SU 30 MKI Vs RAFALE SPECS

[DrSomnath999]

When India will get Rafale , MKI won't be the best fighter of Asia. It would definitely be Rafale.

oh F yeah

 

[HZR2011]

For Pakistani's,Chineese,and Cheer leaders Bangladeshi's,even if India gets its hands on F-22 Raptor,then it will be a crap and useless and will be downgraded 3rd generation and its cheap junk copy will be Superior than the Original


Cuz of Just Hate and jealousy..can't blame them,so ignore em..

 

[DrSomnath999]

^^exactly what can one do after all it is pakistani defence forum

 

[GR!FF!N]

@DrSomnath999

can you kindly elaborate Rafale's spectra suit and radar cancellation technique..thanx in advance doc..

 

[ralphleo]

Self Deleted

You forget the J-10B which will most probably be the best air-superiority fighter in South Asia this decade.

What are you smoking? Doesn't matter..........i now know its high quality stuff! (No offense intended)

 

[danger007]

I agree with that statement.

Rafale was designed to do everything, but at the cost of being slightly less good at everything than if it was specifically designed for just one role.

J-10B has been optimised purely for air-superiority and will contain the latest Chinese advances in turbofan, radar and missile technologies. Remember, Pakistani engineers described the J-10A's avionics as being only a par with the F-16 Block 50, so you can imagine just how much better the J-10B's avionics will have progressed in the last decade.

I only got involved when someone was using the word "DOMINATE" as far as SU-30MKI and Rafale are concerned. J-10B will be the Chinese 4+ generation counter to these Indian planes.

Why don't you guys buy J-10B......some of BD guys discussing about SU-30 and Swed. Gripen should be inducted in BAF..... When it comes BAF Jf-17, or J-10 b is useless..... But if it comes between IAF vs ..... Even F-7BGI can takeon MKI......... Lolz double standard's....... So you are claiming copied version are superior to original version....

 

[UKBengali]

oh yes they have been developing avionics but it is no way comparable to french ,& that is the reason why PAF officials were
dying to have those avionics for their JF 17.

Well readers enjoy this cool video & u also see what amazing avionics RAFALE has
B]AMAZING VIDEO DEPICTING ALL THE SENSORS ON BOARD RAFALE[/B]

Again, you are not thinking about what makes a good air-superiority fighter.

It is not just sexy avionics.

Airframe design is very important.


With air-superiority fighters, BVR enegagements will pretty much rule. The F-22 is specifically designed to knock down other aircraft at BVR and will not have much advantage in the WVR arena.


Fact is that the J-10 is optimised for fighting in this arena while the Rafale has not.
This is not due to the fact that the French are no able to do it but because they needed
a fighter that could do everything. Inevitably the areas that are important for air superiority like
top-speed and service height ceiling had to be compromised.

If we look at these 2 important parameters for Rafale, J-10 and F-22:

Rafale: Top speed of Mach 1.8 and Service ceiling of 16,800 metres
J-10: Top speed of Mach 2.2 and Service ceiling of 18,000 metres
F-22 : Top speed of Mach 2.25 and Service ceiling of 19,800 metres

We can clearly see that the F-22 has the highest speed and the highest ceiling. The J-10 is next with the Rafale trailing.

If the J-10 and the Rafale detected each other at the same time, from say 100km away, the J-10will have an immense advantage over the Rafale as it could get higher and fly faster and could release it's BVR AAM with more energy(both potential and kinetic) which will increase it's chances
of a hit.

The Rafale may have slightly better avionics than the J-10B but the J-10b's higher service ceiling and speed will allow it to have the upper hand in any engagements.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

Again, you are not thinking about what makes a good air-superiority fighter.

It is not just sexy avionics.

Airframe design is very important.


With air-superiority fighters, BVR enegagements will pretty much rule. The F-22 is specifically designed to knock down other aircraft at BVR and will not have much advantage in the WVR arena.


