Su 30 and Su 35 can win hands down with F-35 in WVR and Dogfight

[Anony]

Watch the video.

 

[sms]

Care to explain..how will SU30/ 35 manage to get in to WVR to F35?

The warrior era is over for centuries. Sir we are living in 21st century and killing at distance is the way of winning wars.

 

[GR!FF!N]

LOL..many people thinks that F-35 is an inferior jet.but we'll see what people will say after seeing their performance.even if F-35 doesn't meet the expectation,it is still a formidable aircraft.

 

[Black Widow]

I can kill Hafeez Saeed "if Hafeez comes near me unarmed and I will be equipped with AK47" ..


Please stop posting such nonsene thread, why on earth F35 will come near Su27 family????

 

[Mav3rick]

Besides, the whole point of stealth is to make the Aircraft seemingly invisible to Radars, how would the SU lock on to F-35 if its radar cannot even 'see' the F-35???

 

[Koovie]

Care to explain..how will SU30/ 35 manage to get in to WVR to F35?

The warrior era is over for centuries. Sir we are living in 21st century and killing at distance is the way of winning wars.

Dogfighting is still part of every pilots training!

 

[Anony]

Besides, the whole point of stealth is to make the Aircraft seemingly invisible to Radars, how would the SU lock on to F-35 if its radar cannot even 'see' the F-35???

The member posting seems to be living in their own design battlefield situation. It's never 1 to 1 combat in real world scnario, nor only su 27 family group vs f-35 group. In real war scenario it's a combination of more than one fighters, also AWACS, groud based radar with low frequency band, UHF, VHF will come into picture, which can easily track F-35 fighters.

Once pilot seating in Su 30 or Su 35 comes to know that 100km ahead we have F-35 coming though he can't see it in his own radar he can get himself ready with maximum power of his IRST. And also, Su 30 has very good jammer in place to jam the BVR missiles and are father of maneuverability to evade BVR missiles. Also while firing this BVR missile, F-35 will give away it's position.

Adding to it, it will never be Su 30 in the sky alone, but FGFA will also be along with it. And note that, stealth doesn't mean that Su 30 can't track F-35 even when it comes within 40km-50km radius.Come out of this misconception.

I can kill Hafeez Saeed "if Hafeez comes near me unarmed and I will be equipped with AK47" ..


Please stop posting such nonsene thread, why on earth F35 will come near Su27 family????

Look at the real world scenario.

Care to explain..how will SU30/ 35 manage to get in to WVR to F35?

The warrior era is over for centuries. Sir we are living in 21st century and killing at distance is the way of winning wars.

Already explained.

 

[Anony]

LOL..many people thinks that F-35 is an inferior jet.but we'll see what people will say after seeing their performance.even if F-35 doesn't meet the expectation,it is still a formidable aircraft.

You had laughed enough. Now come back in your civic sense, that these are not my words but of western media and backed by what happened at the exercise.

 

[mehboobkz]

Dogfighting is still part of every pilots training!

Yes.
But Shock n Awe type has rendered the dogfight irrelevant.

 

[Anony]

Besides, the whole point of stealth is to make the Aircraft seemingly invisible to Radars, how would the SU lock on to F-35 if its radar cannot even 'see' the F-35???

The same way they lock onto F-35 in the exercise. If you had not watched video, watch it and not only watch listen to what has been proclaimed.

 

[Mav3rick]

The member posting seems to be living in their own design battlefield situation. It's never 1 to 1 combat in real world scnario, nor only su 27 family group vs f-35 group. In real war scenario it's a combination of more than one fighters, also AWACS, groud based radar with low frequency band, UHF, VHF will come into picture, which can easily track F-35 fighters.

Once pilot seating in Su 30 or Su 35 comes to know that 100km ahead we have F-35 coming though he can't see it in his own radar he can get himself ready with maximum power of his IRST. And also, Su 30 has very good jammer in place to jam the BVR missiles and are father of maneuverability to evade BVR missiles. Also while firing this BVR missile, F-35 will give away it's position.

