SU-30 fighter pilots focusing on beyond visual range combat

[danger007]

Its our concern dear, after all India is a foe of Pakistan and a big one.

Omg basel.. kindly keep your thinking on earth buddy... you are assuming lot...

 

[aakash_2410]

I feel bad for indian fanboys.

PAF has superiority in range and destruction with Ra'ad nuclear capable cruise missile. And then PAF has superiority in speed with CM-400AKG...which reaches MACH 4 to MACH 5 in terminal stages.

Poor, junkard airforce of india. Always trying to catch up to the superior, more professional force in the region.

No wonder PAF humiliated iaf again, and again, and again in previous confrontations.

The amount of factual distortion in this post are unreal!

First of all Ra'ad is a subsonic missile. Not some cutting edge technology like you make it out to be. Brahmos is the world's only operational supersonic cruise missile.

Let's talk about CM-400AKG/YJ-12 shall we? Firstly it's a Chinese missile, 'under development' and has top speed of 2.5 Mach not 4-5. Still slower than Brahmos and is not even currently operational and is not a Pakistani missile.

Junk force? Fun fact for you. Indian BSF, Coast guard and paramilitry forces (Indian equivalent of your rangers) has higher defence budget than your entire military not even talking about IA, IAF or IN.

 

[Last Samuri]

Aakash.

You really will up set the Pakistanis with posts like below

Junk force? Fun fact for you. Indian BSF, Coast guard and paramilitry forces (Indian equivalent of your rangers) has higher defence budget than your entire military not even talking about IA, IAF or IN.

I think its below the belt.

IF someone from Pakistani wants to boast about a fictious scenario like PAF professionalism and greater reach let them

JUST SMILE

AND SHOW THEM the indian GDP ,,MILITARY BUDGET AND 200 SU30MKI sitting on the TARMAC

AND BIG WINK AND SMILE

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Lack of training has everything to do with a fighter plane going down to MANPADs. ANZA 1 which shot your Mig is simply a copy of Chinese HN-5 MANPAD which itself is a copy of the Strela missile, and to lose to an old MANPAD after 25 years of known countermeasaures is really pathetic performance.


You haven't interacted with me before, so don't come to me with irrelevant articles to support your point and not expect to be scrutinized. Your own report mentions:

" The role of airpower, however, was tinged with controversy from the very beginning. Both during and immediately after the conflict, it was not clear whether the Indian Air Force (IAF) leadership of the time advocated the commitment of Indian airpower and under what conditions, how the IAF actually performed at the operational level and with what effects, and whether the employment of airpower was satisfactorily coordinated with the Indian Army at either the strategic or the tactical levels of war."
At another point it mentions that another report two years before it had said IAF had a "poor performance" in Kargil War. Reference 94.
So don't give me the authors credentials, i know how the literary world works and how to prove a point and you are not fooling me.

Also a "Doctorate" in Political science doesn't give him an expertise on Aerial Warfare. To be lenient, i'll give you that he might be very well versed in Political science but he knows bupkis on aerial warfare still.

What IAF bombed can never be proven, but what can be proven is that your Mig was blown out of the sky, and your Embassy in Pakistan refused to take charge of him when he was handed to them out of embarrassment and pure humiliation.

Then by your standards israeli air force is poor quality because they got more modern jets shot down by strelas ,and not even in high altitude conditions.

Read the whole article boy,see the pictures of muntho dhalo and the effects of the bombing.Just because you say something is 'irrelevant' doesn't make it so.The true embarassment in kargil was PAF which never mustered the courage to even enter the battle.So don't throw stones living in glass houses.Don't mock IAF with baseless statements and i won't retaliate either.You already displayed how limited your knowledge base is when u said IAF just catching up in BVR role.Its been PAF thats doing the catchup in this particular area.

 

[SipahSalar]

Then by your standards israeli air force is poor quality because they got more modern jets shot down by strelas ,and not even in high altitude conditions.

Oh, we are down to name calling now? Novice then and now boy? lol whatever floats your boat.