Fact is that the J-10 is optimised for fighting in this arena while the Rafale has not.
This is not due to the fact that the French are no able to do it but because they needed
a fighter that could do everything. Inevitably the areas that are important for air superiority like
top-speed and service height ceiling had to be compromised.

If we look at these 2 important parameters for Rafale, J-10 and F-22:

Rafale: Top speed of Mach 1.8 and Service ceiling of 16,800 metres
J-10: Top speed of Mach 2.2 and Service ceiling of 18,000 metres
F-22 : Top speed of Mach 2.25 and Service ceiling of 19,800 metres

We can clearly see that the F-22 has the highest speed and the highest ceiling. The J-10 is next with the Rafale trailing.

If the J-10 and the Rafale detected each other at the same time, from say 100km away, the J-10will have an immense advantage over the Rafale as it could get higher and fly faster and could release it's BVR AAM with more energy(both potential and kinetic) which will increase it's chances
of a hit.

The Rafale may have slightly better avionics than the J-10B but the J-10b's higher service ceiling and speed will allow it to have the upper hand in any engagements.

that's it ? higher ceiling and more speed ? that is what makes it air-superiority.??
wow !! U sure seem to be veteran in aeronautical engg..

 

[Devianz]

Again, you are not thinking about what makes a good air-superiority fighter.

It is not just sexy avionics.

Airframe design is very important.


With air-superiority fighters, BVR enegagements will pretty much rule. The F-22 is specifically designed to knock down other aircraft at BVR and will not have much advantage in the WVR arena.


Fact is that the J-10 is optimised for fighting in this arena while the Rafale has not.
This is not due to the fact that the French are no able to do it but because they needed
a fighter that could do everything. Inevitably the areas that are important for air superiority like
top-speed and service height ceiling had to be compromised.

If we look at these 2 important parameters for Rafale, J-10 and F-22:

Rafale: Top speed of Mach 1.8 and Service ceiling of 16,800 metres
J-10: Top speed of Mach 2.2 and Service ceiling of 18,000 metres
F-22 : Top speed of Mach 2.25 and Service ceiling of 19,800 metres

We can clearly see that the F-22 has the highest speed and the highest ceiling. The J-10 is next with the Rafale trailing.

If the J-10 and the Rafale detected each other at the same time, from say 100km away, the J-10will have an immense advantage over the Rafale as it could get higher and fly faster and could release it's BVR AAM with more energy(both potential and kinetic) which will increase it's chances
of a hit.

The Rafale may have slightly better avionics than the J-10B but the J-10b's higher service ceiling and speed will allow it to have the upper hand in any engagements.

Your arguements, if you can call it so are full of crap.

1) Any idiot with basic or little knowledge in aerospace would understand by just looking at the specs that F-22 is by far the best not just in BVR but also in WVR. Two big powerful engines, low wing loading and 2D TVC. Sure they made it to work in BVR but didn't forget the WVR part either.

2) You talk about airframe design, let's see Looking at the specs again.... We see that Rafael is indeed better suited to air superiority roles than J-10B. It's lighter, has lower wing loading, can super cruise with stores, has passive weapons cueing, more load carrying capacity, has highter thrust both in dry and wet by a big margin. The impressive part is a TWR of 1.10 with 100% fuel, 2 EM AtoA and 2 IR AtoA.

3) About top speed of J-10B, it probably won't be crossing mach 2.0. DSI is cannot handle that kinds of speeds, for that you would need a movable inlet design. And flying faster at BVR means sh!t for a non supercruise fighter, it can't maintain that speed for more than couple of minutes. Besides the Rafale is always faster on dry thrust. And add the meteore factor beyond 2015 and BVR conflict against Rafale is a lost cause.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Again, you are not thinking about what makes a good air-superiority fighter.

It is not just sexy avionics.