Adding to it, it will never be Su 30 in the sky alone, but FGFA will also be along with it. And note that, stealth doesn't mean that Su 30 can't track F-35 even when it comes within 40km-50km radius.Come out of this misconception.

So now you want to eliminite the possibility of a 1:1 and want to speak on real world scenarios, in which the F-35 has been flying for 5-7 years where as PAKFA/FGFA has only very recently gone for flight testing . Anyway, to start off, you need to have a look at Air Power Australia's & RAND corporation assumptions and expert opinions on the video you have posted. On the contrary, USAF conducted simulations which resulted in proving that the F-35's air-to-air performance against SU family was 400% more effective!!

In other simulations and worst case scenarios of 4 JSF's against 8 SU-35's, the ratio was 6:1 in favour of the JSF!!! And those simulations were conducted by those who know the capabilities of JSF!

I had read an article about the pilots flying F-15's and F-16's in training exercises against the F-22......one of the pilots stated that he could visually identify the F-22 and yet his radar could not find it hence no missile lock, that's what stealth does!!

The US has also assured Israelis that the Saudi F-15SE would be no match for the JSF's that they will get! That about sums it all up as Israelis are not stupid and we know that F-15SE is more then a match for any Sukhoi!

The same way they lock onto F-35 in the exercise. If you had not watched video, watch it and not only watch listen to what has been proclaimed.

You are speaking about simulated exercise conducted by those who are just as informed on the JSF as us, right?? Should we rather not speak about simulations conducted by those who actually know the JSF and know what they are talking about?

 

[Anony]

So now you want to eliminite the possibility of a 1:1 and want to speak on real world scenarios, in which the F-35 has been flying for 5-7 years where as PAKFA/FGFA has only very recently gone for flight testing . Anyway, to start off, you need to have a look at Air Power Australia's & RAND corporation assumptions and expert opinions on the video you have posted. On the contrary, USAF conducted simulations which resulted in proving that the F-35's air-to-air performance against SU family was 400% more effective!!

In other simulations and worst case scenarios of 4 JSF's against 8 SU-35's, the ratio was 6:1 in favour of the JSF!!! And those simulations were conducted by those who know the capabilities of JSF!

I had read an article about the pilots flying F-15's and F-16's in training exercises against the F-22......one of the pilots stated that he could visually identify the F-22 and yet his radar could not find it hence no missile lock, that's what stealth does!!

The US has also assured Israelis that the Saudi F-15SE would be no match for the JSF's that they will get! That about sums it all up as Israelis are not stupid and we know that F-15SE is more then a match for any Sukhoi!



You are speaking about simulated exercise conducted by those who are just as informed on the JSF as us, right?? Should we rather not speak about simulations conducted by those who actually know the JSF and know what they are talking about?

1. Will you please help me by putting the source from where you had draw the above conclusion of 6:1 in JSF favour in dogfight.

2. Don't bring F-22 in the picture. F-22 is 20 times more stealthy than F-35 from the front and more than 100 times from the sideways. Read about complete design of F-35.

3. For your last paragraph, I would really want to know, who the hell know about F-35 that you have mentioned there.

4. What do you exactly mean by F-15SE is more than a match for Sukhoi and How?

5. Source for America told Israelis and all about those fantasies.

6. Source about USAF which states that JSF is 400% effective against Su family.

 

[gambit]

The member posting seems to be living in their own design battlefield situation.

Sounds like you.

...low frequency band, UHF, VHF will come into picture, which can easily track F-35 fighters.

No, long wavelengths have at best marginal better effects than the shorter wavelengths. In order to have tracking ability you falsely believe, you must use meters length freqs, which is HF. But if you use UHF and VHF, the best you can get is general direction, far less for other vital target resolutions like...

- Altitude
- Speed
- Aspect angle

Once pilot seating in Su 30 or Su 35 comes to know that 100km ahead we have F-35 coming though he can't see it in his own radar he can get himself ready with maximum power of his IRST.

