Broccoli
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STRATCOM Commander rejects high estimates for Chinese nuclear arsenal
- Thread starter Broccoli
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Hyperion
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US national consensus seems to be falling apart at the seams!
Fanling Monk
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LOL It's easy to state an opinion when no one can disprove it.
Martian2
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Same old claim of 20 Chinese DF-5 ICBMs from the 1970s
He said "believes." He doesn't know.
During his interview, he identified his source of information as the intelligence community. We know the intelligence community has completely ignored China's 5,000km Underground Great Wall and thirty years of thermonuclear modernization.
Of course, I believe he knows exactly what he's saying. He is making statements consistent with the western propaganda that China's nuclear forces hasn't changed in thirty years and China still only has the 20 DF-5 ICBMS from the 1970s.
Let's just ignore the DF-31s, DF-31As, JL-2s, and DF-41.
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/china/df-5.htm
"www.globalsecurity.org › WMD › World › China › ICBMs
Jul 24, 2011 – DF-5. The Chinese flight tested a vehicle with ICBM characteristics ... deployed DF-5 force was generally estimated at about 20 missiles. ... R&D on multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRVs) was initiated as early as 1970."
He said "believes." He doesn't know.
During his interview, he identified his source of information as the intelligence community. We know the intelligence community has completely ignored China's 5,000km Underground Great Wall and thirty years of thermonuclear modernization.
Of course, I believe he knows exactly what he's saying. He is making statements consistent with the western propaganda that China's nuclear forces hasn't changed in thirty years and China still only has the 20 DF-5 ICBMS from the 1970s.
Let's just ignore the DF-31s, DF-31As, JL-2s, and DF-41.
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/china/df-5.htm
"www.globalsecurity.org › WMD › World › China › ICBMs
Jul 24, 2011 – DF-5. The Chinese flight tested a vehicle with ICBM characteristics ... deployed DF-5 force was generally estimated at about 20 missiles. ... R&D on multiple independent reentry vehicles (MIRVs) was initiated as early as 1970."
anarchy 99
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western propaganda at its best 
ChineseTiger1986
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Kristensen is an incompetent imbecile, do i need to say more?
Broccoli
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So you are saying that you know more than STRATCOM commander? I bet they have better sources than we do.
And in the article Kristensen did write if this makes you feel better inside.
This forum has a quite large population of ultra-nationalists from all the Asian countries, and most of these people seem to suffer from inferiority complex.
ChineseTiger1986
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Our nuclear arsenal is our own business, and we don't need those western idiot experts to drool all over here.
Martian2
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Hans Kristensen has made two very misleading claims
1. Kristensen claims China had shut down its two above-ground plutonium plants and has limited fissile material for thermonuclear weapons. This is true. However, he completely ignores the existence of underground Chinese nuclear reactors to manufacture plutonium (see citatons below).
Most smart people think China has underground military plutonium plants. Therefore, the idling of above-ground Chinese plutonium plants has no bearing whatsoever on the size of China's thermonuclear fissile material stockpile.
2. Kristensen claims the Chinese DF-31/DF-31A underground site near Kunming is a munitions depot and not an underground structure for ICBMs. This is flagrantly crappy analysis.
In the Georgetown University video, they clearly labeled the side tunnels as Chinese IRBM entrances and the large terminus entrances/exits as suitable for DF-31/DF-31A.
Hans is doing something that is really sneaky. He takes a DF-31/DF-31A and superimposes it onto an IRBM side tunnel and claims the ICBM cannot fit into the underground structure. Hans is cheating and intentionally ignoring the large terminus tunnels, while claiming an ICBM won't fit into a smaller IRBM side tunnel. A very nasty and faulty analysis.
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In the last fifty years, the Soviet Union and the United States have repeatedly threatened China. Do you think the Chinese have multiple operational underground plutonium plants? I think the correct answer is "yes," because China needed secure underground plutonium plants to protect itself from the USSR and the U.S.
China Opens Vast Underground Nuke Plant to Public
"China Opens Vast Underground Nuke Plant to Public
englishnews@chosun.com / Apr. 29, 2010 11:21 KST
China has opened the world's largest underground nuclear weapons plant to the public. According to the official China Daily on Tuesday, China opened the plant dubbed the "816 project" in a mountain in Chongqing's Fuling district to tourists recently. It lies in the world's largest man-made cave, which is 20 km deep.
A 79.6 m-high nine-story building was built in the cave with a total floor area of some 13,000 sq. m. A reactor in the plant produced weapons-grade plutonium 239.
The entire facility consists of 18 caves, 130 roads, tunnels, mine shafts, and weapons and food storage. It is designed to withstand a magnitude 8 earthquake or a nuclear attack.
Construction began with approval by then premier Zhou Enlai in 1967. A total of about 60,000 workers were mobilized during the eight-year construction, which cost 740 million yuan.