Airframe design is very important.

well as rafale's airframe is designed as omnirole fighter that makes a jack sense that it cant be good air superiority fighter as it is not designed as purely an airsuperiority fighter ,
Meanwhile do u know Rafale is designed to withstand more than 11G & french pilots have said to achieve 11 g manuveurs which clearly states it is highly manuverable & optimized for aerial combat

With air-superiority fighters, BVR enegagements will pretty much rule. The F-22 is specifically designed to knock down other aircraft at BVR and will not have much advantage in the WVR arena.

hey man!!
F 22 is a stealth fighter with cutting edge avionics & ECM with ultralong range BVRAAMS .As it is a stealth jet it is specifically designed for BVR warfare .
Meanwhile rafale is a semistealth fighter but far stealthy than J1o & chinese flanker copy.
Do u know Any way i would to like to enlighten u that Rafale thanks to it's 5th GEN spectra EW (ELINT /SIGNIT)suite has unique ability of passive detection of all aerial targets when they are in active mode (radar turn on) from more than 100 miles away & not only that it can also cue it's air to air missiles without turning on it's own aesa radar for stealth reason .this capabilty other than rafale only F22 raptor ALR 94 system has. ALso f35 may have it no confirmation yet.

Meanwhile J10b has to rely on it's IRST for passive detection but it can only detect IR signature & that is not effective at extreme long range ,but SPECTRA detects EM detection & it can cue Radar guided missiles to it's targets at long ranges.

Fact is that the J-10 is optimised for fighting in this arena while the Rafale has not.

This is not due to the fact that the French are no able to do it but because they needed
a fighter that could do everything. Inevitably the areas that are important for air superiority like
top-speed and service height ceiling had to be compromised.

If we look at these 2 important parameters for Rafale, J-10 and F-22:

Rafale: Top speed of Mach 1.8 and Service ceiling of 16,800 metres
J-10: Top speed of Mach 2.2 and Service ceiling of 18,000 metres
F-22 : Top speed of Mach 2.25 and Service ceiling of 19,800 metres

We can clearly see that the F-22 has the highest speed and the highest ceiling. The J-10 is next with the Rafale trailing.

OMG!! facepalm

son telll u what u r theoritically outdated about aerial warfare This theory is applicable during world war I & II not in todays warfare.

If speed & service ceiling is taken the criteria for air supremacy then Even mirage 2000 with speed of Mach 2.2 (2,530+ km/h, 1,500+ mph) at high altitude(17,060 m (59,000 ft)) also has same speed that of j10b at high altitude does that make it superior to j10b lolzz.

Dude today's BVR warfare age relies on stealth .advanced avionics & ECM & manuveurability & high quality BVRAAM to beat ur opponents.Do U know EA -18 growler thanks to it's advanced electronic warfare suite has managed to defeat F22 in BVR warfare .Todays age Fighter has to rely more than speed & ceiling height to prevail in aerial warfare .
& RAFALE has all that except Stealth like F22 raptor but it is far stealthy than J10b thanks to it's spectra advanced electronic
jamming system

If the J-10 and the Rafale detected each other at the same time, from say 100km away, the J-10will have an immense advantage over the Rafale as it could get higher and fly faster and could release it's BVR AAM with more energy(both potential and kinetic) which will increase it's chances
of a hit.

LOLLZ
another B.S missile speed doesnt increase the chance of kill probabilty only ,the most important criteria is missile seeker & that is most important & but the problem is the plane which has better ECM & manuverabilty can survive those missiles .
Dude Rafale has SPECTRA electronic warfare suite which is not an ordinary electronic countermeasure suite which it looks to u.
Infact it
SPECTRA A DIGITAL REVOLUTION:

WHY spectra is so superior to other ECM suite of J10?

