to the dissolution of the USSR; the USAF is no longer training against Monkey models(unless off course you imply that the MKI and MKM are monkey models). They train with whatever the Russians throw into the field and still dominate.

Monkey-model aircraft were downgraded in a manner similar to that of tanks. The MiG-23 MS 'Flogger-E', for example, was an export variant the original MiG 23 developed because the MiG 23 was considered too advanced to be exported to Third World countries. The 'Flogger-E' lacked the most advanced features of the original. Infra-red search and track and beyond visual range missile capabilities were removed and its avionics suite was very basic. This variant was widely sold during the 1970s to Soviet allies in the Middle East.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...kes-f-22-terms-intellect-3.html#ixzz2h9XJyf7q

On the mig. I don't know whether Su-30 MKI is superior or inferior to russian Su-27. But Russians focus more on the ADM network rather than fighters these days. USSR is no more and USA has the largest defence budget so its obvious that US equipment will be better in many aspects.

Second,

They train with whatever the Russians throw into the field and still dominate.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-wa...kes-f-22-terms-intellect-3.html#ixzz2h9XxFV63

There was indo-us exercise of indian su-30 mki and f-15 some years back. I think Su-30 dominated then.But then against F-22 I doubt Su-30 will dominate .

 

[DrSomnath999]

do you really beleave in that i guess russians are way too smart even SU 35S has ASEA Radar that too multi band + OLS and Passive sensors like spectra whch combined are very much capable of detecting &tracking the F22 before it con fire its missiles on SU 35 dont worry americans have a habit of degrading and making fun of there powerfull enemies/opponents which they cant control

who told u that Su 35 has AESA radar? , Irbis-E is a PESA radar

OLS-35 is good but handicaps ( not reliable in adverse climate , it's accuracy at 90km can be doubted )may be OLS-50 of Pak-fa
hold promise.F 22 has very good IR signature reduction though claims of IRST detecting F22 at such great range can be taken with a pinch of salt

Yes Su 35 RWR is known to have some interferometric technolgy applications & it can be used for targeting

But i would tell u something

1) F22's Aesa radar is technlogically more advanced than SU 35 Irbis -E though it may be having longer detection range than F22's radar but no radar till date now have detected F22 more than 90km head on so it would nt be meaningless to boast such claims of having 400 km detection range against F22

2)It would be suicide for those pilots who would use it's own radar against F22/rafale as their RWR can not only detect it's EM emissions at far more distance than the enemy plane's radar would have detect it & not only that it can cue it's air to air missiles without turning on it's own aesa radar for stealth reason.


CHEERS

 

[SQ8]

On the mig. I don't know whether Su-30 MKI is superior or inferior to russian Su-27. But Russians focus more on the ADM network rather than fighters these days. USSR is no more and USA has the largest defence budget so its obvious that US equipment will be better in many aspects.

Second,


There was indo-us exercise of indian su-30 mki and f-15 some years back. I think Su-30 dominated then.But then against F-22 I doubt Su-30 will dominate .

That was cope India, in which the F-15s were handicapped. Still, the training and tactics of the IAF(and the fact that most of the time TACDE pilots flew) was responsible for the results.

 

[Infinity]

Mulla Nitish Khan is also in list, For keeping him name out of fodder scam, he traded with devil... All Hail Slaves..

When BJP becomes biggest party in 2014 use the Same strategy to get Mulla Nitish's support.................

 

[MULUBJA]

We are already going for Super MKI

But I heard that Super MKI is not a match for Su 35 Or india may be waiting for Su37?

 

[Viper0011.]

The Su-35S has already overtaken the only fifth generation fighter to enter service to date the American F-22 Raptor. Thus, the ‘Irbis’ radar control system fitted to the Su-35S is able to detect an airborne target at a record distance of up to 400 km and of tracking up to 30 targets and engaging 8 simultaneously[/B]. The radar system on the F-22 is weaker: the maximum detection range is only 300 km.

It is always amusing to read crap like the above!!! Just a hint, the DAS system on the JSF can take an image and provide identification on a small missile launch some 800 miles away. And THAT's the JSF....a step below the F-22. And you guys will openly believe that the -22's radar range is mere 300? The US would NEVER disclose secrets about this ultimate weapon. Being Stealth is JUST ONE part of this package. There is a TON more that will always remain classified. Or for the next three decades at least until a successor weapon system is produced by the militry indusrial complex!! You can definitely build stealth if you havethe money. You CAN'T build the -22's or similar packages. At least not for the next decade and a half, even considering the current Chinese and Russian weapon systems being designed !