In this screen-grab from the China Daily website, visitors look at an underground nuclear plant in Chongqing, China on Tuesday. /Courtesy of China Daily
China decided to build this nuclear facility when relations with the Soviet Union turned sour in the 1960s, but it shut down amid changes in the international situation in 1984. In 2002, Beijing declassified the facility and now the Chongqing city government has opened it to the public.
But the plant is still under strict control, with soldiers standing guard at the entrance. Tourists are allowed to enter only with permits, the daily reported."
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Project 816 - Unfinished plutonium production complex in China
"Project 816 - Unfinished plutonium production complex in China
By Pavel Podvig on June 5, 2010 11:39 AM
Guest contribution by Hui Zhang
China has been known to have two plutonium production facilities - the Jiuquan and Guangyuan complexes. As it turns out, it built another one - The "816 Nuclear Military Facility" is located near Baitao in Fuling District (the entrance to the facility might be about a kilometer north-east of the village). It had never appeared publicly until April 2010, when China opened it as a tourist attraction. The facility, which was built underground, has never been operational - the project approved in 1966, the construction began in 1967, but the project had not been completed and was terminated in 1984. Later it became part of the Jianfeng Chemical Engineering Plant under China's National Nuclear Corporation.
Entrance to the facility. The sign in Chinese above the tunnel reads "816 Underground Nuclear Project".
Reactor hall
Control room
The underground complex was planned to have plutonium production reactors, similar to the reactors that were deployed in Jiuquan and Guangyuan. The complex apparently was supposed to host reprocessing and storage facilities as well."
1. Kristensen claims China had shut down its two above-ground plutonium plants and has limited fissile material for thermonuclear weapons. This is true. However, he completely ignores the existence of underground Chinese nuclear reactors to manufacture plutonium (see citatons below).
Most smart people think China has underground military plutonium plants. Therefore, the idling of above-ground Chinese plutonium plants has no bearing whatsoever on the size of China's thermonuclear fissile material stockpile.
2. Kristensen claims the Chinese DF-31/DF-31A underground site near Kunming is a munitions depot and not an underground structure for ICBMs. This is flagrantly crappy analysis.
In the Georgetown University video, they clearly labeled the side tunnels as Chinese IRBM entrances and the large terminus entrances/exits as suitable for DF-31/DF-31A.
Hans is doing something that is really sneaky. He takes a DF-31/DF-31A and superimposes it onto an IRBM side tunnel and claims the ICBM cannot fit into the underground structure. Hans is cheating and intentionally ignoring the large terminus tunnels, while claiming an ICBM won't fit into a smaller IRBM side tunnel. A very nasty and faulty analysis.
----------
In the last fifty years, the Soviet Union and the United States have repeatedly threatened China. Do you think the Chinese have multiple operational underground plutonium plants? I think the correct answer is "yes," because China needed secure underground plutonium plants to protect itself from the USSR and the U.S.
China Opens Vast Underground Nuke Plant to Public
"China Opens Vast Underground Nuke Plant to Public
englishnews@chosun.com / Apr. 29, 2010 11:21 KST
China has opened the world's largest underground nuclear weapons plant to the public. According to the official China Daily on Tuesday, China opened the plant dubbed the "816 project" in a mountain in Chongqing's Fuling district to tourists recently. It lies in the world's largest man-made cave, which is 20 km deep.
A 79.6 m-high nine-story building was built in the cave with a total floor area of some 13,000 sq. m. A reactor in the plant produced weapons-grade plutonium 239.
The entire facility consists of 18 caves, 130 roads, tunnels, mine shafts, and weapons and food storage. It is designed to withstand a magnitude 8 earthquake or a nuclear attack.
Construction began with approval by then premier Zhou Enlai in 1967. A total of about 60,000 workers were mobilized during the eight-year construction, which cost 740 million yuan.
In this screen-grab from the China Daily website, visitors look at an underground nuclear plant in Chongqing, China on Tuesday. /Courtesy of China Daily
China decided to build this nuclear facility when relations with the Soviet Union turned sour in the 1960s, but it shut down amid changes in the international situation in 1984. In 2002, Beijing declassified the facility and now the Chongqing city government has opened it to the public.
But the plant is still under strict control, with soldiers standing guard at the entrance. Tourists are allowed to enter only with permits, the daily reported."
----------
Project 816 - Unfinished plutonium production complex in China
"Project 816 - Unfinished plutonium production complex in China
By Pavel Podvig on June 5, 2010 11:39 AM
Guest contribution by Hui Zhang
China has been known to have two plutonium production facilities - the Jiuquan and Guangyuan complexes. As it turns out, it built another one - The "816 Nuclear Military Facility" is located near Baitao in Fuling District (the entrance to the facility might be about a kilometer north-east of the village). It had never appeared publicly until April 2010, when China opened it as a tourist attraction. The facility, which was built underground, has never been operational - the project approved in 1966, the construction began in 1967, but the project had not been completed and was terminated in 1984. Later it became part of the Jianfeng Chemical Engineering Plant under China's National Nuclear Corporation.