• High angular accuracy compliant with DIRCM needs Not j10b
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagal.../ddm_ng_ds.pdf
• Passive detection and FIRING of GPS weapons with SPECTRA? NOT j10b

• < 1* angular precision industrial standard class? NOT j10b
• Passive detection and FIRING of AAM with SPECTRA? not j10b



meanwhile Rafale has 2 amazing missile Metoer ramjet BVRAAM & Mica IR missiles which can easily take down any chinese pirated jets

The Rafale may have slightly better avionics than the J-10B but the J-10b's higher service ceiling and speed will allow it to have the upper hand in any engagements.

 

[arp2041]

^^^^ brand ambassadors of J-10B & Rafale are fighting it out......

 

[kaykay]

well as rafale's airframe is designed as omnirole fighter that makes a jack sense that it cant be good air superiority fighter as it is not designed as purely an airsuperiority fighter ,
Meanwhile do u know Rafale is designed to withstand more than 11G & french pilots have said to achieve 11 g manuveurs which clearly states it is highly manuverable & optimized for aerial combat


hey man!!
F 22 is a stealth fighter with cutting edge avionics & ECM with ultralong range BVRAAMS .As it is a stealth jet it is specifically designed for BVR warfare .
Meanwhile rafale is a semistealth fighter but far stealthy than J1o & chinese flanker copy.
Do u know Any way i would to like to enlighten u that Rafale thanks to it's 5th GEN spectra EW (ELINT /SIGNIT)suite has unique ability of passive detection of all aerial targets when they are in active mode (radar turn on) from more than 100 miles away & not only that it can also cue it's air to air missiles without turning on it's own aesa radar for stealth reason .this capabilty other than rafale only F22 raptor ALR 94 system has. ALso f35 may have it no confirmation yet.

Meanwhile J10b has to rely on it's IRST for passive detection but it can only detect IR signature & that is not effective at extreme long range ,but SPECTRA detects EM detection & it can cue Radar guided missiles to it's targets at long ranges.





OMG!! facepalm

son telll u what u r theoritically outdated about aerial warfare This theory is applicable during world war I & II not in todays warfare.

If speed & service ceiling is taken the criteria for air supremacy then Even mirage 2000 with speed of Mach 2.2 (2,530+ km/h, 1,500+ mph) at high altitude(17,060 m (59,000 ft)) also has same speed that of j10b at high altitude does that make it superior to j10b lolzz.

Dude today's BVR warfare age relies on stealth .advanced avionics & ECM & manuveurability & high quality BVRAAM to beat ur opponents.Do U know EA -18 growler thanks to it's advanced electronic warfare suite has managed to defeat F22 in BVR warfare .Todays age Fighter has to rely more than speed & ceiling height to prevail in aerial warfare .
& RAFALE has all that except Stealth like F22 raptor but it is far stealthy than J10b thanks to it's spectra advanced electronic
jamming system



LOLLZ
another B.S missile speed doesnt increase the chance of kill probabilty only ,the most important criteria is missile seeker & that is most important & but the problem is the plane which has better ECM & manuverabilty can survive those missiles .
Dude Rafale has SPECTRA electronic warfare suite which is not an ordinary electronic countermeasure suite which it looks to u.
Infact it
SPECTRA A DIGITAL REVOLUTION:

WHY spectra is so superior to other ECM suite of J10?

&#8226; High angular accuracy compliant with DIRCM needs Not j10b
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagal.../ddm_ng_ds.pdf
&#8226; Passive detection and FIRING of GPS weapons with SPECTRA? NOT j10b

&#8226; < 1* angular precision industrial standard class? NOT j10b
&#8226; Passive detection and FIRING of AAM with SPECTRA? not j10b



meanwhile Rafale has 2 amazing missile Metoer ramjet BVRAAM & Mica IR missiles which can easily take down any chinese pirated jets



MY A$$$
dude J10b didnt stand a chance until it is not escorted by J20 .Yes it would be superior only in ur wet dreams or in chinese/pakistani forums not in reality

Plz stop wasting ur & my time

aare dactar saheb kahe energy waste kar rahe hai bhai?????....anyway nice info....

