Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Zob]

you mentioned only cost and rcs .

jf-17 is cheaper than mki . true . but jf-17 i think is the cheapest modern fighter .

jf-17 has less life cycle cost than mki . true . but look at the diff b/w them .

in the present scenario unfortunately jf-17 is no match to mki . we can discuss it for hours but we will still reach the same conclusion .!

this is a master piece you say true JF-17 is cheapest modern fighter....true it has a less life cycle cost... but it is not a match....why mr.einsten tell me how you made such a huge breakthrough....i bet you have no clue about what the capabilites of the MKI are...u r just a typical fan boy who comes from reading a few articles on BR and just tries to put your conclusions on things....

 

[Super Falcon]

can our new F 16 block 50/52 can gine run of money for SU 30

 

[godsavetheworld]

can our new F 16 block 50/52 can gine run of money for SU 30

Never, even the candid video released after Red Flag, shows a Colonel explaining exactly that. I quote

How did they Fly? There is a lot of stuff on the subject in the newspapers and magazines about this airplane. There's a great video on youtube, where somebody shows the F-22 flying its demo, and the Su-30MK, side by side, and he does the exact same demonstration, as the F-22. And an airshow, then can do the same demonstration. The reality is, that's about as close as the airplanes ever get. When you compare it with US airplanes; where does it stand up against the F-16 and F-15, it's a tad bit better than we are(holds his palm higher than the other arm). And that's pretty impressive, it has better radar, more thrust, vectored thrust, longer ranged weapons, so it's pretty impressive. The Sukhoi is a tad bit better (holds arm at chest level, and the other arm signifying the Sukhoi a wee bit higher). But now compare with the F-22 Raptor, the raptor is here. (holds palm way above his head - signifying that the aircraft is much better)

 

[Kharian_Beast]

^ Did you hear about the part where he said the F-16's drilled the SU30MKI's brains out with only guns? It might be flashy, but in no way is it immune to lock on and simple tactics that exploit its weaknesses (gigantic rcs/heat signature, cumbersome size, etc.)

 

[godsavetheworld]

^ Did you hear about the part where he said the F-16's drilled the SU30MKI's brains out with only guns? It might be flashy, but in no way is it immune to lock on.

Yea I agree. But yo should also appreciate the context in which the comment was made. He was explaining why the IAF failed and had several kills/friendles. Su-30's were literally blind, they were not using their radars, and therefore could not anticipate the enemy. When you have fighters locking onto others, only the most agile survive if they are not blind.

Also the above comment I have mentioned above, was made after he talked about how "F-16 could easily lock onto MKI's."

And to add, MKI outperformed F-16 during Cope India. USAF admitted that.

 

[messenger]

this is a master piece you say true JF-17 is cheapest modern fighter....true it has a less life cycle cost... but it is not a match....why mr.einsten tell me how you made such a huge breakthrough....i bet you have no clue about what the capabilites of the MKI are...u r just a typical fan boy who comes from reading a few articles on BR and just tries to put your conclusions on things....

you can only bash BR , dont you .

well you dont have to be Einstein to see the difference . you tell me one area except RCS in which jf-17 outclasses mki in a dogfight .

if you see it as a disrespect to jf-17 , then its your fault . what i see is comparison b/w 4 gen and 4.5 gen aircraft .



[ and please learn to spell the name correctly ]

 

[RAZOR]

guys whatever you say no one ever describes it better than mastankhan sir

Araz,

Indeed we all need to have a reality check---possibly sanity check would be the right word for the majority of the members here---when one pitches a jf 17---a plane not even in service yet---against a top notch plane the SU 30---an extremely seasoned platform and weapons system---I guess under the circumstance, I need some moments of hallucination as well---now don't everyone desreve to have their own personal pipe's dream!!! So what is wrong if I do want to have mine over here.

 

[hj786]

in the present scenario unfortunately jf-17 is no match to mki . we can discuss it for hours but we will still reach the same conclusion .!