 

[Viper0011.]

There was indo-us exercise of indian su-30 mki and f-15 some years back. I think Su-30 dominated then.But then against F-22 I doubt Su-30 will dominate .

The purpose of that exercise to meet and greet the Indian AF with the USAF due to the ongoing relationships between the two militaries and to learn about the SU-30. The US always does exercises by giving the other party ful advantage while handicapping its own pilots. So that was the case here. Plus the -15 pilots weren't allowed to use their standard engagement tactics i.e. engage from the BVR.
The US pilots were limited in what or how they can engage. The best training is not the one where you are told to show superiority, the best training is the one where you are already setup as an inferior party and you use your brain and tactics to win against an adversary with all kinds of advantages. The idea is that you'll lose. But, in that process, you've paid so much attention due to being an inferior adversary that you now know the other platform very well and the lessons won't fade away from your memory. Plus, the visitor gets a smile on their face due to winning. Everybody is happy

Last, please DON'T compare the SU-30 against the -22. The -22 will chicken roast about half the squadron of an inbound SU_ANYTHING before the others can even see an image or a beep on their radar screen identifying the -22. This thing called -22 has unbelievable capability....

 

[gambit]

do you really beleave in that i guess russians are way too smart even SU 35S has ASEA Radar that too multi band + OLS and Passive sensors like spectra whch combined are very much capable of detecting &tracking the F22 before it con fire its missiles on SU 35 dont worry americans have a habit of degrading and making fun of there powerfull enemies/opponents which they cant control

Sorry, but you are dreaming.

To start off...I explained how the SPECTRA and its derivatives can be defeated, especially by a first world EW system like ours, and SPECTRA is not for detection but an attempt to deceive a seeking radar, in essence, it is countermeasure. To detect its target, the F-22 with its LPI AESA system have nothing to fear from SPECTRA.

Having an AESA alone does not guarantee a capable system. In fact, having an AESA but not commensurate software to exploit its capability is overkill and a waste of money. The more capable an adversary's countermeasures, the greater the need for LPI, and right now, we are the best in both producing LPI signals to bypass countermeasures and discrimination of LPI signals from background as part of counermeasures. I do not expect you or anyone, least of all our Russians friends here, to believe that.

Against the F-22, any adversary is likely to face a no-win scenario:

- If he blast the atmosphere with power, especially in the long wavelengths, to try to detect the F-22, he advertises himself and the F-22 do not need to go active to kill him. The F-22's passive sensor system can calculate the most likely source direction of those transmissions and pass that information to an AMRAAM. The AMRAAM itself also does not need to go active. It can stay in beamrider mode until the last couple seconds to the target.

- If he go silent in trying to pass through a line of F-22s, the likelihood of him being scanned by an LPI transmission is high and he will be revealed anyway.

The Su-35 is ALREADY dead.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Sorry, but you are dreaming.

To start off...I explained how the SPECTRA and its derivatives can be defeated, especially by a first world EW system like ours, and SPECTRA is not for detection but an attempt to deceive a seeking radar, in essence, it is countermeasure. To detect its target, the F-22 with its LPI AESA system have nothing to fear from SPECTRA.

Having an AESA alone does not guarantee a capable system. In fact, having an AESA but not commensurate software to exploit its capability is overkill and a waste of money. The more capable an adversary's countermeasures, the greater the need for LPI, and right now, we are the best in both producing LPI signals to bypass countermeasures and discrimination of LPI signals from background as part of counermeasures. I do not expect you or anyone, least of all our Russians friends here, to believe that.

Against the F-22, any adversary is likely to face a no-win scenario:

- If he blast the atmosphere with power, especially in the long wavelengths, to try to detect the F-22, he advertises himself and the F-22 do not need to go active to kill him. The F-22's passive sensor system can calculate the most likely source direction of those transmissions and pass that information to an AMRAAM. The AMRAAM itself also does not need to go active. It can stay in beamrider mode until the last couple seconds to the target.

- If he go silent in trying to pass through a line of F-22s, the likelihood of him being scanned by an LPI transmission is high and he will be revealed anyway.

The Su-35 is ALREADY dead.

Thanks you sir actualli i do like defence related topics but im no expert not even near to one like you all i wanted to say was that given current situation SU35 is much muxch better option for IAF as a multi role fighter jet at a very reasonable price if IAF some how makes an arrangement of an ASEA for it i dont think owr immidiate opponents will have anything to counter in near future