Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[faisalwali786]

Well the day SU 30 MKI will be planing attack , it will be detected much before by Pakistani AWACS ; rest will be a fight no matter whatever technology will be there. Todays war is a complex game. Only the best of mind will win.

 

[peace prophet]

Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

IMHO, Its like King-Cobra fighting an earth-worm.

(SU30 being the cobra ofcourse )

 

[notorious_eagle]

A quick question to the air combat enthusiasts.. Will it matter when does Su 30's radar will aquire JF 17.

Yes it will, whoever detects first can get into position and start laying traps for the opposing aircraft. In my opinion both aircrafts will detect each other at roughly the same time, MKI's huge RCS with those giant engines will be hard to miss especially since AWACS have been introduced to the subcontinent.

Isnt it possible for the 17 to be aquired by the AWACS (150 KM inside Indian territory) and be shot down by a missile from an SU 30 without SU even having to actively track and lock the 17???

Which missile does India has in its inventory that can fire 150 km? The MKI can definitely fire its BVRAAM and let the AWAC guide it into the opposing aircraft. In modern day warfare, i am willing to bet that the pilot of MKI will never fire his missiles at maximum range. If he fires his missile at maximum range the pilot for JF17 will have plenty of time to perform maneuvers to subdue missiles fired at him, besides by the time the missile reaches the opposing target it will likely be out of fuel. The pilot for JF17 will be aware of the MKI's presence and is unlikely to be caught off guard. More realistically the pilot for MKI will fire his missiles at a range of 60-70km, the exact range where the JF17 pilot will unleash his load. So, introducing the AWACS in subcontinent doesent look a good idea now does it

 

[jagjitnatt]

Well the day SU 30 MKI will be planing attack , it will be detected much before by Pakistani AWACS ; rest will be a fight no matter whatever technology will be there. Todays war is a complex game. Only the best of mind will win.

AWACS would play an important role but it would only offer detection features. I highly doubt it can provide serious guidance to medium range air to air missiles.

In order to fire a missile the fighter has to be in 50-60 km range when head to head. There would be no advantage of guiding it through AWACS when the fighter can itself guide it at that range.

AWACS would come in handy in case of missile with range of more than 100 km, which PAF doesn't possess.

ALSO even if Erieye detects MKI at 200 km distance, it would need to send in fighters to take them out. And to take them out, PAF needs to fire missiles from fighters only. So anyways the fighter has to get in the range of the MKI.

So AWACS = detection
Fighters = do the real job.

 

[notorious_eagle]

IMHO, Its like King-Cobra fighting an earth-worm.

(SU30 being the cobra ofcourse )

Off course, after all SU30MKI is God's Gift to Aviation designed by God himself. It has a built in switch inside that automatically destroys the enemy's aircraft

 

[peace prophet]

Off course, after all SU30MKI is God's Gift to Aviation designed by God himself. It has a built in switch inside that automatically destroys the enemy's aircraft

Compare the specs for yourself.

Only J-10 can be comparable to Tejas MK2, forget alone j17.

Most importantly it is not chinese viz, raste ka maal saste me.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Compare the specs for yourself.

Only J-10 can be comparable to Tejas MK2, forget alone j17.

Most importantly it is not chinese viz, raste ka maal saste me.

First atleast get MK1 into service, then plzz talk about MK2.

 

[peace prophet]

First atleast get MK1 into service, then plzz talk about MK2.

You are talking as if it will never get into service.

http://www.indian-military.org/news-archives/indian-air-force-news/534-induction-of-lca-tejas-into-iaf.html

 

[duhastmish]

threads - regarding -----tejas vs jf-17 and j10 already exist in n numbers. lets forget that vs issue.

awacs will matter alot in next battle , but then india also have some good awacs .

but here this more of some kid's fantasy thread - so lets nagotiate that awac factor may be. because as much i think therei s never goign to be full force PAF vs IAF war.