For the umpteenth time, the Israeli Air Force lost its jets to Strela's in 1973, Your Mig got blown to smithereens in 1999. Let me help you do the math, 99 - 73 = 26 years gap. If your air force could not learn anything quarter of a century, then you should strip your air force and sell your planes as junk at a per kilo rate.

Secondly, most of the Israeli Air Force planes hit by Strelas were A-4 Skyhawks, yours was a Mig-21. I think there is a massive difference between an A-4 and a Mig-21, but you will probably disagree to save yourself the embarrassment.

Thirdly, not all of their planes hit by ground fire were from Strelas. You are assuming all hits were from MANPADs, which is contrary to the facts.

Lastly, Israeli Air Force was fighting several armies and jet fighters. They would fly low to avoid detection which would expose them to MANPADs. Which resulted in most of the losses which you are trying to use as an excuse for poor IAF performance. Whereas IAF fought irregulars with no fear of coming across enemy jets, yet got blown out of the sky with a MANPAD. A shame really.

Oh, you can "retaliate" all you want. A strong word for an internet argument. Just don't make yourself look like a fool while you do so. Just my 5 cents.

 

[Project 4202]

beyond visual range combat IS THE FUTURE

 

[Basel]

Most of our airbases and deep inside India. How many of your airbases are outside Brahmos and PGM range of IAF?

Don't worry PAF have all your FOB covered and all bases upto 350kms are also in range of PAF's weapons reach. PA will take care of bases beyond 350kms with their long range assets.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Oh, we are down to name calling now? Novice then and now boy? lol whatever floats your boat.

For the umpteenth time, the Israeli Air Force lost its jets to Strela's in 1973, Your Mig got blown to smithereens in 1999. Let me help you do the math, 99 - 73 = 26 years gap. If your air force could not learn anything quarter of a century, then you should strip your air force and sell your planes as junk at a per kilo rate.

Secondly, most of the Israeli Air Force planes hit by Strelas were A-4 Skyhawks, yours was a Mig-21. I think there is a massive difference between an A-4 and a Mig-21, but you will probably disagree to save yourself the embarrassment.

Thirdly, not all of their planes hit by ground fire were from Strelas. You are assuming all hits were from MANPADs, which is contrary to the facts.

Lastly, Israeli Air Force was fighting several armies and jet fighters. They would fly low to avoid detection which would expose them to MANPADs. Which resulted in most of the losses which you are trying to use as an excuse for poor IAF performance. Whereas IAF fought irregulars with no fear of coming across enemy jets, yet got blown out of the sky with a MANPAD. A shame really.

Oh, you can "retaliate" all you want. A strong word for an internet argument. Just don't make yourself look like a fool while you do so. Just my 5 cents.

Not just skyhawks,but also mirage-3s.And at high altitude without OBOG tech or EW equipment.Mig-21 is same gen aircraft as mirage 3.You conveniently ignore the extreme problems of flying at high altitudes.My 5 cents is seeing mighty PAF hide in its bases against 'poor' IAF tells you the story.You were the original fool for saying IAF just catching up BVR combat,which is blatantly false.So yes you did post like a novice.

 

[Kinetic]

Don't worry PAF have all your FOB covered and all bases upto 350kms are also in range of PAF's weapons reach. PA will take care of bases beyond 350kms with their long range assets.

Which long range asset do you have to take beyond 350 km? Also PAF is much smaller than IAF and India has established one of the most densely SAM network with Akash and MRSAM etc. With atleast 3000+ missiles in place. Take care of them first.

 

[sathya]

It's more than 10 years since induction, why are we focussing just now ?

 

[Basel]

Which long range asset do you have to take beyond 350 km? Also PAF is much smaller than IAF and India has established one of the most densely SAM network with Akash and MRSAM etc. With atleast 3000+ missiles in place. Take care of them first.

PAF can hit static targets up to 350kms with ease and for SAMS they have plenty standoff range anti radiation missiles, don't worry YJ-12 ARM with 400 kms range will also come to PAF soon.