No, YOU will reach the same conclusion WITHOUT discussing anything, because you are a fanboy.

dont you think that mki also has helmet mounted cueing system
and dude you still not sure which aircraft has better manoeuvrablity .
how can you drag AWACS into the conversation . we are discussing jf-17 and mki not AWACS . we have got better AWACS than you . compare them on the basis on their own radars .

Don't you think that JF-17 also has HMCS?
Dragging AEWC into the equation is perfectly acceptable because it is the big equaliser. It negates your sukhoi's radar advantage.

I don't care how many times you shout mki is better or phalcon is better, I'm being realistic by focusing on the actual facts here, not "mine is better than yours" BS. Your AWACS isn't good enough to stop PAF's AEWCs seeing everything InAF does near the border, so who cares if it's better? Only Indian fanboys like you, not the PAF.

you can only bash BR , dont you .

Why shouldn't he? BR is full of racism against Chinese and Pakistani people.

well you dont have to be Einstein to see the difference . you tell me one area except RCS in which jf-17 outclasses mki in a dogfight .
if you see it as a disrespect to jf-17 , then its your fault . what i see is comparison b/w 4 gen and 4.5 gen aircraft .
[ and please learn to spell the name correctly ]

If you see JF as something that cannot compare to mki, then its your fault. If you want people to spell correctly, first you use capital letters and punctuation properly.

And to add, MKI outperformed F-16 during Cope India. USAF admitted that.

So you will happily shout "USA admitted mki outperformed F-16", but you won't admit any of the following:
- It was not real combat, it was an exercise designed to improve relations between air forces.
- As per an ex-PAF instructor pilot who has observed Red Flag exercises in the USA, it does not compare to real air combat exercises.
- F-16 and F-15 WHOOPED the mki in this exercise to the point where InAF pilots did not want to do any more dogfighting.
- In Cope India, F-15 also was also heavily handicapped - not allowed to use it's radar and AMRAAM capability properly.

Isn't that a double standard Mr savetheworld? You'll happily accept anything to make the sukhoi look good, but you refuse to show both sides of the story?

Razor, until MastanKhan explains why PAF increased their order of 150 JF-17 to 250 even after the war on terror allowed them to buy the F-16, Typhoon, Rafale, or any other Western 4.5 gen jet, I will disregard what he says about JF being worthless.

 

[Keysersoze]

Messenger, I think you need to "wind your neck in" attitudes like yours don't last long

 

[Munir]

I think India should hire these armchair pilots cause they have great knowledge and maybe will raise the chances for IAF the next time...

 

[maverick2009]

From My understanding The War on Terror has nothing to do with PAF not acquiring the Typhoon.

The sole reason PAF has not ordered even a small batch of 36 Typhoons or indeed Rafale is the enormous cost.

Approx 3 times the cost of the J10/FC20...

USA is the only country i am aware of that has prevented PAF from acquiring some platforms.

 

[messenger]

No, YOU will reach the same conclusion WITHOUT discussing anything, because you are a fanboy.


Don't you think that JF-17 also has HMCS?
Dragging AEWC into the equation is perfectly acceptable because it is the big equaliser. It negates your sukhoi's radar advantage.

I don't care how many times you shout mki is better or phalcon is better, I'm being realistic by focusing on the actual facts here, not "mine is better than yours" BS. Your AWACS isn't good enough to stop PAF's AEWCs seeing everything InAF does near the border, so who cares if it's better? Only Indian fanboys like you, not the PAF.


Why shouldn't he? BR is full of racism against Chinese and Pakistani people.


If you see JF as something that cannot compare to mki, then its your fault. If you want people to spell correctly, first you use capital letters and punctuation properly.