Infrared do not give range information, only general direction, and at the distance you are talking about, the best IR source would be the engines, of which you cannot assume that will be the favorable position every time.

And also, Su 30 has very good jammer in place to jam the BVR missiles and are father of maneuverability to evade BVR missiles.

Complete nonsense. Missiles can maneuvers in excess of 40g. And what does 'very good jammer' mean?

Also while firing this BVR missile, F-35 will give away it's position.

How?

Adding to it, it will never be Su 30 in the sky alone, but FGFA will also be along with it. And note that, stealth doesn't mean that Su 30 can't track F-35 even when it comes within 40km-50km radius.Come out of this misconception.

That is well within AMRAAM kill radius. In other words, the Su 30 will be dead before he even knows where the missile came from. YOU come out of your misconception.

1. Will you please help me by putting the source from where you had draw the above conclusion of 6:1 in JSF favour in dogfight.

2. Don't bring F-22 in the picture. F-22 is 20 times more stealthy than F-35 from the front and more than 100 times from the sideways. Read about complete design of F-35.

No one here knows the true RCS values of either aircraft, so where did you got more information? If you demand sources from others, you should have no problems providing yours for that claim.

3. For your last paragraph, I would really want to know, who the hell know about F-35 that you have mentioned there.

And yet you have no problems making claims about the F-35's RCS value?

 

[Anony]

Sounds like you.


No, long wavelengths have at best marginal better effects than the shorter wavelengths. In order to have tracking ability you falsely believe, you must use meters length freqs, which is HF. But if you use UHF and VHF, the best you can get is general direction, far less for other vital target resolutions like...

- Altitude
- Speed
- Aspect angle


Infrared do not give range information, only general direction, and at the distance you are talking about, the best IR source would be the engines, of which you cannot assume that will be the favorable position every time.


Complete nonsense. Missiles can maneuvers in excess of 40g. And what does 'very good jammer' mean?


How?


That is well within AMRAAM kill radius. In other words, the Su 30 will be dead before he even knows where the missile came from. YOU come out of your misconception.


No one here knows the true RCS values of either aircraft, so where did you got more information? If you demand sources from others, you should have no problems providing yours for that claim.


And yet you have no problems making claims about the F-35's RCS value?

The title of discussion is WVR and Dogfighting capabilities of F-35 and Su 27 family. Not even a single sentence has thrown any light on that. And you blindly assumed that F-35 will kill all the Su 27 and its derivatives in BVR mode. I am asking you to come out of this misconception.

And not a single type of missile has ever built, that can achieve 100% even 85% in BVR mode.It's actually far less than that.
I really don't know what defence doctrine USA follows, but here in Asia WVR combat and Dogfighting are two very essential parameters to evaluate an aircraft and are given more importance than BVR kill parameters.

 

[Anony]

Sounds like you.


No, long wavelengths have at best marginal better effects than the shorter wavelengths. In order to have tracking ability you falsely believe, you must use meters length freqs, which is HF. But if you use UHF and VHF, the best you can get is general direction, far less for other vital target resolutions like...

- Altitude
- Speed
- Aspect angle


Infrared do not give range information, only general direction, and at the distance you are talking about, the best IR source would be the engines, of which you cannot assume that will be the favorable position every time.


Complete nonsense. Missiles can maneuvers in excess of 40g. And what does 'very good jammer' mean?


How?


That is well within AMRAAM kill radius. In other words, the Su 30 will be dead before he even knows where the missile came from. YOU come out of your misconception.


No one here knows the true RCS values of either aircraft, so where did you got more information? If you demand sources from others, you should have no problems providing yours for that claim.


And yet you have no problems making claims about the F-35's RCS value?

Read the following two given link. Just for fanboys like you.

http://www.phoenixthinktank.org/2012/01/f35-congressional-report-analysis/


The Commons: Think of the F-35 as a Senate with wings - Beyond The Commons, Capital Read - Macleans.ca