Beyond 350kms Babar CMs will be used which can hit targets up to 900kms approximately.

 

[Omega007]

lol, indians are getting excited for something that PAF already has in works for years now.

Our Ra'ad nuclear cruise missile can strike target within 350km deep inside india

Good,and our K15s can take out anything anywhere in Pakistan from 1600 km away,without having to send a fighter !!With twice the explosive punch if I may add further.

 

[Akasa]

The amount of factual distortion in this post are unreal!

First of all Ra'ad is a subsonic missile. Not some cutting edge technology like you make it out to be. Brahmos is the world's only operational supersonic cruise missile.

Let's talk about CM-400AKG/YJ-12 shall we? Firstly it's a Chinese missile, 'under development' and has top speed of 2.5 Mach not 4-5. Still slower than Brahmos and is not even currently operational and is not a Pakistani missile.

Junk force? Fun fact for you. Indian BSF, Coast guard and paramilitry forces (Indian equivalent of your rangers) has higher defence budget than your entire military not even talking about IA, IAF or IN.

There's a slight mixup here.

The YJ-12 missile is unrelated to the Mach-5-capable air-to-surface missile that Pakistan did buy (which is called the CM-400AKG). The former is a ramjet-powered heavy anti-ship cruise missile designed to attack large targets from up to 400 km away and at a speed of Mach 3.5. The latter is an air-to-surface missile that uses a solid fueled booster. Both missiles are in service but should not be confused with each other.

 

[Omega007]

@gambit
Thx, because with AESA radar, CFTs and all new goodies planed for it will make it so potent that in air defence role it will be on par with every jet IAF can through at PAF leaving 5th gen.

Once we start taking out your fighters even before they have taken off,and that too from more than 1500 km away with our hyper sonic K15 missiles,all those "AESA radar, CFTs and all new goodies" won't count for shiit!!

Don't worry PAF have all your FOB covered and all bases upto 350kms are also in range of PAF's weapons reach.

Do you think in a future war,IAF gonna fight on your terms??You think the ones in the IAF will be stupid enough to deploy their assets on FOBs even before taking out PAF at first??Kid,if it is needed,we can destroy every god damn runways and airstrips within minutes of commencement of hostilities with our long range hyper-sonic missiles,from beyond the reach of anything you guys have right now or will get in foreseeable future.

PA will take care of bases beyond 350kms with their long range assets.

With what??Shaheens??Stop fooling yourself kid,Pakistan Army will never use ballistic missiles for such roles,cause they know very well that the moment they take such a decision,they will have sealed the very fate of your nation cause firing of ballistic missiles,no matter armed with whatever type of warheads,will ensure punitive nuclear strikes from India!!

 

[Basel]

Once we start taking out your fighters even before they have taken off,and that too from more than 1500 km away with our hyper sonic K15 missiles,all those "AESA radar, CFTs and all new goodies" won't count for shiit!!


Do you think in a future war,IAF gonna fight on your terms??You think the ones in the IAF will be stupid enough to deploy their assets on FOBs even before taking out PAF at first??Kid,if it is needed,we can destroy every god damn runways and airstrips within minutes of commencement of hostilities with our long range hyper-sonic missiles,from beyond the reach of anything you guys have right now or will get in foreseeable future.

With what??Shaheens??Stop fooling yourself kid,Pakistan Army will never use ballistic missiles for such roles,cause they know very well that the moment they take such a decision,they will have sealed the very fate of your nation cause firing of ballistic missiles,no matter armed with whatever type of warheads,will ensure punitive nuclear strikes from India!!

Too much chest thumping but little knowledge of how war were / would be fought between Pakistan and India.

K-15 is not PGM, its a SLBM, PA also have capability to use BMs as you mentioned.

To much lack of knowledge you enjoy about Pakistan and you also don't read properly too.

I never said that beyond 350kms PA will use BMs for precision strike at standoff ranges, I said Baber CMs will be used in this role and Pakistan have good numbers available.