Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[zombie:-)]

Let me post something about DRFM and you will understand that MKI will have almost zero tooths...

some people call MKI an elephant because of its rcs which again is a mistaken term somewhere i had posted the true meaning of rcs ....anyways there is a saying in hindi "haathi ke khaane ke daant aur dikhaaneke daant alag hote hain" an elephants biting teeth and tuskers are different ....back to the topic i think LCAs post is not suitable and anyway i understood that RF signals will be stored in the memory but how can you persuade a missile to lose lock ...can the signas which are encrypted be deciphered if not how can you know whars in the signal?????? would be better if you posted the source link

 

[maverick2009]

Su30 mki = Is Sleek Vey fast and very agile. ITS hardly an elephant.

F15 of USA/Israel are huge fighters but they are stil an awesome Air dominance fighter.

Low RCS is really vital but other factors are even more paramount

Engine power,, WEAPONS MIX, radar ,agility situational wareness and jammers ECM THEY ARE even more vital.

Hawk or LCA has low RCS but cannot it tangle with F15 which has a huge RCS.

i think not !!!!!!!

 

[Munir]

If you see how well radars are now compared to a decade ago then you would understand that there is a reason why Israeli and others are willing to replace their elephants...

The RCS of MKI is huge. Believe me. I do not have to share the technical details but if you read some on google you will understand. Just read the part I posted about RCS. That is more reliable then someone telling me that it is sleek or nice... If the design was that good then it would never have two vertical tails... No huge brake or those added features around the intake... Hell, those pylons or attached BVR's are even more funny... Just for discussion... How do you judge its RCS?

 

[zombie:-)]

If you see how well radars are now compared to a decade ago then you would understand that there is a reason why Israeli and others are willing to replace their elephants...

The RCS of MKI is huge. Believe me. I do not have to share the technical details but if you read some on google you will understand. Just read the part I posted about RCS. That is more reliable then someone telling me that it is sleek or nice... If the design was that good then it would never have two vertical tails... No huge brake or those added features around the intake... Hell, those pylons or attached BVR's are even more funny... Just for discussion... How do you judge its RCS?

seriously stop contradicting yourself ....had a look at your AVATAR ...the way you put things it seems the two verical stabilizers are put becoz the aircraft is in serious trouble and only heavy fighters have it .....the avatar is JSF right

 

[zombie:-)]

double post

 

[maverick2009]

Ae the Israelis Replacing F15.

i THINK NOT.

They have ordered JSF approx 40 to begin with.

These are due to replace F16 blocka/b (The oldest F16s in IDAF since 1982)

The F15 will go thru a MLU will remain in IDAF service till at least 2025..

Even USA will retain several hundred F15s till 2025 SINCE THE F22 is so expensive at $150m each.

 

[messenger]

messenger
Although PC has answered your answers with facts, I think its time to go back to your IAF website and learn some more before you jump in Again in a debate. With your discussion I put you between 18 to 20. At-least know which planes were flying in which war thats a start.

you lost me sir . you seem to read only pc's comment .

my father once told me a of a pakistani pilot which came on international media during the war of 65 . he on TV said he downed many indian planes and seemed very proud but after some reasearch it came out that he had not faced even a single indian fighter in air , he just destroyed indian fighters stationed on ground .

 

[PAFAce]

my father once told me a of a pakistani pilot which came on international media during the war of 65 . he on TV said he downed many indian planes and seemed very proud but after some reasearch it came out that he had not faced even a single indian fighter in air , he just destroyed indian fighters stationed on ground .

I bet, the people who did the "research" were Indian. And your father is Indian too, isn't he? Surely, you took that story with a grain of salt. I do not mean to disrespect your father, but true-stories have a strange way of turning into tales. The Indians still do not give much due credit to PAF fighters in the 1965 war, despite the amazing destruction they delivered. Saying that the planes were grounded when they were destroyed is a convenient way of escaping the humiliation of air-to-air, man-to-man defeat.

MuradK, on the other hand, is an Air Force veteran and is as reliable a source as any IAF veteran. His point was, you should brush up on your IAF history before you post next, and not rely on hear-say so much.

Edit Oh man, I just read some of your previous posts. Seriously bro, read a book or two on the subject. Just a few things:

- The IAF did operate Mig-21s in 1965 (one squadron, if I am not mistaken, to counter PAF F-104 Starfighters). The Americans were very interested in seeing how their F-104s would perform against the Soviet Mig-21s in dogfights, but that showdown didn't happen until 1971 (when in three encounters, the Mig-21 shot down one F-104).
- PAF had nothing to do with anything in 1962. In 1962, it was the Chinese that put you in your place (quite literally).
- In 1971, a greater number of IAF planes were destroyed than the PAF, which usually means victory in any sport. However, due to the separation of East Pakistan, most Pakistanis still believe the 1971 war to be a loss, unaware that the PAF once again performed outstandingly.

I don't even know why you guys are replying to the noobs on this thread.

To keep the morale high. Easy pickings, sir, easy pickings.

 

[messenger]

I bet, the people who did the "research" were Indian. And your father is Indian too, isn't he? Surely, you took that story with a grain of salt. I do not mean to disrespect your father, but true-stories have a strange way of turning into tales. The Indians still do not give much due credit to PAF fighters in the 1965 war, despite the amazing destruction they delivered. Saying that the planes were grounded when they were destroyed is a convenient way of escaping the humiliation of air-to-air, man-to-man defeat.