Entrance to the facility. The sign in Chinese above the tunnel reads "816 Underground Nuclear Project".
Reactor hall
Control room
The underground complex was planned to have plutonium production reactors, similar to the reactors that were deployed in Jiuquan and Guangyuan. The complex apparently was supposed to host reprocessing and storage facilities as well."
ChineseTiger1986
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Hans Kristensen has made two very misleading claims
1. Kristensen claims China had shut down its two above-ground plutonium plants and has limited fissile material for thermonuclear weapons. This is true. However, he completely ignores the existence of underground Chinese nuclear reactors to manufacture plutonium (see citatons below).
Yes, the above-ground Chinese plutonium plants have been idled. However, there is no information on underground Chinese plutonium plants. We know China has built nuclear reactors underground and it would be trivial for China to build plutonium plants underground.
Most smart people think China has underground military plutonium plants. Therefore, the idling of above-ground Chinese plutonium plants has no bearing whatsoever on the size of China's thermonuclear warheads.
2. Kristensen claims the Chinese DF-31/DF-31A underground site near Kunming is a munitions depot and not an underground structure for ICBMs. This is flagrantly crappy analysis.
In the Georgetown University video, they clearly labeled the side tunnels as Chinese IRBM entrances and the large terminus entrances/exits as suitable for DF-31/DF-31A.
Hans is doing something that is really sneaky. He takes a DF-31/DF-31A and superimposes it onto a IRBM side tunnel and claim the ICBM cannot fit into the underground structure. Well, no shite, it's not supposed to. Hans is cheating and intentionally ignoring the large terminus tunnels and claiming an ICBM won't fit into a smaller IRBM side tunnel. A very nasty and incorrect analysis.
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The following underground Chinese plutonium plant was never made operational. However, in the last fifty years, the Soviet Union and the United States have repeatedly threatened China. Do you think the Chinese have operational underground plutonium plants somewhere else? I think the correct answer is "yes," because the USSR and the U.S. kept threatening China for decades.
Project 816 - Unfinished plutonium production complex in China
"Project 816 - Unfinished plutonium production complex in China
By Pavel Podvig on June 5, 2010 11:39 AM
Guest contribution by Hui Zhang
China has been known to have two plutonium production facilities - the Jiuquan and Guangyuan complexes. As it turns out, it built another one - The "816 Nuclear Military Facility" is located near Baitao in Fuling District (the entrance to the facility might be about a kilometer north-east of the village). It had never appeared publicly until April 2010, when China opened it as a tourist attraction. The facility, which was built underground, has never been operational - the project approved in 1966, the construction began in 1967, but the project had not been completed and was terminated in 1984. Later it became part of the Jianfeng Chemical Engineering Plant under China's National Nuclear Corporation.
Entrance to the facility. The sign in Chinese above the tunnel reads "816 Underground Nuclear Project".
Reactor hall
Control room
The underground complex was planned to have plutonium production reactors, similar to the reactors that were deployed in Jiuquan and Guangyuan. The complex apparently was supposed to host reprocessing and storage facilities as well."
----------
China Opens Vast Underground Nuke Plant to Public
"China Opens Vast Underground Nuke Plant to Public
englishnews@chosun.com / Apr. 29, 2010 11:21 KST
China has opened the world's largest underground nuclear weapons plant to the public. According to the official China Daily on Tuesday, China opened the plant dubbed the "816 project" in a mountain in Chongqing's Fuling district to tourists recently. It lies in the world's largest man-made cave, which is 20 km deep.
A 79.6 m-high nine-story building was built in the cave with a total floor area of some 13,000 sq. m. A reactor in the plant produced weapons-grade plutonium 239.
The entire facility consists of 18 caves, 130 roads, tunnels, mine shafts, and weapons and food storage. It is designed to withstand a magnitude 8 earthquake or a nuclear attack.
Construction began with approval by then premier Zhou Enlai in 1967. A total of about 60,000 workers were mobilized during the eight-year construction, which cost 740 million yuan.
In this screen-grab from the China Daily website, visitors look at an underground nuclear plant in Chongqing, China on Tuesday. /Courtesy of China Daily In this screen-grab from the China Daily website, visitors look at an underground nuclear plant in Chongqing, China on Tuesday. /Courtesy of China Daily
China decided to build this nuclear facility when relations with the Soviet Union turned sour in the 1960s, but it shut down amid changes in the international situation in 1984. In 2002, Beijing declassified the facility and now the Chongqing city government has opened it to the public.
But the plant is still under strict control, with soldiers standing guard at the entrance. Tourists are allowed to enter only with permits, the daily reported."
US is overhyping the threat of China against its neighbors, while they keep portraying themselves as the omnipotent GOD, so it is one stone two birds tactic to keep bashing China's true capability, while fooling the smaller Asian nations that to keep messing with China as US will keep backing them up.