 

[TaimiKhan]

hiya tiami bro.

i am saying f-16 is top of the line fighter for paksitan.
and will remain so - reason being its superior avionics ,

and reliability. its been with paf for long time and PAF has biggest hand behind the sucess of f-16 .

and when it come to india - india has su-30 mki as top fighter , i bet against india's best paksitan would like send its best.

and f-16 will give a good run to su-30.

-as for rcs about some time ago - in PDF only it was discussed - in these vs thread - and i will search and find it. it was told to be around 3. something . and then it was told by some senior memeber who know what he utters. i wil lfind it too.

cheers.

Yes F-16s would be the one who would be engaging the MKIs. But kindly don't under estimate the FC-20s. They would be no less to F-16s in engine thrust, range, weapon carrying capacity and its dog fighting capabilities are good enough.

So now the game comes to avionics, well the current JF-17 radar is better then the current PAF F-16s APG-66 ones.

FC-20 is a much larger plane, with a much bigger nose thus can accommodate a much larger radar system.

Well if you guys wanna underestimate the Chinese toys, well then i can't say anything to that, but personally gone are the days when Chinese weapon systems were of no worth, in last one decade they have gone ahead and with these same weapons they are gonna fight their enemy. Do remember against these same Chinese toys, India is fielding their best MKIs. So if IAF is not taking these Chinese toys lightly, so shouldn't you guys.

And 50-60 Blk 52s are not gonna contain the 250 or so MKIs, thus FC-20s are gonna supplement the Blk 52s in containing the mighty MKIs. In underestimating FC-20s by the enemy lies PAF success, the same way people underestimate the JF-17s.

And as for RCS, well there is no official figure, nor we can guess as no one knows about JF-17 fully. It is smaller in size and shape compared to F-16s, and has DSI intakes which give it further reduction in its RCS.

If MKIs have a 5m2 RCS, then saying JF-17 has 3.5m2 would be unjustified, as JF-17 is much smaller compared to MKIs.

Plus, FC-20s are yet 4-5 years away, so there is much room for improvement and make it capable enough to take on a MKI.

So lets wait and let the final product come in.

 

[TaimiKhan]

You are talking as if it will never get into service.

Induction of LCA Tejas into IAF

I did not said its not gonna enter the service, i said first get the Mk1 series into service, then talk about the Mk2 series.

And do read more about LCA, its more into the JF-17 class compared to J-10 class.

 

[duhastmish]

Yes F-16s would be the one who would be engaging the MKIs. But kindly don't under estimate the FC-20s. They would be no less to F-16s in engine thrust, range, weapon carrying capacity and its dog fighting capabilities are good enough.

So now the game comes to avionics, well the current JF-17 radar is better then the current PAF F-16s APG-66 ones.

FC-20 is a much larger plane, with a much bigger nose thus can accommodate a much larger radar system.

Well if you guys wanna underestimate the Chinese toys, well then i can't say anything to that, but personally gone are the days when Chinese weapon systems were of no worth, in last one decade they have gone ahead and with these same weapons they are gonna fight their enemy. Do remember against these same Chinese toys, India is fielding their best MKIs. So if IAF is not taking these Chinese toys lightly, so shouldn't you guys.

And 50-60 Blk 52s are not gonna contain the 250 or so MKIs, thus FC-20s are gonna supplement the Blk 52s in containing the mighty MKIs. In underestimating FC-20s by the enemy lies PAF success, the same way people underestimate the JF-17s.

And as for RCS, well there is no official figure, nor we can guess as no one knows about JF-17 fully. It is smaller in size and shape compared to F-16s, and has DSI intakes which give it further reduction in its RCS.

If MKIs have a 5m2 RCS, then saying JF-17 has 3.5m2 would be unjustified, as JF-17 is much smaller compared to MKIs.

Plus, FC-20s are yet 4-5 years away, so there is much room for improvement and make it capable enough to take on a MKI.