MuradK, on the other hand, is an Air Force veteran and is as reliable a source as any IAF veteran. His point was, you should brush up on your IAF history before you post next, and not rely on hear-say so much.

you dont believe anything until source is given to you . maybe i could give you . maybe i could give you the source that pakistanis in japan are calling themselves indian .

india did not have even 6 mig-21 at 65 . they became operational after 65 .

 

[PAFAce]

read this
Indian Air Force - Visiting the MiG-21 Bisons

india did not have even 6 mig-21 at 65 . they became operational after 65 .

Bharat Rakshak! Here is a more neutral, and accurate, source:

Source:
Wings That Stay On - The Role of Fighter Aircraft in War
USAF Colonel (Ret) Edward V. "Cougar" Coggins Jr.
Published by Turner Publishing Company, 2000
ISBN 1563115689, 9781563115684

Air Order of Battle

Before 1956 the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) used primarily British equipment, but in 1956, a US Military Defense Assistance Program (MDAP) was begun. On the eve of the Kashmir Conflict, the Pakistani order of Battle was:

- 100 F-86F Sabres
- 25 B-57 Canberras
- 12 F-104A & F-104B Starfighters
- 12 T-33A trainer/fighter/bombers (two sear F-80s)

Twenty-five percent of F-86s were fitted with AIM-9B sidewinders. Pakistani training was excellent, beginning in the T-6 and then progressing to the T-33.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) was larger than the PAF and had a myriad of equipment:

- 8 Mig-21 Fishbeds
- 118 Hawker Hunters
- 80 Mystere IV-As
- 50 Gnats
- 56 Ouragans
- 132 Vampires

The IAF also had a number of Soviet SA-2 SAMs installed primary facilities.

Further on in the book.

The long awaited fight between F-104 and Mig-21 did not occur in 1965.

The Colonel then goes on to tell the story of IAF's destruction. It is an interesting read. I read a very similar account in a book on the F-86 Sabre, but that was a long time ago.

maybe i could give you the source that pakistanis in japan are calling themselves indian

Well, not that it is relevant to our discussion, but I have an Indian Kashmiri friend who calls himself Pakistani. Also, I knew an Indian Muslim back in UAE who called himself Pakistani. I also know of many "fresh-off-the-boat" Indians who hate calling themselves Indian. But who cares about them? Ask me who I am, and you will always get the same answer. Proud Pakistani.

 

[zombie:-)]

guys please stop derailing the thread

 

[messenger]

Bharat Rakshak! Here is a more neutral, and accurate, source:

Source:
Wings That Stay On - The Role of Fighter Aircraft in War
USAF Colonel (Ret) Edward V. "Cougar" Coggins Jr.
Published by Turner Publishing Company, 2000
ISBN 1563115689, 9781563115684



Further on in the book.



The Colonel then goes on to tell the story of IAF's destruction. It is an interesting read. I read a very similar account in a book on the F-86 Sabre, but that was a long time ago.



Well, not that it is relevant to our discussion, but I have an Indian Kashmiri friend who calls himself Pakistani. Also, I knew an Indian Muslim back in UAE who called himself Pakistani. I also know of many "fresh-off-the-boat" Indians who hate calling themselves Indian. But who cares about them? Ask me who I am, and you will always get the same answer. Proud Pakistani.

u dont trust bharat rakshak i dont trust any usa report about that war coz usa was heavily biased against india at that time .

and dude by highlighting you yourself answered your question . you think 6 or even 8 mig-21 are enough to change the course of war . the reality is that mig-21's were used to a very minimum extent during 65 , very minimum .

and regarding 71 war , yeah your paf performed well , much better than army and navy . 95,000 POW's are no joke . learn how much you lost % wise during the 71 war in army , navy and airforce .
you say we were creamed by chinese in 62 , absalutely true . but from it we learnt something and admitted it . look at you even after almost 40 years you are still there waiting for history to change itself .

and dude change your friend circle all of your friends are mujahideen .

 

[messenger]

guys please stop derailing the thread

agreed . lets get back to it .

 

[Patriot]

Even if Sajjad Haider shot down planes on grounds so what?It was your Air Force Failure that it was not able to air bone their fighters before Pakistani Fighters bombed the base back to stone ages.Not even a single plane was shot down in that air raid.An Air Force 5 times smaller then IAF was able to do this damage and Indians are quite proud of destorying Pakistan Air Planes in East Pakistan and bragging about it on American Forums.Perhaps they have forgetten that only 1 Squardon was stationed there and yet they were able to shoot down some Indian Planes.Thanks to PAF Training we have Pilots like Muradk, MMALAM they saved Pakistan from Indian Air Force and caused maximum damage.

 

[messenger]

Even if Sajjad Haider shot down planes on grounds so what?It was your Air Force Failure that it was not able to air bone their fighters before Pakistani Fighters bombed the base back to stone ages.Not even a single plane was shot down in that air raid.

yes i was expecting a wise reply only from you .

we made some grave mistakes in 62 and 65 and pakistan and china took full benefit of them .