 

[DrSomnath999]

^^^^ brand ambassadors of J-10B & Rafale are fighting it out......

it is so annoying that an idiot which has no technical knowledge on aviation is spreading B.S after reading crap from some chinese forum & copy ,pasting that garbage here .
It is more irritating to waste ur time to debunk those fools

3) About top speed of J-10B, it probably won't be crossing mach 2.0. DSI is cannot handle that kinds of speeds, for that you would need a movable inlet design.

EXACTLY
DSI cant withstand such high speeds that is the reason F 35 has top speed of mach 1.6 ,now tell does that make F35 inferior to J10b

 

[arp2041]

EXACTLY
DSI cant withstand such high speeds that is the reason F 35 has top speed of mach 1.6 ,now tell does that make F35 inferior to J10b

no it has been proven again & again (in the dreams of some PDF members) that the J10B's are the best fighter planes not in this region but in the whole world, F-22 & F-35 doesn't stand a chance, they will curse that day when they have to take on J10's, It can take on aliens of mars, no alien stand a chance against it's air superiority, do you know why aliens are not attacking earth?? because they are afraid of J10B's, i can go on & on & on but than we have the responsibility to save this world so will not comment further, & to the fans of Rafales, let them be in there delusions, but they will run for water when the aliens attack earth.

long live J10B's

 

[DrSomnath999]

@DrSomnath999

can you kindly elaborate Rafale's spectra suit and radar cancellation technique..thanx in advance doc..

well i have explained some part about Spectra in my above post

But about radar cancellation technique that is very limited info available in NET,Infact i am going to post some info from ID F from a french member Mr DARE who has posted that info

This doc gives you an idea:

On the left, the RWR using Amplitude Comparison mode, on the right Phase Interferometers.

Virtually EVERY single RWR uses Amplitude Comparison even so some are equiped with aerials which in theory could be used in the Interferometer modes, weither SPECTRA is designed from stock to be an Interferometer with the proper systems to back it up, it is used in the WRW function but is technically NOT a RWR, its aerial also are AESA.

Levels of processing power needed for both modes are very different, SPECTRA can do ELINT/SINGIT from stock, which is what a classic RWR cannot do, it also boost the highest level of angular accuracy the industry can manage to field.

This means twice the detection range (200 km) and an angular precision below 1*.

If your aerials and systems doesn't respond to these standards, you cannot cue and fire AAMs or A2G ordonances to targets with your passive EM systems only.

Yet another SPECTRA system developed with this capability in mind, MBDA DDM-NG:

It is designed from stock with High angular accuracy compliant with DIRCM needs..
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/ddm_ng_ds.pdf
All passive systems in Rafale have been conceived from stock with the angular accuracy needed for BVR targeting, DIRCM developed today are meant to target incoming AAMs seekers, so as to disable them using laser beams, Thales developd such a system today for the A400 Defense suite.
http://www.thalesgroup.com/uploadedImages/Portfolio/Aerospace/Visuel Flash.jpg?n=1003
LWR, MIRAS, ELIX-IR, DIRCM FLASH, CMDS VICON 78, Optronic self-protection/Countermeasures - Thales
The Laser system is still Transport-size, but i wouldn't sware that we wont see a Fighter-sized version in the future...

The technology for the IIR sensors are developed by a French company, SOFRADIR, established in 1986 by Thales, Sagem and CEA-LETI, Commissariat à l'énergie atomique et aux énergies alternatives.

Today they are working closely together in DGA R&D programmes for future systems, such as OSF NG, Damocles etc...

DDM NG, altought simpler than F-35 EO DAS is way more advanced technologically (2/3 technology cycles) than EO DAS original Block1 IR Video system, note that the US are not only procuring French developed technologies in the IR field, they also work with SOFRADIR to develop their next generation of IR sensors and are launching an upgrade programe for EO DAS.
Sofradir - Infrared / cooled technologies, IR detector for military, space - Commercial app

COURTESY: MR dare
Thank u for info mate