So lets wait and let the final product come in.

i would not even go and state anything substantial about fc-20, lets wait and let them be out, who knows by the time pakistan gets its fc-20 , they might be alreayd making a deal for j-xx or j-14 or stealth bomber who knows.
but those are all speculation , fc-20 has a good airframe.

but still i think that chinese avionics can not match western in next 8-10 years.
f-16 is well established platform with a very good avionics, and yes the newly bought f-16 , i think they have a better radar system, than anyhting jf-17 can offer in near future.

it will be even childish to compare jf-17 with beauty f-16.

lets not create hype around jf-17 like most indian create around su-30 mki , calling it right next to f-22.

 

[notorious_eagle]

i would not even go and state anything substantial about fc-20, lets wait and let them be out, who knows by the time pakistan gets its fc-20 , they might be alreayd making a deal for j-xx or j-14 or stealth bomber who knows.
but those are all speculation , fc-20 has a good airframe.

but still i think that chinese avionics can not match western in next 8-10 years.
f-16 is well established platform with a very good avionics, and yes the newly bought f-16 , i think they have a better radar system, than anyhting jf-17 can offer in near future.

it will be even childish to compare jf-17 with beauty f-16.

lets not create hype around jf-17 like most indian create around su-30 mki , calling it right next to f-22.

Nodoubt the F16 is a proven platform, this plane has been loved and adored by PAF pilots since the day it was inducted. Now that being said, it is a fact that JF17 is a better aircraft than our Block 15's. I am not saying this, the pilots flying JF17's and F16's are saying this.

The reason for that being is because JF17 has better avionics, radar and EW capabilites. In mock A2A engagements, our JF17's have constantly nailed our F16's. They were put through the grind in A2A and A2G operations during High Mark excercises, they performed exceptionally well. Now coming to the topic of dogfighting; JF17's are more maneuverable but the F16 are more agile. Out of the entire F16 series, Block 15's are the most maneuverable lot. Nobody here is cooking up stories about the capabilites of JF17, but it certinely has exceeded our expectations.

 

[hataf]

now that I thin about it, I think duastmish is right. More likely than not if a fight ever happens it will probaly be f-16 block 52 vs mki. I don't even know what techonologies the j-10b has, the only information we know about it are just interent rumors. The chinese haven't relased any information about it.

And will Pakistan be getting the j-10b??????? how do we know its not the
j-10a

if we are acquiring it in 2014 or 2015

than its definately j-10 b

 

[karan.1970]

Yes it will, whoever detects first can get into position and start laying traps for the opposing aircraft. In my opinion both aircrafts will detect each other at roughly the same time, MKI's huge RCS with those giant engines will be hard to miss especially since AWACS have been introduced to the subcontinent.



Which missile does India has in its inventory that can fire 150 km? The MKI can definitely fire its BVRAAM and let the AWAC guide it into the opposing aircraft. In modern day warfare, i am willing to bet that the pilot of MKI will never fire his missiles at maximum range. If he fires his missile at maximum range the pilot for JF17 will have plenty of time to perform maneuvers to subdue missiles fired at him, besides by the time the missile reaches the opposing target it will likely be out of fuel. The pilot for JF17 will be aware of the MKI's presence and is unlikely to be caught off guard. More realistically the pilot for MKI will fire his missiles at a range of 60-70km, the exact range where the JF17 pilot will unleash his load. So, introducing the AWACS in subcontinent doesent look a good idea now does it

So let me try to rephrase the question, since I think I was not clear the 1st time.

What I wanted to know is if the following is a viable scenario

A phalcon 150 Km inside Indian territory is able to paint a 17 upto 200-250 km inside Pakistan territory. So a JF 17 about 100 km inside Pakistan air space gets painted by the Phalcon and a SU 30 from about 80-90 KM away from 17 lets loose a BVRAAM and turns back well before JF 17 can lock on to it and lets the phalcon guide the BVRAAM in..