So you will happily shout "USA admitted mki outperformed F-16", but you won't admit any of the following:
- It was not real combat, it was an exercise designed to improve relations between air forces.
- As per an ex-PAF instructor pilot who has observed Red Flag exercises in the USA, it does not compare to real air combat exercises.
- F-16 and F-15 WHOOPED the mki in this exercise to the point where InAF pilots did not want to do any more dogfighting.
- In Cope India, F-15 also was also heavily handicapped - not allowed to use it's radar and AMRAAM capability properly.

Isn't that a double standard Mr savetheworld? You'll happily accept anything to make the sukhoi look good, but you refuse to show both sides of the story?

Razor, until MastanKhan explains why PAF increased their order of 150 JF-17 to 250 even after the war on terror allowed them to buy the F-16, Typhoon, Rafale, or any other Western 4.5 gen jet, I will disregard what he says about JF being worthless.

yes mr defene analysist can you answer my simple question that i asked in my post.

he said jf-17 has HMCS with extreme pride . see his post . then i said mki also has HMCS . this shows you dont read posts carefully .

and dude be practical . you think your AWACS would be able to cover all 230 mki's .

and when you are comparing aircrafts , you are comparing them and not AWACS .i dont understand his everytime we start a debate on mki vs jf-17 / f-16 or any other PAF fighter . the first thing pakistani members do is drag AWACS . and if you still want to do this , you can change the name of the thread to jf-17 + AWACS vs mki .

and about BR . you say it's all racism . what you dont want to believe , you tag it as racism .



can you plz tell me what are the facts that you are focusing on . you see actually im a fanboy , so im a little short on info .


"""""If you want people to spell correctly, first you use capital letters and punctuation properly.""""""

this just shows how desperate you are .

 

[gromell]

Why are we comparing these two?! I mean every single Pakistani knows deep inside, Jf-17 can not stand infront of Su-30MKI in any circumstance(forget about strategy and real time situation;we wouldnt have to talk then), unless you severely handicap the Su-30 pilot or put the 21st century Red Baron in the Jf-17

 

[gromell]

Pakistan needs J-10 or now that Indians have shown some serious blunder, Pakistan may go for Rafale!

 

[PAFAce]

and dude be practical . you think your AWACS would be able to cover all 230 mki's .

You're going to have a tough time having even one complete squadron of MKIs in the air at any given moment in time, what with all their reliability and operational issues. You seem to be a big fan of the Red Flag video, why don't you go watch it again. So, yes, as far as Pakistani border goes, the AWACS will offer great coverage, but realistically, not all MKIs could be covered.

and when you are comparing aircrafts , you are comparing them and not AWACS .i dont understand his everytime we start a debate on mki vs jf-17 / f-16 or any other PAF fighter.

Well, if we went platform vs platform, there wouldn't be much to debate at all. On paper, the MKI wins hands down because it is, as you say, 4.5 Gen. We are discussing real scenarios here, and AWACS, intelligence, strategy, training, operational readiness, air defense ground environment etc. all come into the mix. This is why I mentioned all those things including LCC, MTBF etc. in my post above. In a real scenario, these things matter. There is no point in having 230 MKIs if u can't get one up in the air for 15 minutes. You're better off flying the old "coffins".

and about BR . you say it's all racism . what you dont want to believe , you tag it as racism.

Well, not to get side-tracked, but we don't refer to Indians as anything but Indians on this forum. If you go to BR, you see a lot of Porkistani, Bakristani etc. type name-calling. That is racism in its purest form. Seriously, the average IQ level of that forum must be negative. It is a very, very poor representation of your nation. If you care about how others view your country, you must criticize BR as well.

Lastly, you are correct, according to the USAF pilot (the same pilot that Indian fanboys hate) the MKI is slightly better than the F-16s, but that slight difference can be remedied by strategy and tactics. The USAF wasn't playing defense, they were on the offense (hence the name, Agressors), whereas the PAF's primary priority woul dbe defense of Pakistani airspace. Don't take Cope India or Red Flag as a real Indo-Pak situation. These should just be used as indicators.